Comments on: EU demands that Bush reveal secret prison locations http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/ General interest observations and true web-log. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:04:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Firestarter http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-286079 Firestarter Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:22:22 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-286079 syngensmyth, I guess you've never been wrongfully arrested. Scary as all getout when you realize the authorities who are sworn to protect you are planning to put you away. The police and federal law enforcement agents want to arrest the bad people, and protect good people. But at first glace at a scene, how do you differentiate? Due process saved my butt before, a case where I was in the vicinity of the guilty, so therefore I too was guilty in the eyes of the officers. That is what is scary about the secret prisions. If due process (charging with a crime, followed by a court hearing) isn't needed, then why have it, even for the "petty" crimes? No one is truly innocent. syngensmyth, I guess you’ve never been wrongfully arrested. Scary as all getout when you realize the authorities who are sworn to protect you are planning to put you away. The police and federal law enforcement agents want to arrest the bad people, and protect good people. But at first glace at a scene, how do you differentiate?

Due process saved my butt before, a case where I was in the vicinity of the guilty, so therefore I too was guilty in the eyes of the officers. That is what is scary about the secret prisions. If due process (charging with a crime, followed by a court hearing) isn’t needed, then why have it, even for the “petty” crimes? No one is truly innocent.

]]> By: Mike Voice http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285542 Mike Voice Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:41:02 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285542 12 <i>I really don’t get all this hand wrenching over terrorists in prison, secret or not.</i> Because this isn't about "terrorists in prison", this is about our complete lack of plausible deniability. We say the "worst of the worst" are kept at Gitmo, then announce that is not true [but hey, we're <i>transferring</i> them to Gitmo - as we speak!] We say we don't do renditions, then complain when it is revealed that we do. We say we don't have secret prisons, then admit we do... Then we say: "We don't torture..." and "We were going to give them military tribunals - swear to God! - but the Supreme Court screwed us on that." Right. They've been held in secret for <i>years</i>, and <b>now</b> - in the lead-up to an election - we have an <i>urgent</i> need for Congress to make tribunals legal? Or what? They are eligible for parole? ;) 12 I really don’t get all this hand wrenching over terrorists in prison, secret or not.

Because this isn’t about “terrorists in prison”, this is about our complete lack of plausible deniability.

We say the “worst of the worst” are kept at Gitmo, then announce that is not true [but hey, we're transferring them to Gitmo - as we speak!]

We say we don’t do renditions, then complain when it is revealed that we do.

We say we don’t have secret prisons, then admit we do…

Then we say:

“We don’t torture…”

and

“We were going to give them military tribunals – swear to God! – but the Supreme Court screwed us on that.”

Right.

They’ve been held in secret for years, and now – in the lead-up to an election – we have an urgent need for Congress to make tribunals legal?

Or what? They are eligible for parole? ;)

]]> By: AB CD http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285540 AB CD Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:40:59 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285540 shut down Guantanamo and send the tenants to the countries that are complaining. shut down Guantanamo and send the tenants to the countries that are complaining.

]]> By: syngensmyth http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285455 syngensmyth Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:21:28 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285455 I really don't get all this hand wrenching over terrorists in prison, secret or not. Ya, ya, I know, "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". That works for purse snatchers, car thieves and maybe even angry postal employees or pedophiles, but organized groups trained and hell bent on destroying large groups of civilians? Apparently some think George Bush is rounding up elementary school teachers and real estate salesmen and incarcerating them in secret. I don't see it. Now, if he will pick up a few lawyers ... I really don’t get all this hand wrenching over terrorists in prison, secret or not. Ya, ya, I know, “Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer”. That works for purse snatchers, car thieves and maybe even angry postal employees or pedophiles, but organized groups trained and hell bent on destroying large groups of civilians?

Apparently some think George Bush is rounding up elementary school teachers and real estate salesmen and incarcerating them in secret. I don’t see it. Now, if he will pick up a few lawyers …

]]> By: John S http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285214 John S Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:46:53 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285214 The current U.S. administration wants to export American values to other countries. While exporting "freedom", "democracy" and "capatilism" will they also export the "need for secret prisons". I seem to remember former the former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir having concerns about the methods Israel defended itself. The fear of losing the values that are essential to being who you are in order to defend yourself from enemy forces seems as relevant now as ever. Throwing out or sidestepping beliefs may or may not win you things in the short term, but what is left when and if the enemy is defeated. Can anyone believe in things that have been shown not to work in the past. Look at the countries who taste democracy only to discard it when the security they fealt during Totalitarian rule did not come with Democracy. i.e. many countries of the former Soviet block. John The current U.S. administration wants to export American values to other countries. While exporting “freedom”, “democracy” and “capatilism” will they also export the “need for secret prisons”. I seem to remember former the former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir having concerns about the methods Israel defended itself. The fear of losing the values that are essential to being who you are in order to defend yourself from enemy forces seems as relevant now as ever. Throwing out or sidestepping beliefs may or may not win you things in the short term, but what is left when and if the enemy is defeated. Can anyone believe in things that have been shown not to work in the past. Look at the countries who taste democracy only to discard it when the security they fealt during Totalitarian rule did not come with Democracy. i.e. many countries of the former Soviet block.

John

]]> By: doug http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285143 doug Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:22:08 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285143 wait a minute - wasn't revealing the existance of these prisons basically treasonous when a reporter did it? how can we win the war on terror when our own president is treacherously revealing our most valuable secrets?!? we need another leak investigation - who in the White House or CIA spilled the beans to Dubya? wait a minute – wasn’t revealing the existance of these prisons basically treasonous when a reporter did it? how can we win the war on terror when our own president is treacherously revealing our most valuable secrets?!?

we need another leak investigation – who in the White House or CIA spilled the beans to Dubya?

