My Way News
– I hate to revist this whole thing, but now this info makes the fuss even more ridiculous. I only run this because of all the people who kept saying she was there looking fondly at the visitors. Turned out she couldn;t see anything. Poor woman.
“This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons,” said Pinellas-Pasco County Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin, who led the autopsy team. He also said she was blind, because the “vision centers of her brain were dead.”
The results of the autopsy simply serve to underline what was obvious to anyone who did have a fully functioning brain.
And let’s not forget the 12th-hour claims of “a miracle, so help me God….”
Gotta love science.
You shouldn’t apologize for posting this. People need to review the claims– AND THE VIDEO CLIPS REPEATED AD INFINITUM– and compare what they heard and saw then with what forensic science tells us now. Then they need to prepare to vote a lot of Palm Sunday Politicians out of office.
“Poor woman” says it all.
May she, her husband, family and friends find peace.
AND may dubya, Pat Robertson and Frist come to know the true meaning of karma .
After the way the “Culture of Life” demagogue this issue, you really NEED to run a reminder.
I am “pro life” but it has always been pretty clear that this poor woman was dead.
But that was never my personal objection… I think this should have been a private decision between her husband and her doctor. Not the Florida “pro life” lobby or even George Bush!
It was the height of cruel cynical absurdity that the Republicans subpoenaed her to testify! Can you imagine the spectacle had they wheeled her before Congress!?!?
Hind sight is 20/20. The furor was over the fact that her husband refused to do the tests necessary to really know if she was brain dead or not before pulling the plug. He allowed a CT scan but not an MRI or any other tests. He didn’t do due diligence. Wouldn’t you want to know the full story before you pulled the plug on someone? I sure would.
Now we know after the fact that it was the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean it was the right thing to do then. There should have been more information gathering, as in the usual set of tests one does to determine this sort of thing. That wasn’t done and it should have been.
The subpoena was to get the feeding tube reinserted while the case was in court. The main issue that didn’t get mentioned often enough was that the man was living with an another woman who had two children so it’s clear he had a motive against full treatment. It appeared that he was killing his wife. He said this was what she wished, but he only said that after he got the money for treatment. Why didn’t he skip the initial attempts at treatment? Neurologists say you can’t diagnose a persistent vegetative state from an autopsy, but if the conclusions are to be believed, then the money that the husband won in court is fraudulent as there was no eating disorder. The end result is that after winning the money intended for her treatment, he tried to end treatment and keep all the money. The parents’ legal case meant the money went to his lawyers instead, and now there is very little of his ill-gotten gains left.
Pretty good, so far, John. Only one cop-out out of five. Better than I’d expect. You must attract a more literate and objective crowd.
I wonder if the science-and-reality-challenged bots have discovered your posting, though. Every time someone tells me I’m indulging in a conspiracy fugue, I always suggest they post something anti-NRA on their website — and, then, stand aside.
In a lot of ways, I guess the contrived furor over this woman who could have no perception whatsoever of it all — reflects, once again, the incompetence of the “news as entertainment” crowd. Add to that the fact that the religious Right’s hold on the balls of the Republikan Party requires anyone pretending to conservatism to gleefully support governmental intervention in the lives of caring married folks.
More than a little different from the traditional North American flavor of conservatism I grew up in. Dissent was tolerable. Interference in your daily life by Church and/or government was classified as acceptable only for lower life forms, like Congress and other lawyers.
“He didn’t do due diligence”
That is not true. All “due dilligence” had to be done to get the court order in the first place.
You’re just repeating FOX News bull. When she was in the care of the court appointed lawyer for four months the court ordered MRI and the other test be run those exact tests. Plus the husband had those same tests done when the case was presented. ALSO its SOP during the evaluation process when she was in the rehab hospital to do those same tests.
My mother was in the same place as Terri and we did the same things in hope of bringing her “back”, so I know what i’m talking about.
