So if the easy to eat banana is supposed to prove the existence of God, what exactly does the artichoke prove?
Update: There is some suggestion in the comments that this is a joke. But it’s real. The guy in the video is Ray Comfort, a New Zealand-born minister and evangelist. It came from his Christian talk show.
Is it just me or does this video look like a video teaching how to please a young male?
Notice he says “if you study a well made banana” implying there are bananas that aren’t well made? Suggesting even God can make imperfect bananas?
Or did the human hand evolve because our ancestors survived because their hands evolved to grab the bananas? Or not. Whatever.
I have seen the LIGHT! There is a GOD!
What an amazing piece of convoluted logic. There is one fruit on the planet that fits our hands and it happens to be a monkey’s favorite meal.
Oh come on, this is just flamebait. That said, watermelon is so succulent and delicious, God must have designed it just for us.
Score one more convert here!
Watching that banana video was a transformational experience for my pet monkey — he just consecrated his life to Jesus! It was very moving to watch, actually, but now I have to buy him underpants because he suddenly feels so naked.
“That said, watermelon is so succulent and delicious, God must have designed it just for us.”
I’m sorry David, but you’re incorrect. Obviously the watermelon evolved over millions and billions of years so we could throw them off of buildings.
Of all the fruit they pick a banana. Bananas we eat are sterile and produced through grafting. Selective breeding through centuries have made them into the form we see. Genetics engineering by humans at work! Humans made the banana as it is today, not God.
God didn’t make those bananas we did.
#8
Boooooo. Joy killer.
Alright, so the banana is out.
But look how convenient god placed our nose! Where else would we be able to place our glasses?
Pseudoscience at its best. Next he’ll prove that the male reproduction organ fits perfectly into an altar boy’s mouth, so God meant for priests to put it there..
Lets see him do it with a bratwurst sausage next
just read comments…
LOL!!!! #11 – thats a perfect argument, i’ll remember it lol
Hmmmmmmm
I wonder what the “Flying Spaghetti Monster” would have to say about that….
Wrong. Last night was an atheist’s dream and nightmare, rolled into one. Because it proves that there is a God, but at least he’s just as sick of Bush as we are.
He’s also on the no-fly list.
#13
The Catholic church will have a priest sing one of Sabrina’s hits in their next recruitment commercial.
A banana isn’t the only thing that fits perfectly in the mouth, just ask Ted Haggard.
#16
Never thought I’d see/hear about her again.
Downloaded the video just to, eh, see if, eh, it was like I remember.
MTV sure has lost it’s zilch 
Great idea – shame the modern banana is a perfect example of how breeding can introduce changes.
The modern banana is a testament to how man has changed the natural world. Nothing to do with god at all.
#19
That’s what YOU think.
But guess who MADE man change the natural world? 
“But guess who MADE man change the natural world?”
Woman?!
“I’m tired of living in this forest!” “I’m tired of living in this cave!” “I’m tired of living in this hut!” “I’m tired of living in this shack!” “I’m tired of living in this cabin!” “I’m tired of living in this house!” “I’m bored of this mansion, get a better job so we can buy a bigger one!”
#21
Looking at Sabrina’s video, I gotta tell you, women,/b>. Definitely
“Looking at Sabrina’s video, I gotta tell you, women,/b>. Definitely”
You think?!
Well, the song kinda sukks, but it was great fun to watch again. Man, gotta be 15 years?
Anyway, I’m glad the lyrics finally got it’s proper use in the recruitment commercial. Showing the video in it would surely have been a bummer though….
Bananas OK
But as the Duchess said to the Dirtwater Fox, Please don’t touch me Plums.
Does the above bit of nonsense make me as looney as the guy in the video?
This guy’s a bonehead- monkeys open bananas from the other side. They know it’s easier. Wow it’s almost as though monkeys selected the bananas that fit their hand and mouth best and those are the ones that most successfully produced offspring!
Still laughing…can’t talk.
11 and 17 kinda beat me to it. “The tip is just perfect to fit into the human mouth…” okaaayyyyyyy…
#10, are you saying God gave me bad eyes and a centered nose so that I could wear glasses? Fruck!
