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	<title>Comments on: Brazil&#8217;s Energy Initiatives, First Hand</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: Anderson E Santo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134626</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson E Santo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134626</guid>
		<description>Cold weather starting ??

All the flex-fuel vehicles possess a small auxiliary gasoline tank.  The gasoline is used automatically in low temperatures, only for the start of the engine. 

(with help of google language tools)

Anderson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cold weather starting ??</p>
<p>All the flex-fuel vehicles possess a small auxiliary gasoline tank.  The gasoline is used automatically in low temperatures, only for the start of the engine. </p>
<p>(with help of google language tools)</p>
<p>Anderson</p>
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		<title>By: Roc Rizzo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134571</link>
		<dc:creator>Roc Rizzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134571</guid>
		<description>Biodiesel at the pump! Amazing!
The Brazilians have it right.  We could too.  

When Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine back in 1898, he worked closely with George Washington Carver to make this new invention, unveiled at the 1900 World&#039;s Fair, able to be run on peanut oil, mixed with a small amount of grain alcohol.  

Carver was working on new uses for seed oils, and met Diesel.  The rest is history.  We should be looking at seed oils more as a source of renewable, less polluting energy, and this could be an excellent source.  

I love Biodiesels.  A friend has an old Mercedes he runs on waste oil, or home made biodiesel, and it smells like popcorn going down the road.  A much nicer odor than that of the current petroleum based product.  And no smoke, just water vapor!  Much lower emissions too.  I just wish they would make it available in the States.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biodiesel at the pump! Amazing!<br />
The Brazilians have it right.  We could too.  </p>
<p>When Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine back in 1898, he worked closely with George Washington Carver to make this new invention, unveiled at the 1900 World&#8217;s Fair, able to be run on peanut oil, mixed with a small amount of grain alcohol.  </p>
<p>Carver was working on new uses for seed oils, and met Diesel.  The rest is history.  We should be looking at seed oils more as a source of renewable, less polluting energy, and this could be an excellent source.  </p>
<p>I love Biodiesels.  A friend has an old Mercedes he runs on waste oil, or home made biodiesel, and it smells like popcorn going down the road.  A much nicer odor than that of the current petroleum based product.  And no smoke, just water vapor!  Much lower emissions too.  I just wish they would make it available in the States.</p>
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		<title>By: Eideard</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134301</link>
		<dc:creator>Eideard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134301</guid>
		<description>cheese -- I would just add a bump to twin turbos -- get rid of turbo lag.  Americans don&#039;t know how to drive, anyway.  They&#039;d kill themselves trying to get out of the way of something coming their way.  Can you imagine a nation with no perception of defensive driving being able to anticipate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cheese &#8212; I would just add a bump to twin turbos &#8212; get rid of turbo lag.  Americans don&#8217;t know how to drive, anyway.  They&#8217;d kill themselves trying to get out of the way of something coming their way.  Can you imagine a nation with no perception of defensive driving being able to anticipate?</p>
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		<title>By: cheese</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134298</link>
		<dc:creator>cheese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134298</guid>
		<description>alcohol has a higher flashpoint than gasoline which makes it suitable for high-compression engines such as race cars.  Anyone over 40  should remember the term engine &quot;knock&quot; or &quot;pre-ignition&quot; which is what premium fuel was designed to solve.  

Vehicles &quot;get by&quot; with lower octane (more likely to &quot;ping&quot;)  because knock sensors in modern electronic engine systems provide an &quot;early warning&quot; to the logic module which then retards your engine&#039;s timing.  

Retarded timing results in less  fuel efficiency, especially during acceleration.

If an engine was built with much higher compression ratios it would have more power per gallon consumed.  More power results in better mpg.  

Here&#039;s an idea: Go back to using turbochargers on 4-cylinder engines  like Chrysler did in the 1980&#039;s to raise and vary engine compression rates as needed.  Using premium fuel,  my Shelby Daytona would boost 15psi on a regular basis.  What a ride!  I had a car that would outrun almost eveything on the road and still got 35+ mpg.  Once our local deputy sheriff borrowed it.  Upon his return, he threatened to write me a ticket because he was SURE I deserved one.

Until we get the windmills churning, the methane extraced from the ocean floor, and the solar satellites flying here is the quick fix I propose:

1) boost compression ratios of engines to take advantage of high octane fuels by using turbochargers or superchargers.  Of course, use smaller and lighter engines in proportion.
2) increase octane levels of gasoline to take advantage of the &quot;knock-resistant&quot; properties of alcohol. 
3) grow and processing a LOT of switchgrass on the (new) old family farms.