Frank
Please quit with the denial. During all the litigation the courts were convinced that the woman was indeed brain dead. Those on the “in denial” side exploited her condition for their own political gains. They edited over 80 hours of recording for the few seconds seen over and over on television.
At the same time as Bush was returning from his ranch to sign the law, in Texas the courts allowed a hospital to remove life support from a baby the hospital deemed not to have any chance at life. The parents desperately fought the order but couldn’t finance the cost. Where were all the right to lifers on that case. Oh ya, it was Bush that signed into law the right of hospital to remove life support from patients they deemed had no hope of surviving. He never had a word to say to that family.
Tom Delay participated in the decision of his own family to remove life support from HIS OWN FATHER, after an accident. Bill Frist made a medical evaluation based on a few seconds of a video recording, ignoring the vast amount of examination made by physicians that had actually examined Shiavo.
Hind sight will almost always give a better picture, but in this case there had been enough evidence to make a reasonable decision. While there are many tests that could have been done, including doing some exploratory surgery by opening her skull to peek inside, the expert opinion of the legitimate medical community was made. There were no tests that could have satisfied the rabid demands of her parents and the rabble supporting them.
Can you point out just one case where so much furor has been made for one person WHO DID NOT WISH TO BE KEPT ALIVE LIKE THAT. This case was the height of hypocrisy by the entire “Right to Life” community. In doing so, they have lost much of their support among mainstream Americans.
Ed, I actually encourage the nutball posts, so I’m disappointed in this low-turn out of nutballs. I think I’m losing them in the audience. Not sure what to do. Too many reasonable people on here.
Some new right versus left situation will emerge. For some reason the Downing Street stuff has not caught the public’s fancy.I think the public is resigned to being “suckered.” I thought that could be good, but nothing.
Hey! I have a great idea – lets pull the plug on Tom Delay and Bill Frist!
I mean they HAVE most definitively been demonstrated as brain dead. Heck duhbya was born that way.
Let’s see what happens with the Downing St. memo, today. The satellite and cable newsies covered Conyers’ hearing, yesterday. and he brought a petition demanding some honesty with over 500,000 signatures on it to the White House at the end of the day. Not that the dolt inside paid heed.
We really must credit bloggers and folks on the Web who pay attention — as you said — for getting this one some air time.
Meanwhile, the supermarket churches continue to march backwards through the course of history.
Site admin
I think there is a low turnout of nut cases on this issue because the majority of Americans supported Terri’s wishes and believed the prognosis accepted by the court(s). The far right is eating crow over this latest development. I do hand it to you, this topic has created some strong debate and feelings over the last few months.
Pat, Bill Frist didn’t make a diagnosis from a video. He was repeating what a neurologist had told him, and that guy was going off more than a video.
As you say, this level of damage isn’t that unusual. So why did this case make it to the front page instead of others? The parents weren’t particularly politically connected or publicity-capable, and Terri wasn’t in any better shape than others. Florida law wasn’t more helpful, and the legislature wasn’t more interventionist than other states. The reason I see is that the circumstances of the husband’s being all but married to someone else convinced a number of people to get involved.
I said Frist made a medical evaluation; I did not say it was a diagnosis. Second, the neurologist that spoke to Frist had not examined Terri Shaivo either. He had only observed her for a few minutes, from a distance, as he did not have permission to examine her.
Now the quote of what Frist actually said on the floor of the Senate, copied from the National Review, as written.
PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE, WHICH IS WHAT THE COURT HAS RULED — I SAY THAT I QUESTION IT. I QUESTION IT BASED ON A REVIEW OF THE VIDEO FOOTAGE WHICH I SPENT AN HOUR OR SO LOOKING AT LAST NIGHT IN MY OFFICE HERE IN THE CAPITOL. AND THAT FOOTAGE, TO ME, DEPICTS SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT THAN PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/frist200503181027.asp
The law was clear in all of these cases. As the husband, Michael Shaivo had all rights as the guardian to make all the medical decisions. This conclusion was affirmed in every court that looked at the case.
