Muslim Cab Drivers in BC Refuse to Allow Guide Dog for the Blind in Cab for Religious Reasons

Published on November 18th, 2006

Posted by SN in General

North Shore News – November 15, 2006:

A case potentially pitting rights of the disabled against religious beliefs will be heard by the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal after a blind man from the North Shore who uses a guide dog to get around launched a complaint against North Shore Taxi.

Bruce Gilmour filed the complaint after a cab driver from North Shore Taxi refused to let his guide dog into the cab in January of this year. Gilmour, who says it’s not the first time he’s been refused service by a taxicab, is complaining that North Shore taxi discriminated against him on the basis of physical disability.

But the taxi driver, Behzad Saidy, is arguing his Muslim religious beliefs will not allow him to take dogs in his taxi, because Muslims can’t associate with dogs.

According to documents filed with the Human Rights Tribunal, North Shore Taxi said about half of their drivers are “unable to take animals in their taxis due to medical or religious reasons.”

53 users responded in " Muslim Cab Drivers in BC Refuse to Allow Guide Dog for the Blind in Cab for Religious Reasons "

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# 1 Scott Gant said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:24 am

Ok, this is a new one on me. Muslims can’t associate with dogs?

# 2 ethanol said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:34 am

Enough already, just like the taxi drivers in Minneapolis who wouldn’t take passengers who consumed alcohol or possessed alcohol! This is why religion cannot dictate public policy…

# 3 John C Dvorak said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:39 am

Where in the Koran does it say you cannot have a dog in a taxi? This guy just hates blind people!

# 4 Mr. Fusion said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:45 am

There is a wide gulf between what one may do in private and what one may do in public. In the privacy of your own home, you may gnash and wail all you like about the sins of someone using a guide dog. When you get behind that Taxi’s steering wheel, prepare to accept the public and their use of guide dogs, or women without bhurkas or head scarves, or carrying alcohol, or carrying bibles, or carrying a pound of bacon, or … .

# 5 Mike Voice said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:48 am

Shouldn’t this be [isn't it?] park of the licensing process?

To qualify for the taxi license you would have to agree to certain regulations regarding who you could refuse service to, and on what grounds you could refuse service?

Isn’t that what the last bit in the article is trying to say:
Under legislation, however, cab drivers must be willing to take certified assistance dogs.

The taxi company tries to work-around that by sending another cab if the first won’t do it?

# 6 Angel H. Wong said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:49 am

I say make that man eat a bag of pork rinds.

# 7 Andy said, on November 18th, 2006 at 8:56 am

this is why all religion should be banned from society, religion only generates hate.

# 8 Gwendle said, on November 18th, 2006 at 9:05 am

This has been happening in Minnesota for months. They also refuse to take any passengers with alcohol or any trans-vestite/sexuals. Religious reasons are cited for their racism/discrimination.

# 9 GregA said, on November 18th, 2006 at 9:08 am

Whats the problem, christian pharmacists have been doing this for years with women and birth control….

# 10 ace said, on November 18th, 2006 at 9:14 am

If the complainant has to wait for a non-muslim cab driver on Vancouver’s North Shore, he may as well move…

# 11 James Hill said, on November 18th, 2006 at 9:56 am

#1 – No, just not with higher forms of life.

# 12 Ballenger said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:30 am

This link may add to the understanding of the Islamic perspective on dogs. One of the other links off this page, on the subject of sacrifice, provides more insight, in a shake your head, “what century is this again?” sort of way.

http://www.islamicconcern.com/dogs.asp

Confusing freedom to worship with inflicting your religious preferences on those who would prefer that you keep them to yourself, has simply gotten out of hand. We should be able to live and function freely in America without joining, as Rosanne Barr put it, the Jehovah’s Witness Protection Program.

# 13 TJGeezer said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:34 am

Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. He was wrong. It’s the methamphetamine-PCP cocktail of the mindless.

Too bad we can’t refocus drug-war Prohibition enforcers on religion instead of on mild social intoxicants like pot. They might actually do society some good instead of harm that way.

# 14 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:35 am

If you guys wanna trash religious beliefs, you know I’m in…

But if these cabbies do what I did, and I bet they do, then shut up (I say this with all due respect).

Cabbies don’t have “jobs”. The cab company isn’t a public service. It’s a car rental agency. The cabbie comes in to the cab rental service and rents a car, during which time he may elect to transport passengers or, if he’s an idiot, he can use the cab to help his buddy move or he may go to the park and sleep in the cab or he may just park it in his garage for 12 hours… It makes no difference.