The big minus to alcohol:
Cold weather starting!!!  
Better hide a can of Ether under the front seat!  :-)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alcohol has a higher flashpoint than gasoline which makes it suitable for high-compression engines such as race cars.  Anyone over 40  should remember the term engine &#8220;knock&#8221; or &#8220;pre-ignition&#8221; which is what premium fuel was designed to solve.  </p>
<p>Vehicles &#8220;get by&#8221; with lower octane (more likely to &#8220;ping&#8221;)  because knock sensors in modern electronic engine systems provide an &#8220;early warning&#8221; to the logic module which then retards your engine&#8217;s timing.  </p>
<p>Retarded timing results in less  fuel efficiency, especially during acceleration.</p>
<p>If an engine was built with much higher compression ratios it would have more power per gallon consumed.  More power results in better mpg.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an idea: Go back to using turbochargers on 4-cylinder engines  like Chrysler did in the 1980&#8242;s to raise and vary engine compression rates as needed.  Using premium fuel,  my Shelby Daytona would boost 15psi on a regular basis.  What a ride!  I had a car that would outrun almost eveything on the road and still got 35+ mpg.  Once our local deputy sheriff borrowed it.  Upon his return, he threatened to write me a ticket because he was SURE I deserved one.</p>
<p>Until we get the windmills churning, the methane extraced from the ocean floor, and the solar satellites flying here is the quick fix I propose:</p>
<p>1) boost compression ratios of engines to take advantage of high octane fuels by using turbochargers or superchargers.  Of course, use smaller and lighter engines in proportion.<br />
2) increase octane levels of gasoline to take advantage of the &#8220;knock-resistant&#8221; properties of alcohol.<br />
3) grow and processing a LOT of switchgrass on the (new) old family farms.</p>
<p>The big minus to alcohol:<br />
Cold weather starting!!!<br />
Better hide a can of Ether under the front seat!  <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134247</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134247</guid>
		<description>Brazil is so far ahead of us, I&#039;m sure they will be the first to take the leap to hydrogen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brazil is so far ahead of us, I&#8217;m sure they will be the first to take the leap to hydrogen!</p>
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		<title>By: Pterocat</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134114</link>
		<dc:creator>Pterocat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134114</guid>
		<description>Oh yes, there will be problems with it, I&#039;m sure.  A whole new design cycle is likely  to happen, trying to make it reliable, safe to use, etc.
Somehow making ethanol more energy dense (if it were possible) would be a way to not have to have physically more of it on board.  And yes, there&#039;s energy penalty &#039;gotchas&#039; all over the place.

Interesting to compare the various energy densities of fuels:
&lt;a href=&quot;hypertextbook.com/physics/matter/energy-chemical/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
Check out hydrogen.  Too bad you&#039;d have to drag around a balloon full of the stuff.in its natural state.
&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yes, there will be problems with it, I&#8217;m sure.  A whole new design cycle is likely  to happen, trying to make it reliable, safe to use, etc.<br />
Somehow making ethanol more energy dense (if it were possible) would be a way to not have to have physically more of it on board.  And yes, there&#8217;s energy penalty &#8216;gotchas&#8217; all over the place.</p>
<p>Interesting to compare the various energy densities of fuels:<br />
<a href="hypertextbook.com/physics/matter/energy-chemical/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><br />
Check out hydrogen.  Too bad you&#8217;d have to drag around a balloon full of the stuff.in its natural state.<br />
</a></p>
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		<title>By: rwilliams254</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134095</link>
		<dc:creator>rwilliams254</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134095</guid>
		<description>It took me all of 30 seconds in a google search to find decent information on the breakdown, by percentage, of what gas at the pump costs.  Taxes: 27%+

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/02/02/090904.php

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It took me all of 30 seconds in a google search to find decent information on the breakdown, by percentage, of what gas at the pump costs.  Taxes: 27%+</p>
<p><a href="http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/02/02/090904.php" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/02/02/090904.php' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/02/02/090904.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sounds The Alarm</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134035</link>
		<dc:creator>Sounds The Alarm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134035</guid>
		<description>re #7 and #9

And big oil isn&#039;t subsidized?  Big oil gets so much money from the G right now that I think its specious to argue economics at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re #7 and #9</p>
<p>And big oil isn&#8217;t subsidized?  Big oil gets so much money from the G right now that I think its specious to argue economics at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: jay lueckel</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134028</link>
		<dc:creator>jay lueckel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134028</guid>
		<description>you  may want to check out this article in BusinessWeek On-line about the downside issues of ethanol &amp; e85 being pushed (for instance as the lead-in in the latest issue of Wired Magazine) - it helps the big 3 meet EPA regs but really may just create a bigger smog problem - this kills places like Denver or Baton Rouge with temperature  inversion problems and/or localized geological characteristics that keep the ozone in place

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_insight

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you  may want to check out this article in BusinessWeek On-line about the downside issues of ethanol &amp; e85 being pushed (for instance as the lead-in in the latest issue of Wired Magazine) &#8211; it helps the big 3 meet EPA regs but really may just create a bigger smog problem &#8211; this kills places like Denver or Baton Rouge with temperature  inversion problems and/or localized geological characteristics that keep the ozone in place</p>
<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_insight" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_insight' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_insight</a></p>
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		<title>By: rwilliams254</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-134012</link>
		<dc:creator>rwilliams254</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-134012</guid>
		<description>Make yourself knowledgeable on the topic if you&#039;re going to post!  

The ethanol used in the US is made from corn.

The ethanol used in Brazil is made from sugar.

It takes more energy to make one gallon of (corn) ethanol than the return it gives.   It also takes fossil fuels to make the (corn) ethanol.