Bananas, as they appear today, are genetically engineered to appear that way. They are called Cavendish Bananas, and have only been available since the 1950s. They’re much larger than naturally-occurring bananas, and contain no seeds. In other words, modern science is what designed the modern banana, not God.
The interesting side-effect about them having no seeds is that, to be grown, they all have to be cloned. That’s right, every single banana you can buy in any store in the United States, and much of the rest of the world, is a CLONE!
Another interesting side-effect of them having no seeds and all being clones is that they are unable to evolve disease resistance (that’s right, EVOLVE). For this reason, something called the Panama disease is slated to cause the Cavendish banana to possibly become extinct in the next decade or so, at which point a different banana type will have to be developed (which is exactly what happened in the 1950s).
Isn’t it interesting how possessing rudimentary knowledge of simple trivia facts can so thoroughly debunk these ignorant fools?
—
The above text was copied verbatim from ilyag’s post on digg, 2 days ago.
http://digg.com/videos_comedy/Bananas_An_Atheist_s_Nightmare
Someone above here called this article “flamebait”, they are right and I’ve reached my fill of it on this site. Dvorak, I’ve read you for many years, watched you on ZD/TechTV and listened to you on the TWITcasts, this site was good but it’s become too much of an anti-God base. I am not a go to church on Sunday type, but this ain’t tech and it offends me. Funny that people who know about microprocessors can’t see that evolved monkeys could not have come up with such technology. It just couldn’t happen! Look at our world and the progress made in the last 100 years, in the last 50 and the speed of tech development. Oh forget it, you either see it and get it or you don’t. Don’t be too impressed with tech though, what good is it all when the power goes off.
Out of the favorites and gone for good, not even going to re-up PC mag anymore. You all seem to have put your faith in the wrong place.
Anyone want to point out that monkeys eat bananas in the same way (ok, without the Freudian reference). So, what does that say about monkeys and us??
“Someone above here called this article “flamebait”, they are right”
Exactly how is this flamebait?! I didn’t make the video. An atheist didn’t make the video.
Who made it? A Christian! The only person making Christian’s look stupid is the idiot Christian who made the video. Don’t blame anyone else for that, please!
And one more thing, John didn’t post this. So don’t blame him either.
#34 are you sure?
could be parody… I’m not convinced its not.
“could be parody… I’m not convinced its not.”
I agree that it certainly could be a parody. It’s certainly stupid enough. But it’s real. The guy in the video is Ray Comfort, a New Zealand-born minister and evangelist. It came from his Christian talk show.
ROFL! Of course it’s irony. And why it works so well is because it precisely mirrors the sorts of nonsense spouted by those who choose to rubbish science when it doesn’t fit their faith-based prejudices.
I have to agree with #32. I started reading John for his articles concerning tech issues, but more and more articles here are nothing more than Christian bashing. Science is good, but I’ll bet you could fill all the hard drives in the world with what scientist don’t know. Practically every day, scientist admit they were wrong about something they thought was true. Yet, so called educated people are quick to believe anything scientist say.
“I’ll bet you could fill all the hard drives in the world with what scientist don’t know.”
Yeah, you’re right. It only took Christians one book to tell us everything they don’t know.
But seriously, how is the posting of this video Christian bashing?! It was made by a Christian! If you feel it bashes Christians, call up Ray Comfort and bitch to him.
What’s up with some people?
J. C. Dvorak is not the one and only person running this blog. Maybe his participation is like 5%, 2%. I don’t know, but it ain’t 100%.
It’s no rocket surgery to figure that out. Click the “About Us” link, for screamin’ out loud.
And even if he ran this blog with a theocratic force, why does he have to be “tech issue narrow minded” only?
Does your “tech interest” prevent you from attending church? Or read your book? Or pray? I think not.
People of faith should endorse anything questioning stupid faith issues. If stupid theories like the “banana/god theory” is debunked, everybody should be pleased.
My suggestion:
If you see a story you think you don’t like: Don’t open it. See? It wasn’t so hard. Was it now?
