Scotsman.com News – Opinion – Wayward Christian soldiers — The backlash against this sort of crap is going to be something to see. Good reading.
THE enemies of God are all having their say. It’s time to hear The Christian Voice.” The headline flashes out at you from the website. This is the militant evangelical group, Christian Voice, proclaiming its aims. Scroll further down, and you get a picture of what it stands for: it is against abortion, homosexuality and taking the name of the Lord in vain. Blasphemy is high on its list of hates.
Strangely, however, blackmail is not. Yet this is what Christian Voice now stands accused of. Last week it used a blatant threat to persuade the Scottish-based cancer charity, Maggie’s Centres, to turn down a £3,000 donation from the musical Jerry Springer the Opera, which it termed “blasphemous”. It warned that if the charity accepted the money then it would call out its members to picket the charity’s premises and jam its switchboards with protest calls. It would spread the word that the Maggie’s Centres had accepted “tainted” money, thus ensuring that funds from Christian sources dried up. It gave the charity less than 24 hours to agree – which, reluctantly, it did.
This is as close to blackmail as you can get. But there was worse to come
TC…. I don’t believe that the promise of an afterlife in heaven is a motivator for me to be moral and honest in this life. That seems more like bribery or like the stupid child rearing themes of this country “be good and I’ll give you a treat”. I don’t see a difference between…live a moral life so you can go to heaven.
I chose to do moral things because it is what I believe. It is not what someone else tells me that I SHOULD DO or think. I’m guided by what is right… my god is within me, and that is what guides me.
I resent anyone damning my views because they are MY views…and they have no idea what they speak of, when it comes to me. I am guided by the lessons I have learned in this life, and that is all quite personal to me.
I was raised firmly in a non-traditional religion (Native American) and, also in a traditional church. I found churches to be creepy, even as a kid. Too much mumbo jumbo, people on ego trips, and power hungry bickering between the so-called “moral leaders”. Not to mention what we know from history that all the horrors Christians have brought to the world. Christians and all the “we have all the answers and will guide you” self-righteous stuff has caused more pain and suffering in this world than all the bratty kids, boobs on television, and rampant homosexuality in America today.
I think television is lousy. I don’t watch it much. My kids are well behaved, and polite. They chose right from wrong, without being threatened with hell and damnation, or beaten by the Pearl’s rod of Christian teachings. I give to charity by finding people who need help and helping them. I make up my mind on what I should do to not do damage in this world. I don’t shop at Wamart or Target. And, I’ll tell you this, I don’t need some fake “god says” b.s. to guide me. But this does not mean I do not believe in a larger force. I do. Mine has no name, is not spoken, and, is part of everything around me. (It’s not the Zorastic black/white good/evil stuff.)
My beliefs encompass more than the endless words and empty sales pitches the bible passes as “knowledge”. One man adding more words, and more words, each trying to outdo the other, and add their own twisted agenda. I’ve read it, and consider it a badly written mythology. Sorry, just my view.
Unlike most of the bible, and most of the followers that I’ve listened to in the last 40 years….. I honor the life around me…not just humans. I try and create and not destroy. I care about this world….and hate seeing the damage that greed and ugly human desires have done. I don’t see “christians” being that “christian”.
I’m sorry, but I don’t need morals dicated, legislated, or lectured. My morals come from within. I wonder why more people seem to need guidance…. they should look within instead of looking for the easy, shallow answers that someone else provides.
It’s a lot more difficult…..you might want to explore my way, before condemming it. Hmmm?
“why waste time on these topics”
Yeah, let’s all be “nice guys” whilst the “not-so-nice-guy” take control of government, budget, education, media and public morality. Pastor Niemuller said it best: “First they came for the Jews….”
meetsy, I agree with everything you say. Although I was raised Catholic, I do not practice anymore and have a similar attitude towards morality: I’m doing fine on my own. I don’t need to hear a sermon every Sunday to remind myself to be a good person.
All I am saying is ignore the source of the social prescriptions and evaluate them on their own.
Instead of morality, maybe the area I am talking about is better termed “culture.” The behaviors and attitudes that we learn from our parents and pass on to our children. You say “My morals come from within,” but I would disagree. They most likely came from your parents. At least the foundation did, and then you found your own way based on your experiences and thinking. I am talking about aspects of life outside of religion, but which may be influenced by it. The religion is optional.
You pass this information on explicitly and by example, and shape the way your children behave and think. The question is whether we say that is “PERSONAL” and no one else’s business to even _discuss_, or whether we should try to influence people to live lives that are good for them and society and their children. There’s not much we could agree on as American people, but there may be a few things.
Case in point: premarital sex.
The religous say: don’t have sex because you’ll go to hell.
But I think most people would say, don’t have sex because you could have baby and ruin (or severely impact) your life, until you are ready to support yourself and that child (and her mother).
So when a religious person says “don’t have sex”, you assume its about religion and they’re trying to tell you what to do. But maybe they’re thinking about the culture and the country as a whole and the consequences of teenage and out-of-wedlock births. Sure lots of religious people are hypocritical about this; have lots of premaritcal sex and out-of-wedlock babies.
But I think it’s important to discuss these issues, and not dismiss people out of hand because their inspiration is religious.
I’m not sure I trust the Religious Right to not make the Ten Commandments into law. But I share their concern about our culture and so I kindly ignore the implied suffix “and if you don’t, you’ll go to hell” because I don’t think that matters.
The more I think about it, I probably agree with the religious right on fewer that half of their issues. Abortion, Gay Marriage, contraception: I don’t agree with the extreme right viewpoint against these issues.