Just because the problem seems simple, it&#039;s not always a simple problem or has a simple solution.

For those people who immediately say &quot;Let&#039;s use sugar to make ethanol then&quot;.  Keep in mind that sugar prices are regulated (no not just the Bush administration).

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make yourself knowledgeable on the topic if you&#8217;re going to post!  </p>
<p>The ethanol used in the US is made from corn.</p>
<p>The ethanol used in Brazil is made from sugar.</p>
<p>It takes more energy to make one gallon of (corn) ethanol than the return it gives.   It also takes fossil fuels to make the (corn) ethanol.</p>
<p>Just because the problem seems simple, it&#8217;s not always a simple problem or has a simple solution.</p>
<p>For those people who immediately say &#8220;Let&#8217;s use sugar to make ethanol then&#8221;.  Keep in mind that sugar prices are regulated (no not just the Bush administration).</p>
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		<title>By: moss</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-133982</link>
		<dc:creator>moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-133982</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re missing the economic point, folks.  Yes, alcohol diminishes mileage -- as much as 25%.  But, you&#039;re consuming a renewable resource.

Worrying about how much diesel is consumed transporting the alchol is answered by the same quality -- use biodiesel instead.  And, the, consumption rate is about the same.

But, take off the blinders when you look at the whole question and consider what is being saved by reduction in imported oil.  For that matter, even reducing domestic oil consumption is useful.  They are fixed reserves -- not renewable in anything less than geologic time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re missing the economic point, folks.  Yes, alcohol diminishes mileage &#8212; as much as 25%.  But, you&#8217;re consuming a renewable resource.</p>
<p>Worrying about how much diesel is consumed transporting the alchol is answered by the same quality &#8212; use biodiesel instead.  And, the, consumption rate is about the same.</p>
<p>But, take off the blinders when you look at the whole question and consider what is being saved by reduction in imported oil.  For that matter, even reducing domestic oil consumption is useful.  They are fixed reserves &#8212; not renewable in anything less than geologic time.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane Ensey</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-133975</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane Ensey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-133975</guid>
		<description>I agree with Daniel - when I lived in Brasil in the 80&#039;s I remember thinking it was weird how often the car needed refueling.  Is it possible to redesign or convert automobile engines to be more efficient using this fuel mixture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Daniel &#8211; when I lived in Brasil in the 80&#8242;s I remember thinking it was weird how often the car needed refueling.  Is it possible to redesign or convert automobile engines to be more efficient using this fuel mixture?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-133957</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-133957</guid>
		<description>FlexPower cars accounted for more than 50% of sales in Brazil last year. They can run on Mehtanol, Unleaded or a mixture of both depending on price etc. The handbook with the car explains when to use which fuel in order to save as much money as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FlexPower cars accounted for more than 50% of sales in Brazil last year. They can run on Mehtanol, Unleaded or a mixture of both depending on price etc. The handbook with the car explains when to use which fuel in order to save as much money as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-133954</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-133954</guid>
		<description>Its not that simple.

While alcohol has beem used in cars here in Brazil for decades, its economic vantage is still a matter of debate. You have to factor in that you get a lower milage per gallon with alcohol and that right now we are using oil to produce alcohol! For example, the trucks that take the sugar cane to the industries run on diesel.

To get the automotive alcohol going, brazilian goverment has had to subsidize alcohol production. For example, when gasoline in Brazil has a large percentage of alcohol added, plus a tax that goes to alcohol producers. Thank to this (and the patience of the first buyers) a lot of technical problems in the cars have beem solved.

Alcohol may be the fuel for the future, but right now it is still cheaper to run on gasoline.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not that simple.</p>
<p>While alcohol has beem used in cars here in Brazil for decades, its economic vantage is still a matter of debate. You have to factor in that you get a lower milage per gallon with alcohol and that right now we are using oil to produce alcohol! For example, the trucks that take the sugar cane to the industries run on diesel.</p>
<p>To get the automotive alcohol going, brazilian goverment has had to subsidize alcohol production. For example, when gasoline in Brazil has a large percentage of alcohol added, plus a tax that goes to alcohol producers. Thank to this (and the patience of the first buyers) a lot of technical problems in the cars have beem solved.</p>
<p>Alcohol may be the fuel for the future, but right now it is still cheaper to run on gasoline.</p>
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		<title>By: Eideard</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/04/26/brazils-energy-initiatives-first-hand/comment-page-1/#comment-133946</link>
		<dc:creator>Eideard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5157#comment-133946</guid>
		<description>Guys, there is NO technical reason for being underpowered with any of these alternative fuels.  Folks have been racing methanol-powered cars for decades.  All IRL and CART races [like, Indianapolis] are methanol-fueled.  The main reason for the switch was that methanol fires are easier to extinguish -- you can use water.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, there is NO technical reason for being underpowered with any of these alternative fuels.  Folks have been racing methanol-powered cars for decades.  All IRL and CART races [like, Indianapolis] are methanol-fueled.  The main reason for the switch was that methanol fires are easier to extinguish &#8212; you can use water.</p>
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