Last night’s South Park gave the perfect description of atheists.
“J. C. Dvorak is not the one and only person running this blog.”
The funny thing to me is that, as far as I can tell, John is the only guy here who is not an atheist. So to blame him for this is ludicrous.
Funny about being WHITE, Ancesters that didnt get past the mediterainian(sp) and THEY KNEW about Bananas???
the Monkeys DID, the APES DID..
I dont think his German based family DID.
I know something else that fits the hand perfectly, curves up towards the mouth and does squirt in your face. But its a sin to use it that way
Bravo, Paddler! Very funny!
#39 It’s Christian bashing because most posts here only show Christians in a negative light which usually invites negative comments towards all Christians. Believe it or not, the majority of Christians are good people. Just ask the people in New Orleans who were helped by Christians while FEMA was still trying to figure out what was going on, or the people in South and Central America who have schools and clean drinking water because Christians volunteered their time and money to help.
#41 & #43. I know John doesn’t do all the posts here, but the last time I looked, it was his name at the top of the page and he was the Editor, which would make him in charge, so if I have a complaint, I will be addressing it to him. By the way, he’s been in this business a long time. I’m sure he’s had plenty of complaints and probably doesn’t need anyone fielding them for him.
Finally, I don’t think the banana proves anything.
Last night’s South Park gave the perfect description of atheists.
You mean that they’re people, just like everybody else? And that some of them get waaaay too caught up in what they believe and are overcome with the foolish notion that evangelizing to everyone they meet will eventually rid the world of all who believe differently, leaving only the faithful?
Hmmm, what other group might that be a perfect description of?
“It’s Christian bashing because most posts here only show Christians in a negative light which usually invites negative comments towards all Christians”
Ok, so the post itself does not bash Christians. Of course the comments bash Christians, but that was really the point, wasn’t it.
I think the only thing that bothers me with this post is because it takes one “section” from a point that Ray Comfort was trying to make. I’ve seen other christian sites do this as well (with videos quoting from Atheists or other religions) and it drives me nuts. Just to make someone look like an idiot! You can make anyone from any theological standpoint look like an idiot if you want to. Just watch a little Saturday Night Live and you can see stuff like that all day. I guess that’s what is ticking me off about dvorak.org blog. I like the tech stuff that he (and the contributors) blog about but enough with the “Anti-Christian” or “Anti-Whatever” campaign. Anyone can make anyone else look bad by using snippets of comments. I have to admit – it did make for a funny post. But, enough already. Evolution is a theory – not a fact (wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution) and Christianity is a belief (wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian). Nuf’ Said…
“Just ask the people in New Orleans who were helped by Christians while FEMA was still trying to figure out what was going on, or the people in South and Central America who have schools and clean drinking water because Christians volunteered their time and money to help.”
Are you saying that those very same people, if they weren’t convinced thet there was a God, would not have helped those people?
It’s a valid question, and not Christian bashing.
“Believe it or not, the majority of Christians are good people.”
Actually, as history has shown, “Chrisitian” goodness is relative. So a few hundred people helped out in N.O.
What about the Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades? Colonizing of the Americas? The Holocaust? (not only were Nazi’s CHRISTIAN, the Vatican turned its back at the time).
The “goodness” of Christians is very debatable. Millions have died in the wake of that religion. There are GOOD PEOPLE in the world, GOOD CHRISTIANITY is another thing all together.
And it’s not like I’m making this stuff up…its called a bloody, violent history of covert or die.
#48 – The episdoe showed ALL of that era’s atheists going out of control… which is about par for the course when the current era’s atheists are challenged on “The Great Question”.
Try not to lie in your posts next time.
Did anyone point out to these nuts that there is more than one kind of banana. There are banana varieties that are all different sizes and textures. The familiar banana is the size it is because man himself selected it.
#50. No. I’m not saying that at all. What I am saying is that the majority of Christians are normal, hardworking people, not wackos.
