So if the easy to eat banana is supposed to prove the existence of God, what exactly does the artichoke prove?
Update: There is some suggestion in the comments that this is a joke. But it’s real. The guy in the video is Ray Comfort, a New Zealand-born minister and evangelist. It came from his Christian talk show.
#50 You can make anyone from any theological standpoint look like an idiot if you want to.
True. It isn’t even a challenge to do so.
But, enough already. Evolution is a theory – not a fact
Comment by me — 11/9/2006 @ 10:13 am
Especially when the opposition doesn’t know what a theory is.
#79 you assume that one cannot kill what they Love. the kind of logic a child uses when he thinks “daddy can’t love me, he spanked me, and that’s not love”
lol WokTiny, just when I was getting bummed out because the discussion had lost some of its insanity, your explanation gives a whole new meaning to the phrase “love ‘em to death.” You’ve completely restored my faith in your religion
JoJo #80 – I realize all well what science is — science is, at it’s core, allowing no presuppositions to enter into a judgment of what is fact — based solely on what can be tested. That’s science in a sentence. No less and no more (please do correct me if I’m wrong.) I will say that evolution answers a lot of questions. Scientific theory aims to do this in general by “evolving” itself iteration by iteration (OhForTheLoveof #81) but if the answers are weaved together well enough, anything that fills in the gaps within some semblance of likelihood can be used to do so, and thus, the whole thing can be one big woven lie. That’s a fact, in this unintended paradoxical phrase.
Gary #79 – I understand your passion in saying such a thing. Let me pose this to you, because of your reasoning: are you a staunch pro-life voter because of this love for the defense of children? I cannot assume either way in this text, but I do want to respectfully pose that important question. As for God’s right to do so…He’s God. He’s the creator, and he’s the destroyer if he so chooses. He *could* squash us all like bugs (if we all agree on the proposition that he is all-powerful, which is reasonable to agree on for the sake of argument). Let me pose this question: If you were God, the all-powerful creator of humanity; had a creation of people (who amounted to bugs in comparison to your might) who saw your power (through the plagues) and they *still* chose to deny your existence…would *you* go through hell (literally) and die for them?
With those positions established, let’s please recall that the Egyptians were not acting in tolerance and peace. The nation itself was not an innocent bystander who were minding their own business, and treating everyone well. No, they were the heart of intolerance which you seem to be speaking against so passionately, with an entire race of people as unwilling slaves. That must be added to this discussion as well. Not only that, but the plagues themselves were — every single one of them — able to be avoided by releasing the race of people that they were enslaving. Time and time again, extraordinary signs were shown to prove the desire of the Almighty. Even the killing of the firstborn, the one that broke the backs of the Egyptians, could have been avoided This stance differs greatly from your comments, Gary. After all, please recall that the same scriptures that you are discrediting say that God “desires that no one shall perish”.
Now, the keystone argument in all of this — if there is no God, then why should one then fighting for lives that have no meaning? It is by definition self-righteous to do so — one ascribes that there is no God, or no reasonable way to come to the knowledge of the higher power and the desires of his heart. If so, one are becomes (no typo, there) one’s own God — by definition, again — when you fight for something that you are assigning ultimate reason and/or justification, when you claim that there is no way of knowing the ultimate reason/justification in the first place.
And if that cannot be answered, then one is (sorry for using this term again!), by definition, in the same place that you claim Ray Comfort is — claiming a faith based upon no reason to do so.
Thank you fellas, and fellias, if are any here. This stuff is the purpose of life, for sure.
Shawn, your entire post tries to reinforce one of the recurring themes of the Bible and one of Yahweh’s greatest character flaws, that is, the punishment of the many (often innocent) for the sins of the few. According to the Bible, every household throughout Egypt with a male child felt God’s wrath that night, yet the notion that all of those whose child was killed truly deserved it is ludicrous on its face. That kind of wholesale guilt defies both logic and human experience, and in any case, none of what you described rises to a level that warrants a death sentence on a young child.
You seem to think that closer examination of certain details or even gross generalizations about the Egyptians will somehow lead to some measure of justification for killing their children. And my views on abortion are also irrelevant in this discussion, since neither position would seriously undermine arguments against the slaughter of living, breathing children, something you’re still trying to rationalize. If you think I don’t cast my protective net wide enough, does that make child murder at all ages suddenly tolerable? On the other hand, your position on abortion certainly could undermine your argument that God’s slaughter of children wasn’t evil. It should be considered evil, by your own standards.
