Brazil’s Energy Initiatives, First Hand

When oil prices fell in the 80s I saw all kinds of US journalists basically saying neah nah Brazil! It never seemed to cross their mind as to what a non renewable resource is.

it is good that 80% of all cars can use it right away. certain sorts of biodiesel requires refitting the car with new gaskets and filters because the acid from the plants that have been converted will erode them.

i am glad to tell by the way, that in germany there is a biodiesel infrastructure all over the country and that my dad runs his 1.9 turbo-diesel volkswagen engine since 1999 on bio which is at roughly 150000km (100000miles) right now – or even more – without a glitch connected to the fuel it uses. volkswagen were one of the first (as to my understanding) who built eninges fitted with biodiesel proof gaskets and stuff right away. and it goes like a rocket!

plus bio diesel is cheaper because you don’t pay mineral-oil-taxes on it but it is climbing at the same rate as normal diesel, as if the price of crops is connected to the barrel oil… hm.

Thanks, I’m brazilian. Now we have flex-fuel car models running in our country.

Its not that simple.

While alcohol has beem used in cars here in Brazil for decades, its economic vantage is still a matter of debate. You have to factor in that you get a lower milage per gallon with alcohol and that right now we are using oil to produce alcohol! For example, the trucks that take the sugar cane to the industries run on diesel.

To get the automotive alcohol going, brazilian goverment has had to subsidize alcohol production. For example, when gasoline in Brazil has a large percentage of alcohol added, plus a tax that goes to alcohol producers. Thank to this (and the patience of the first buyers) a lot of technical problems in the cars have beem solved.

Alcohol may be the fuel for the future, but right now it is still cheaper to run on gasoline.

I agree with Daniel – when I lived in Brasil in the 80’s I remember thinking it was weird how often the car needed refueling. Is it possible to redesign or convert automobile engines to be more efficient using this fuel mixture?

Make yourself knowledgeable on the topic if you’re going to post!

The ethanol used in the US is made from corn.

The ethanol used in Brazil is made from sugar.

It takes more energy to make one gallon of (corn) ethanol than the return it gives. It also takes fossil fuels to make the (corn) ethanol.

Just because the problem seems simple, it’s not always a simple problem or has a simple solution.

For those people who immediately say “Let’s use sugar to make ethanol then”. Keep in mind that sugar prices are regulated (no not just the Bush administration).

re #7 and #9

And big oil isn’t subsidized? Big oil gets so much money from the G right now that I think its specious to argue economics at this point.

Oh yes, there will be problems with it, I’m sure. A whole new design cycle is likely to happen, trying to make it reliable, safe to use, etc.
Somehow making ethanol more energy dense (if it were possible) would be a way to not have to have physically more of it on board. And yes, there’s energy penalty ‘gotchas’ all over the place.

Interesting to compare the various energy densities of fuels:

Check out hydrogen. Too bad you’d have to drag around a balloon full of the stuff.in its natural state.

alcohol has a higher flashpoint than gasoline which makes it suitable for high-compression engines such as race cars. Anyone over 40 should remember the term engine “knock” or “pre-ignition” which is what premium fuel was designed to solve.

Vehicles “get by” with lower octane (more likely to “ping”) because knock sensors in modern electronic engine systems provide an “early warning” to the logic module which then retards your engine’s timing.

Retarded timing results in less fuel efficiency, especially during acceleration.

If an engine was built with much higher compression ratios it would have more power per gallon consumed. More power results in better mpg.

Here’s an idea: Go back to using turbochargers on 4-cylinder engines like Chrysler did in the 1980’s to raise and vary engine compression rates as needed. Using premium fuel, my Shelby Daytona would boost 15psi on a regular basis. What a ride! I had a car that would outrun almost eveything on the road and still got 35+ mpg. Once our local deputy sheriff borrowed it. Upon his return, he threatened to write me a ticket because he was SURE I deserved one.

Until we get the windmills churning, the methane extraced from the ocean floor, and the solar satellites flying here is the quick fix I propose:

1) boost compression ratios of engines to take advantage of high octane fuels by using turbochargers or superchargers. Of course, use smaller and lighter engines in proportion.
2) increase octane levels of gasoline to take advantage of the “knock-resistant” properties of alcohol.
3) grow and processing a LOT of switchgrass on the (new) old family farms.

The big minus to alcohol:
Cold weather starting!!!
Better hide a can of Ether under the front seat!

Biodiesel at the pump! Amazing!
The Brazilians have it right. We could too.

When Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine back in 1898, he worked closely with George Washington Carver to make this new invention, unveiled at the 1900 World’s Fair, able to be run on peanut oil, mixed with a small amount of grain alcohol.

Carver was working on new uses for seed oils, and met Diesel. The rest is history. We should be looking at seed oils more as a source of renewable, less polluting energy, and this could be an excellent source.

I love Biodiesels. A friend has an old Mercedes he runs on waste oil, or home made biodiesel, and it smells like popcorn going down the road. A much nicer odor than that of the current petroleum based product. And no smoke, just water vapor! Much lower emissions too. I just wish they would make it available in the States.