#51. I can’t be responsible for what people in the past did, anymore than today’s whites can be held responsible for what happened during slavery days. All I know is that Jesus taught His followers to love, not to hate, and to spread His message around the world. I don’t know of anywhere where He said to force people to accept Him. On the contrary, He said that each would answer for their own decisions. If you don’t believe, that’s up to you as far as I’m concerned, but the name calling is getting old.
52: All it showed was the leadership of the various factions and an army of otters on ostrich-back. If you had bothered to pay attention you might have recognized that the point of the episode was that people are people, and they will always find something to divide each other and fight over, no matter what their religion or lack thereof.
You also completely missed my point, which is that there are Atheist shitheads just like there are Christian/Jewish/ shitheads. We are all just PEOPLE. The groups we divide ourselves into tend to suffer from similar problems.
#50 “I think the only thing that bothers me with this post is because it takes one “section” from a point that Ray Comfort was trying to make… Just to make someone look like an idiot!”
This is not an instance where an atheist was trying to make a Christan look like an idiot. This is an instance where a Christian obtained a camera crew, got himself his own TV show, hired a formerly famous actor as a sidekick, and then recorded and broadcasted his thoughts.
There was no trickery involved. Nothing was taken out of context. There was no sudden ambush. There were absolutely no atheists involved who tried to make Comfort look like an idiot. That is something he did entirely by himself!
If taking Comfort’s thoughts verbatim makes him look like an idiot, how can you possibly place the blame for that on atheists?!
#53. Let me get this straight. According to you “South Park gave the perfect description of atheists.” So what was that “perfect description”? According to you, the “episdoe showed ALL of that era’s atheists going out of control.”
So, in your mind, the “perfect description of atheists” is when each and every single atheist from a time period goes “out of control.”
Can you give me one instance were every single atheist from an era went “out of control.” Because, as far as I can remember, that has never happened. Thus, I’m perplexed as to why something that never happened with atheists could be the “perfect description” of them?!
Maybe you could clarify that for me. Thanks!
#54 “the majority of Christians are normal, hardworking people, not wackos.”
I agree, and most of my family follows Christianity, but Christians have one characteristic in common that I consider potentially dangerous. They have the ability to switch off their conscience in matters of religion. When they read stories in their own Bible where their figure of ultimate authority commanded death by torture for trivial sins, these Christians cannot recognize it as evil because it comes from the object of their worship. The god Yahweh is defined as the source of all goodness, so nothing he commands can be otherwise, no matter how evil it would be if it came from another source.
That same ability to turn off one’s conscience when an evil order was given by the authority figure was what made some of history’s greatest bloodbaths possible. If you ever read your Bible without first switching off your conscience, you’ll be horrified.
It only proves what a un-educated idiot he is bananas were crossbred by humans from plantain’s .
so does this mean that god meant for people to masturbate? its fits almost as well in my hand as a banana
But it’s real.
I’m astonished, being certain that it was a deadpan parody.
How can anyone with any modicum of intelligence, living in the 21stC, spout such rubbish and actually mean it?
“How can anyone with any modicum of intelligence, living in the 21stC, spout such rubbish and actually mean it?”
The technical term for that debilitating condition is Christianity.
#62 Stereotyping and prejudice is something they taught against when I was in school.
#62 Stereotyping and prejudice is something they taught against when I was in school.
also, a better description of Christianity (regardless of how many ‘christians’ might be) is found in the book, at James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
I’m not interested in debating about how and why some do or don’t do this, I just want to make a distinction between ‘Christians,’ Christianity, and Christ. Never confuse them.
#63 “Stereotyping and prejudice is something they taught against when I was in school.”
I was taught to appreciate a joke, even those that are slightly hyperbolic.
#32 eat a dic… um a bananna I mean
#59
I heard someone recently counted the number of killed/murdered/slaughtered people initiated/demanded and/or approved by the christian god to be more than two million. (In the older part of the bible.)
I’m pretty sure they would have gotten rid of it long time ago if it wasn’t for the fact that the tales of Jesus depends on it.
Of course, this doesn’t make christians terrible. But not any better either.
Personally, I think accepting those hideous crimes as god’s “work” is rather alarming.