Why did this case make such headlines and not the Texas Baby case? It was simply because Terri Shaivo was a young white woman and the Texas Baby was black. People are killed and abducted everyday in this country. We have seen how much attention has been given to people like Terri Shaivo, Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsey, Natalee Holloway, and even a runaway Bride. They are all white, young women or girls. Can you name just one older black person who has disappeared and gotten such nation wide attention?
AB CD
So, I guess, since you KNOW IT ALL…you can tell us how you know all these things about Terri and what her husband was up to…because you know them, first hand? They’re your friends, right? You’re related to them? Oh wait…you don’t know them personally, right? So, tell me, what gives?
Tell me how do you KNOW THIS STUFF? Did you read it in the newspaper, hear it on TV, listen to someone right wind talk show radio ? So, what you KNOW is second-hand, at best, but more likely third, fourth, fifth…..or, perhaps, a totally made up distortion of the real “facts”. You gulped down the pablum that was fed to you, and you ate it without even tasting it to figure out if it was. Heck, you don’t know if it was honey or horse poop. That’s the problem…..it was a bunch of distortions played out in the media…about a real as the reality shows on Fox.
You are not in any place to KNOW, only project and assume. RIght? Come on, fess up. You don’t know any of this first hand, do you?
Please take this into account when you start spouting off about this stuff.
What you claim to “know” is what one side or the other promoted. (…and, if you hang out in courtrooms long enough…the truth is always somewhere in the MIDDLE, never on one side or the other. )
So, perhaps you are projecting from some personal situation that had similar issues. Did YOUR wife fall ill, and slip into a coma for….a decade and a half? Did YOUR inlaws fight you tooth and nail? Did you have the agony of being in grief limbo?
You are a bystander here…..just as I am. I can’t take sides. All I can say…is if it’s ME, put me down. If it’s my daughter, son, husband, mother, father…..let me make the decision that I feel is BEST for them — given the situation at the time. It’s a personal decision…not a public one. It sure as HELL isn’t a government issue. It’s about my personal spiritual and moral beliefs…and how I interpret them. Not, yours, not Jeb’s not some politico’s looking to make points to get re-elected next election.
Have you ever had a loved one hanging between life and death? Have you? Seems to me you must not have, or you’d understand that the pontificating you are doing is so inhumane it’s unreal. It’s not your judgement to make, don’t you get that? It was a matter for the family members, and then the court…..that’s it.
This was a terrible misuse of the press, of the political arena, and of individual chatter. Give the family, the husband, the poor woman some dignity, and quit hashing this out. It’s invasive, and inhuman. Let it rest. Find other things to stick your nose into.
Pat,
There may not be any more to it than that. How sad it is….that the media will put all the focus on whites, and ignore anyone else. I find it sad.
Right now, in Berkeley, a black girl is missing (from what I read on fliers on telephone poles) and there hasn’t been ONE news report on it.
I have to agree with you, as sad as that makes me.
“I’m disappointed in this low-turn out of nutballs. I think I’m losing them in the audience. Not sure what to do.” — JCD
I just checked the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services Endangered Species list, and I found no shortage of nutballs inhabiting dvorak.org/blog.
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P.S. Would it be efficacious for you to write a column for the Weekly World News? Might attract some attention.
Latest Headline: Nazi UFOs To Attack U.S.
http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/politics/61692
( I confess: I just love the crap out of WWN.)
Meetsy, of course I don’t know that these are facts, but the appearance was there, and that’s why this case showed up instead of others. The basic problem is that it looks like someone using the law to kill his wife, and approximately half the country or more didn’t seem to care. You say put you down, let you make the decision if it’s a family member. However, in thsi case, it’s not clear that she ever made such a decision. After getting some money for treatment in a lawsuit, the husband then says, his wife never wanted treatment in such a condition, and the courts decided to take his word for it and let him kill his wife.