]]> By: Mike Voice http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-285048 Mike Voice Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:50:08 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-285048 I guess <i>now</i> the "worst of the worst" are in Gitmo... or are there still more? And if there are more, how close will the pre-election public opinion polls have to be for us to be informed of their existence? We've been holding these guys for <i>years</i>, and we need Congress to pass tribunal authorization legislation <i>right f'ing</i><b>now</b>??? They can't rot in Gitmo for a year or two?? Oh! That's right, Dubya has gone on the record as supporting the closing of Gitmo.... I guess now the “worst of the worst” are in Gitmo… or are there still more?

And if there are more, how close will the pre-election public opinion polls have to be for us to be informed of their existence?

We’ve been holding these guys for years, and we need Congress to pass tribunal authorization legislation right f’ingnow???

They can’t rot in Gitmo for a year or two?? Oh! That’s right, Dubya has gone on the record as supporting the closing of Gitmo….

]]> By: Walter http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284611 Walter Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:39:26 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284611 Remember, the president can do no wrong in the name of good. I'm rather disgusted with our current administration. I look forward to the elections in November so the Democrats can get control of the Congress back with numbers to impeach both Bush and Cheney! Remember, the president can do no wrong in the name of good.

I’m rather disgusted with our current administration. I look forward to the elections in November so the Democrats can get control of the Congress back with numbers to impeach both Bush and Cheney!

]]> By: Sounds the Alarm http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284462 Sounds the Alarm Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:30:04 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284462 "Just how many wrong actions can a President do or authorize before he gets an impeachment trial" A blow job - something this president is in desperate need of. Now all you neocons let me hear your excuses on how the Bush "really didn't lie" when he said we don't use overseas detention facilities. “Just how many wrong actions can a President do or authorize before he gets an impeachment trial”

A blow job – something this president is in desperate need of.

Now all you neocons let me hear your excuses on how the Bush “really didn’t lie” when he said we don’t use overseas detention facilities.

]]> By: Mr. H. Fusion http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284368 Mr. H. Fusion Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:52:59 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284368 When the good guys do the same crap as the bad guys, then there is no difference. They all become criminals. I am very afraid that Bush will suddenly give blanket pardons to everyone that has broken the law during his war on terror. On the one hand, that would recognize the actions of Bush and company are illegal and second, cover for ever from prying eyes the true depth of depravity this administration has taken our country to. Would the Secret Service accompany Bush and Cheney if they ever went to jail? When the good guys do the same crap as the bad guys, then there is no difference. They all become criminals.

I am very afraid that Bush will suddenly give blanket pardons to everyone that has broken the law during his war on terror. On the one hand, that would recognize the actions of Bush and company are illegal and second, cover for ever from prying eyes the true depth of depravity this administration has taken our country to.

Would the Secret Service accompany Bush and Cheney if they ever went to jail?

]]> By: bac http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284364 bac Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:44:43 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284364 Just how many wrong actions can a President do or authorize before he gets an impeachment trial? Just how many wrong actions can a President do or authorize before he gets an impeachment trial?

]]> By: James Hill http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284351 James Hill Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:20:06 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284351 Like Bush can remember all of that... Ha! Like Bush can remember all of that… Ha!

]]> By: Max Bell http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284341 Max Bell Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:07:32 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284341 Yeah, this isn't exactly putting litter in it's place, like Superman taught us, is it? Still, the 2008 election will be determined by a single question: are people as afraid now as they were four years ago? If the answer is yes, even if it's because our borders are being overrun by North Americans or because the current oil crisis threatens our supply of cheap plastic knick-knacks, then we'll get another group of bozos who don't care if anyone notices they're not wearing any clothes so long as they don't notice their hand in the till. If the answer is no, then it mostly depends on which party is the least motivated to get out and vote. Yeah, this isn’t exactly putting litter in it’s place, like Superman taught us, is it?

Still, the 2008 election will be determined by a single question: are people as afraid now as they were four years ago? If the answer is yes, even if it’s because our borders are being overrun by North Americans or because the current oil crisis threatens our supply of cheap plastic knick-knacks, then we’ll get another group of bozos who don’t care if anyone notices they’re not wearing any clothes so long as they don’t notice their hand in the till.

If the answer is no, then it mostly depends on which party is the least motivated to get out and vote.

]]> By: Firestarter http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284287 Firestarter Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:45:04 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284287 When the US declares a "war" on something, it doesn't seem to suffer anything to get in the way. Like the constitution, the courts, due process, etc. But that's how you need to fight the war on drugs and the war on terror. What liberties will get in the way of a war on hate, or a war on societal disintegration? When the US declares a “war” on something, it doesn’t seem to suffer anything to get in the way.

Like the constitution, the courts, due process, etc. But that’s how you need to fight the war on drugs and the war on terror.

What liberties will get in the way of a war on hate, or a war on societal disintegration?

]]> By: RTaylor http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/09/07/eu-demands-that-bush-reveal-secret-prison-locations/comment-page-1/#comment-284280 RTaylor Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:43:00 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6961#comment-284280 I guess you do what you have to do, but you need to sit down and shut up about other countries and human rights abuse. I guess you do what you have to do, but you need to sit down and shut up about other countries and human rights abuse.

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