When people spout nonsense about natural science, they’re not acting as “Christians” or “Moslems” or “Athiests”, but as arrogant idiots. Or subnormal scientists, if you prefer.
I can’t read music or play an instrument. I made a short movie where I sang and accompanied public domain tunes and even composed one. Should I ever post it to YouTube or whatever, and somebody links to it here, I’ll have nobody to blame but myself. Somebody might attack me as a musically-challenged chess player. Then will other chess players start complaining? No, because chess players don’t go around making music AS chess players. They might, like Ray Charles, just happen to be chess players. The trouble is that certain Christians, AS Christians, are making pronouncements about science and are trying to influence public policy, which is a legit topic of this forum. So, if the price of science is eternal vigilance, we’re going to keep seeing postings like this. Maybe the part of the Christian community that does not support bad science should find a new name for themselves, or insist that the other guys get a new name. The f word (fundamentalist) used to be an easy one to throw around, but it’s one thing to believe bad science yourself, quite another to force it on impressionable minds.
And getting on that other topic of JCD (that’s not JCxD = 500 Christs) and tech issues, in the latest PC Mag which has reached this remote spiral arm of the galaxy, he talks about how braindead Windows is about multitasking. Here’s another example: insert a disc into your CD / DVD unit, count how many programs stop responding, and how long it takes for them to come back from the dead. Oops, sorry, maybe resurrection is OT.
#67
Shhh… he might unplug his Internet connection in order to punish John for having this Web site…
I totally stand with Ray Comfort and his claim. His point was that God (not a “random” cause) allowed for creation to be protected after man thought he could be like God.
In all truth, I understand that there is somewhat of a conceitedness that comes from what this world says is “smart” — i.e. working with technology. I’ve been there myself, too. However, I’ve seen in my own life, and in other’s lives total and utter helplessness when the truths of life as we know it today (tragedy, hurt, etc) pop our little bubble when these totally temporary finds fail our security.
I also know that unless you see it for yourself — through selling out and seeking the truth — you just won’t get it, and it all will seem the stupidest thing there has ever been; the Bible itself says so, quite frankly. I’ve seen Christ’s work, I’ve seen the reality of him and his claims, and I’ve seen things that result from a relationship with him that go way (read: way) beyond coincidence. Put parts of that claim in italics all you want, it will come from my mouth until I die; God-willing.
As far as tragedies…I’ve been through them myself, so I’m qualified to speak on them. I haven’t died (duh), but I’ve been in the face of death before. And after the experience, I sold out and realized that because he’s God, it’s his choice, and it’s always right — and I’m not worth anything, but he loves mankind so, that he died for us. When do you draw closest to your loved ones? It’s in tragedy. We’re just so stupid that we won’t draw close to him unless we need a Dad to comfort us a lot of times.
WokTiny – you’re spot on, main.
John, thanks for the opportunity to have open discourse. It really is greatly appreciated. And thank you others for the same.
#58 – The fact you can’t tell I’m messing with this guy is sad.
#71
Eh, I thank you for the support for the nose/glasses theory then
And…….. you’re welcome………..
Atheists (mostly) had fun with this clip because it again illustrates theists’ own projection of grasping desperately at anything that might confirm their superstition and ultimate fear of death. Shawn exhibits the same weakness… an inability to cope with reality. So that fear is replaced with a big brother who will magically take care of things.
Hey, if it works for you Shawn, that is fine with me. Just keep it to yourself and let my reality continue without you trying to bestow your “Revelation” and the intolerant baggage that often goes with it, on me or like minded, and I’ll be happy to accept your condition and not ridicule it.
#68 Roger, I won’t question the numbers involved, but the gruesome nature of some of the Bible’s war stories really hits home when you realize that women and children were often either slaughtered right along with the men (if they couldn’t flee fast enough or refused), or taken as slaves.
I think many youngsters would have fewer nightmares after seeing a Friday The 13th movie marathon than after reading stories from the Bible about the deity that Mommy and Daddy worship, a deity that sometimes kills children in their sleep as a means of hurting the adults who love them.