The bottom line in all of this remains unchanged — God (the demon Yahweh) killed thousands of innocent children in their sleep as a means of hurting the parents who loved them, to put further pressure on Pharoah to let the Israelites leave Egypt. If you’re somehow sincere in your attempt to broaden our discussion into extraneous material, let me just point out that you’re losing sight of the forest for all the many trees. But if you’re not sincere, then it’s an attempt at misdirection unworthy of even a second-rate carnival magician.
In the end, Shawn, your best argument was “He’s the creator, and he’s the destroyer if he so chooses.” That’s your best argument, because it’s also your most religious argument, and it takes religion and all the pathology that goes with it to justify this act of utter contempt for young Egyptian lives. As for me, perhaps I’ll know my creator when I find a god that doesn’t offend and contradict my conscience at every turn. So far, I’ve only ruled out Yahweh and a handful of others, but I’m certainly open to the idea of a god that represents true goodness.
#77
“As for the killings, there were logical and just reasons for what God chose and chooses to do. Always is. Fact of the matter – Christ didn’t command those who didn’t trust in him to be slaughtered, so save the comparison to Islam.”
I don’t know what it is that makes horrible behavior acceptable as long as it is long time ago, and/or it is god’s work.
“Documented” genocide is nothing but genocide, no matter how you look at it. The quote makes me both scared and sad. Scared because obviously, life taken in the name of god, is “logical and just”. Sad because realizing this, really makes me feel the same about christianity as I feel about the form of islam some terror group in the Middle East tend to justify their horrible acts with.
I wonder why the christians so faithfully support the disgusting acts of their god? Slaughtering millions of innocent people, keeping slaves, even including instructions how to mark them as slaves. Stoning of people with certain qualities that the god doesn’t approve. Hm, and what about the city where they were instructed to kill everybody but the virgins? Turned out to be 30 000 virgins. Must have been quite a large city. And what the hell is it with virgins anyway? I wouldn’t call them sex slaves, would you? Or maybe they were turned into history’s first nuns? “Untouched and pure” till they died?
As a matter of fact, I see very clear similarities between militant Islam, and the cruel god described in the bible. So I am taking you on your word and am saving this comparison as a valid equation. The two religions are in fact very similar in my view.
I don’t know if this
“..Fact of the matter – Christ didn’t command those who didn’t trust in him to be slaughtered,….”
were written by the help of your god? Maybe he guided you a little? I think you should believe so, right? After all, he’s almighty. Anyway, as I read the sentence, it equals: “Fact of the matter – Christ did command those who trust in him to be slaughtered,”.
So I say: Holy shit, he didn’t even spare those who trusted him?
It’s sad that so many people’s view of the Earth are formed by scriptures with so many bad and terrible qualities as the bible has. There are good parts there also, by all means, but that does not justify all the terrible stuff. And to put blind faith in that book does not help to save this fragile planet we live on at all. On the contrary.
Lastly, I do feel totally alienated to your faith. And that’s probably why I feel so appalled hearing you justify the genocides.
So, for a moment, imagine you have a sister who have just joined this “other” religion. And she says”We had to kill a couple of million Canadians, ’cause they didn’t approve our god. But I’m OK with that, ’cause it was what our god commanded.” I bet you would start getting worried for her. I know I do. For you.
(Please, I love Canada, Canadians, and all that goes with it. Except for the occasional cold and snow they ship this way)
Roger, I always want to avoid name-calling in these arguments, but the level of insanity it takes to justify killing children in response to oppression just about makes my head explode sometimes. I’m just afraid that if this sort of dysfunction exists elsewhere, seemingly ordinary people might even be able to rationalize acts of violence like flying planes into buildings as retaliation for their own perceived oppression and injustice.
Naw — things like that are just too far-fetched
Enough drool about bananas and religion. I prefer a large juicy sour pickle anytime. Thank you, God!
monkeys eat bannanas… we evolved from monkey..s….
END OF STORY U RETARD U PROOVED URSELF WRONG