But there are more important issues in our society that truly affect all of us, such as out-of-wedlock births, divorce, and the poverty those usually cause. Individual cases are understandable and not to be condemned. But the overall trend is bad for society, and these issues are rarely discuss or tackled, precisely because people think of them as matters of religion or personal choice instead of choices and trends that affect society.
T.C.
I can’t agree on the abortion, and gay marriage points. The reality of pre-marital sex, is that with birth control it’s not so much a baby might be concieved, but what emotional damage can be done — in going too far too soon. But, kids looking for acceptance and love (missing it with dominating, dictating parents, or withdrawn and dismissive ones) are more likely to experiment earlier. Children seek out what they need…we all do…and if they can’t find hugging and kissing and someone taking them seriously at home, they’ll turn to the opposite sex. Talk to some kids….you’ll hear it.
It does have long term consequences, emotionally, which is why it’s not “good”. I won’t go into that.
Marriage..well, most children are in foster homes from MARRIED PARENTS. (Many more than from single moms.) The number one reason is drugs, number two too many kids too soon, number three mental illness.
It’s false that kids in foster homes are from single unwed mothers. And, although there are an abundance of couples looking for babies (hence the anti-abortion stance by a lot of agencies)….the truth of it is, the agencies in the middle are charging, on average 25k to place that child with waiting parents. (And, birth mother expenses are ON TOP of that!!) But, in our odd country, many of our black babies are placed in European and Canadian homes, because the agencies get more $$, and because of the stigma in this culture. But, most of these mothers cite religious reasons for carrying the child to term, in the first place. So, religious groups push anti-abortion, but then don’t follow through and care about the offspring of these mothers. I find that to be exceptionally sad. If you are anti-abortion, then it should be YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to raise a child that was unwanted …either at the outset (stayed pregnant because of pressure from religious groups) or a foster child who’s parents had too many children too fast, and broke the camel’s back. So how many children have you adopted/fostered? It is hypocritical to say your beliefs are against a medical termination of pregnancy, but then not support the results.
I favor abortion, when the mother has determined it’s the best choice for her. The emotional, long term consequences of a medical proceedure at 8 weeks, compared to carrying to term (and I do realize that you may have never actually carried a child to term….it’s no cake walk, it’s a very miserable, painful, tiring experience, and it does carry great risk to the emotional well being of the mother….long term).
Meanwhile, I have delt with birth mothers and their issues. I have seen the long term emotional hardship in the decision to carry the child (often because of pressure from peers) and then turn it over to the adoptive parents. It doesn’t end there. It’s a lifelong emotional scar, that doesn’t heal. The anti-aboritonsists always treat it like it’s some little think, like disposing of a litter of puppies. It’s not. It’s caused higher than average psychological problems, drug problems, and depression than the women who made a decision early. More women are destroyed emotionally, and physically by carrying an unwanted child to term…than any damage that has ever happened the medical termination route. It’s more humane for the existing human, in many cases. And, yes, I have met foster kids who wished they had been aborted, instead of going through the 20 or 30 foster homes and the misery that they’ve had in their lives.
And, as I said, one of the leading causes of kids ending up in foster care is tooo many children. When the number of kids under 5 exceeds the number of parents….there is a pretty high likelyhood of 1.) failure of the family (children in foster homes, abused, etc) 2.) poverty 3.) lack of parental support of the children leading to earlier drug use and sex.
So, long term, abortion can be a good option. But, again, it’s personal. Theories are all nice, but really….what happens in real life is the key to us evolving as people. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes kind of thing….
As for marriage…gay or otherwise. Let’s face it, marriage is something we take lightly in this society. How many divorced people do you know? The statistics are something that one out of every two marriages will end in divorce within 5 years. It’s a legal contract….hence why one must go to the courts to disolve it. Only Catholics need to jump through some hoops to also do some hocus pocus through the church (and I’ve BEEN to second and third all white, fluff weddings IN the Catholic Church….how does that work? Must be like fish on friday=hell). So, given we are in a lawyer rich society, one that sues for hot coffee spilled, and slipping on loose grapes on a linoleum floor. We put warnings on kitchen cleanser to NOT PUT IN EYE, nor eat. (Evidently we are either too stupid to figure that out, or the companies need to protect themselves from lawsuits.) So, why NOT let gay individuals have the same legal protections, and the same pain-in-the-ass divorce proceedings, and the same emotional “security”….as anyone else. Heck, it’s not like there aren’t enough lawyers needing the additional money for more divorces. The benefits of allowing the same legal protections — gay or not — only makes sense in this society. I don’t think it demeans straight marriage, because Zza Zza Gabor and Mickey Rooney and Elizabeth Taylor already made marriage a joke. I’m honestly not that interested in being so involved in other people’s business. Let ‘em (and as Will Durst, the comic, promotes “what better way to cut down on gay sex, than gay marriage”. I agree). Heck, if the big fear is that a gay man will want to have sex with your son…better than he be married to another man, and have the threat of a costly, messy divorce for his actions. Seems that the arguments are all wrong on this one. Religious leaders should be embracing this one…..as there is no hell like the court system.
Um, what about my general point?
I only brought up premarital sex – and briefly mentioned in one sentence the other topics – as examples of where we may or may not find common ground on various aspects of American culture.
Is that even possible in today’s political climate?
You seemed to miss my saying I DO NOT agree with the right on Abortion, Gay Marriage, and contraception. Both sides don’t even LISTEN to (let alone understand) each other anymore.
How can we turn that around?
[Not listening to each other is one of the main reasons I didn't vote for Bush, because he will continue to polarize the electorate and society even more. But I don't have much respect for Democrats who let their hatred get in the way of their policy analysis (talking about Congress, not you or your post(s)). Nor for Republicans who let their victory and hubris run roughshode over the other side.]