#70 Jägermeister “…punish John for having this Web site”
Didn’t you know? We’re John’s punishment — he needs no other
#75
The numbers are in:
At least 2 017 956 people accounted for as ordered killed by the god of the bible. Not counting 65 entire cities where the people were slain, but no numbers stated for these.
Gory and horrible stuff. And nothing much reminding of mercy and love.
Now you know what the banana maker had as a hobby….
I’m not certain that John wants this to turn into a strictly faith-based discussion. I had a big post written out, but I’ll scale down here, ha ha…
JimR – The clip isn’t a desperate grasp; it’s a common philosophical tool that wipes the dust of ordinary off everyday things and presents them as they are: logical works of God.
As for the weakness comment – I have seen a considerable greater weakness in those that place their faith in things such as technology and other temp stuff. When those things fall, it’s readily apparent that they fall, because they just fall apart. If they didn’t, I hardly find it admirable that they would be secure; they themselves they have no idea what is going to happen next…why not search it out?
As for my inability to cope with reality: I’m sorry, but my claims were validated, not issued, when I saw that Christ was real; that’s a big and fundamental difference. “Working for me”…reality isn’t relative. If Christ is real, then his claims are blanket claims. Same with opposing claims to the degree that they are made. If he *is* real, then what he said is also real. And I can’t ignore those facts. My purpose isn’t defined by a bubble of popular opinion.
As for the killings, there were logical and just reasons for what God chose and chooses to do. Always is. Fact of the matter – Christ didn’t command those who didn’t trust in him to be slaughtered, so save the comparison to Islam. When he did command those things, remember that even if you don’t accept what the book says as truth, the story is that those are the same people that he died for on a cross. Keep the logic there. Also, I wonder if the same passion or fervor would be there to oppose the slaughtering of the smallest of all in a mother’s womb, or smaller still, a dish.
I *am* thankful because these are important discussions. Especially in these times, and because it certainly is at the heart of the world around us, tech-assisted or not. Thanks guys and gals.
#76 we’ve killed plenty more in our wars, what’s your point? are you saying that only evil takes life? if you jumped off a building, would you curse gravity for making you fall? There is a certain way about the universe, reality, rhythm. being in harmony with such rhythms and realities makes life better*, being out of harmony, not so much better. I don’t know what God is, but I don’t limit myself to the notion that he is an old gray man sitting in the clouds, but perhaps something more, different, than we can understand.
*better is not always easier, site 1st century roman rule, but see this illustration:
Acts 2: 42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.
Everyone had their needs met. All this talk about bananas and killings is not the point. I think the power of Christ and the will of God is displayed very clearly here, in that everyone had their needs met.
#77 Shawn says “As for the killings, there were logical and just reasons for what God chose and chooses to do. Always is.”
That’s where my conscience tells me otherwise, and your argument of “just reasons” shows to what extent you’ve turned off your own conscience. According to the Bible, when Yahweh was trying to convince the Pharoah to let the Israelites leave Egypt, his final “plague” was when he reached his hand of death into cribs and beds all across Egypt, and he killed the firstborn son of each Egyptian household in their sleep. As a mafioso might say, God “wacked them.” It’s interesting to note that he only killed the children as a means of hurting and coercing the adults who loved them. The children’s only crime was being Egyptian.
When I was a kid in church, I grew up singing this song (among other silly ditties)…
Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red and yellow, black and white,
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world.
I guess God the Father and Jesus disagree on this issue where Egyptian children are concerned, as long as God has an important point to make to the ruling Pharoah. Shawn, it’s time to turn your conscience back on, and stop recognizing Yahweh as an authority so “right” that he’s somehow justified even when he kills innocent children. If someone kills your child, will you ask first if they have a logical and just reason for doing so? Wake up and smell the brutality of the demon Yahweh. Find yourself a real god who can make his point without killing innocent children in their sleep.
This is just another example of how incompetant religous nuts are. This guy has no fruit of knowledge for the subject of science. Yet he has imaginably created a science of his own for his definement of the bananna. C’mon man, atleast do your research on banannas before you go off and use it as your evidence.
If there is a God. I can just wonder how much of a kick he and his buddies must get out of watching this.
#50 You can make anyone from any theological standpoint look like an idiot if you want to.
True. It isn’t even a challenge to do so.
But, enough already. Evolution is a theory – not a fact
Comment by me — 11/9/2006 @ 10:13 am
Especially when the opposition doesn’t know what a theory is.
#79 you assume that one cannot kill what they Love. the kind of logic a child uses when he thinks “daddy can’t love me, he spanked me, and that’s not love”
lol WokTiny, just when I was getting bummed out because the discussion had lost some of its insanity, your explanation gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “love ‘em to death.” You’ve completely restored my faith in your religion
JoJo #80 – I realize all well what science is — science is, at it’s core, allowing no presuppositions to enter into a judgment of what is fact — based solely on what can be tested. That’s science in a sentence. No less and no more (please do correct me if I’m wrong.) I will say that evolution answers a lot of questions. Scientific theory aims to do this in general by “evolving” itself iteration by iteration (OhForTheLoveof #81) but if the answers are weaved together well enough, anything that fills in the gaps within some semblance of likelihood can be used to do so, and thus, the whole thing can be one big woven lie. That’s a fact, in this unintended paradoxical phrase.
Gary #79 – I understand your passion in saying such a thing. Let me pose this to you, because of your reasoning: are you a staunch pro-life voter because of this love for the defense of children? I cannot assume either way in this text, but I do want to respectfully pose that important question. As for God’s right to do so…He’s God. He’s the creator, and he’s the destroyer if he so chooses. He *could* squash us all like bugs (if we all agree on the proposition that he is all-powerful, which is reasonable to agree on for the sake of argument). Let me pose this question: If you were God, the all-powerful creator of humanity; had a creation of people (who amounted to bugs in comparison to your might) who saw your power (through the plagues) and they *still* chose to deny your existence…would *you* go through hell (literally) and die for them?
With those positions established, let’s please recall that the Egyptians were not acting in tolerance and peace. The nation itself was not an innocent bystander who were minding their own business, and treating everyone well. No, they were the heart of intolerance which you seem to be speaking against so passionately, with an entire race of people as unwilling slaves. That must be added to this discussion as well. Not only that, but the plagues themselves were — every single one of them — able to be avoided by releasing the race of people that they were enslaving. Time and time again, extraordinary signs were shown to prove the desire of the Almighty. Even the killing of the firstborn, the one that broke the backs of the Egyptians, could have been avoided This stance differs greatly from your comments, Gary. After all, please recall that the same scriptures that you are discrediting say that God “desires that no one shall perish”.
Now, the keystone argument in all of this — if there is no God, then why should one then fighting for lives that have no meaning? It is by definition self-righteous to do so — one ascribes that there is no God, or no reasonable way to come to the knowledge of the higher power and the desires of his heart. If so, one are becomes (no typo, there) one’s own God — by definition, again — when you fight for something that you are assigning ultimate reason and/or justification, when you claim that there is no way of knowing the ultimate reason/justification in the first place.
And if that cannot be answered, then one is (sorry for using this term again!), by definition, in the same place that you claim Ray Comfort is — claiming a faith based upon no reason to do so.
Thank you fellas, and fellias, if are any here. This stuff is the purpose of life, for sure.
Shawn, your entire post tries to reinforce one of the recurring themes of the Bible and one of Yahweh’s greatest character flaws, that is, the punishment of the many (often innocent) for the sins of the few. According to the Bible, every household throughout Egypt with a male child felt God’s wrath that night, yet the notion that all of those whose child was killed truly deserved it is ludicrous on its face. That kind of wholesale guilt defies both logic and human experience, and in any case, none of what you described rises to a level that warrants a death sentence on a young child.
You seem to think that closer examination of certain details or even gross generalizations about the Egyptians will somehow lead to some measure of justification for killing their children. And my views on abortion are also irrelevant in this discussion, since neither position would seriously undermine arguments against the slaughter of living, breathing children, something you’re still trying to rationalize. If you think I don’t cast my protective net wide enough, does that make child murder at all ages suddenly tolerable? On the other hand, your position on abortion certainly could undermine your argument that God’s slaughter of children wasn’t evil. It should be considered evil, by your own standards.
The bottom line in all of this remains unchanged — God (the demon Yahweh) killed thousands of innocent children in their sleep as a means of hurting the parents who loved them, to put further pressure on Pharoah to let the Israelites leave Egypt. If you’re somehow sincere in your attempt to broaden our discussion into extraneous material, let me just point out that you’re losing sight of the forest for all the many trees. But if you’re not sincere, then it’s an attempt at misdirection unworthy of even a second-rate carnival magician.
In the end, Shawn, your best argument was “He’s the creator, and he’s the destroyer if he so chooses.” That’s your best argument, because it’s also your most religious argument, and it takes religion and all the pathology that goes with it to justify this act of utter contempt for young Egyptian lives. As for me, perhaps I’ll know my creator when I find a god that doesn’t offend and contradict my conscience at every turn. So far, I’ve only ruled out Yahweh and a handful of others, but I’m certainly open to the idea of a god that represents true goodness.
#77
“As for the killings, there were logical and just reasons for what God chose and chooses to do. Always is. Fact of the matter – Christ didn’t command those who didn’t trust in him to be slaughtered, so save the comparison to Islam.”
I don’t know what it is that makes horrible behavior acceptable as long as it is long time ago, and/or it is god’s work.
“Documented” genocide is nothing but genocide, no matter how you look at it. The quote makes me both scared and sad. Scared because obviously, life taken in the name of god, is “logical and just”. Sad because realizing this, really makes me feel the same about christianity as I feel about the form of islam some terror group in the Middle East tend to justify their horrible acts with.
I wonder why the christians so faithfully support the disgusting acts of their god? Slaughtering millions of innocent people, keeping slaves, even including instructions how to mark them as slaves. Stoning of people with certain qualities that the god doesn’t approve. Hm, and what about the city where they were instructed to kill everybody but the virgins? Turned out to be 30 000 virgins. Must have been quite a large city. And what the hell is it with virgins anyway? I wouldn’t call them sex slaves, would you? Or maybe they were turned into history’s first nuns? “Untouched and pure” till they died?
As a matter of fact, I see very clear similarities between militant Islam, and the cruel god described in the bible. So I am taking you on your word and am saving this comparison as a valid equation. The two religions are in fact very similar in my view.
I don’t know if this
“..Fact of the matter – Christ didn’t command those who didn’t trust in him to be slaughtered,….”
were written by the help of your god? Maybe he guided you a little? I think you should believe so, right? After all, he’s almighty. Anyway, as I read the sentence, it equals: “Fact of the matter – Christ did command those who trust in him to be slaughtered,”.
So I say: Holy shit, he didn’t even spare those who trusted him?
It’s sad that so many people’s view of the Earth are formed by scriptures with so many bad and terrible qualities as the bible has. There are good parts there also, by all means, but that does not justify all the terrible stuff. And to put blind faith in that book does not help to save this fragile planet we live on at all. On the contrary.
Lastly, I do feel totally alienated to your faith. And that’s probably why I feel so appalled hearing you justify the genocides.
So, for a moment, imagine you have a sister who have just joined this “other” religion. And she says”We had to kill a couple of million Canadians, ’cause they didn’t approve our god. But I’m OK with that, ’cause it was what our god commanded.” I bet you would start getting worried for her. I know I do. For you.
(Please, I love Canada, Canadians, and all that goes with it. Except for the occasional cold and snow they ship this way) 
Roger, I always want to avoid name-calling in these arguments, but the level of insanity it takes to justify killing children in response to oppression just about makes my head explode sometimes. I’m just afraid that if this sort of dysfunction exists elsewhere, seemingly ordinary people might even be able to rationalize acts of violence like flying planes into buildings as retaliation for their own perceived oppression and injustice.
Naw — things like that are just too far-fetched
Enough drool about bananas and religion. I prefer a large juicy sour pickle anytime. Thank you, God!
monkeys eat bannanas… we evolved from monkey..s….
END OF STORY U RETARD U PROOVED URSELF WRONG
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