Driving a cab is one of the 5 most dangerous jobs you can have. You have no idea who your passengers and you spend a great deal of time (especially after dark) dealing with criminals, drug addicts and dealers, prostitutes, drunks, rednecks, and drunken redneck prostitutes who sell drugs, are addicted to drugs, and engage in criminal acts.

The cab company is under no obligation to rent their cars to anyone so if this is a problem, the cab company (who actually makes no money off fares) could just not rent to offending drivers, but if the driver is paying the lease on a cab, then he’s the captain and can refuse service to anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason, no matter how stupid that reason is.

Totally unrelated side note: Let me say, I would always rather take a drug dealer on his rounds than to haul an intoxicated redneck. Dealers want no attention and they know a cabbie’s dispatcher knows who is in the cab and where the cab is. They get in, tell you their route, typically already know the cost, pay up front, add a reasonable tip, and stay quiet. They even insist on you parking far away from thier stops so as to ensure that you have no contact with what they are doing. No muss, no fuss. — On the other hand, rednecks full of beer are beligerant assholes looking for a fight. I needed a crew (a call to the cops, who, by the way, answered ALWAYS in very fast time) at least one time every week. I never called cops on a drug run as there was never any need, but drunken rednecks were a coin toss as to whether I’d need the police or not. Fortunately for me, I’m kind of a bad ass so I could usually keep a situation under control for the few minutes it would take the cops to arrive.

Another side note: Never carried a gun in the cab. Many cabbies do.

# 15 ghm101 said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:53 am

Had a few cases of this in the UK.

And, rightly in my opinion, there are anti discrimination laws in place that make it law that accommodation has to be made for blind people and thier dogs. In restaurants, theatres, places of work and taxis.

As a result several taxi drivers have been sacked and fined for just this.

# 16 sirfelix said, on November 18th, 2006 at 11:14 am

Couple of points:
Was the cab company applicant asked if he/she could work with animals on the job? If not, then ask and hire a few animal friendly cabbies.
The rider has an obligation to tell the cab company he/she needs a “disability” friendly cab. And cannot expect every cab to fits their needs.

For those disabled that know, its like showing up at a hotel without a reservation and asking for a handicapped room. You cannot expect 100% of the rooms to fit your needs. Planning is expected.

# 17 rctaylor said, on November 18th, 2006 at 11:37 am

I had enough of this crap. It’s high time the Pope called for another crusade. Raise the banners and swords and let us smite the evil vermin. Either that or I need to switch back to decaf.

# 18 Ballenger said, on November 18th, 2006 at 11:45 am

Also. The average dog is cleaner than most cabs, hospitals, restaurants, government building, movie theatres and all public rest rooms. I don’t have to hang an air freshener on my Golden. No one has ever thrown up or had sex on him, rested their sweaty buttocks on him on a hot August afternoon, he doesn’t get sneezed on by countless people daily and I have never seen a chewing gum or a boogers stuck to any part of him. The cleanest cab on the planet is a CDC worse case scenario compared to the average pet.

# 19 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 18th, 2006 at 12:18 pm

#16 – Couple of points:
Was the cab company applicant asked if he/she could work with animals on the job? If not, then ask and hire a few animal friendly cabbies.
The rider has an obligation to tell the cab company he/she needs a “disability” friendly cab. And cannot expect every cab to fits their needs.

I am writing about my experience with an American company, so…

There is no such thing as an applicant. You go to the municipal building, pay the fee for a hack license, then go to Cab Company A (which is just like Hertz, Avis, or Budget, only with cabs and a dispatcher who “offers” you fares as they call in) and take the car. It’s about as secure as the North Dakota/Canada border.

I never met a cabbie “in my experience” who would not allow a guide dog. I, personally, refused some animals on occassion, but never a guide animal, a crated animal, or any small controlled animals. In fact, unlike many hacks, I offered to do a lot of extra little things and extended a lot of courtesy to passengers (except drunk rednecks) because it yielded better tips and many passengers began requesting me personally – so I made out pretty well.

# 20 AB CD said, on November 18th, 2006 at 1:03 pm

Why does BC have a Human Rights Tribunal?

# 21 Rich said, on November 18th, 2006 at 1:20 pm

Muslims can’t associate with dogs? Dogs are wonderful. Dogs are man’s best friends. To hell with the Muslims- I’ll take the dogs. I’m serious- if I’m driving down the street and must swerve to avoid one of a pair of obstacles, I’ll hit the damn Muslim and spare the pooch.

# 22 John Henri Allyn said, on November 18th, 2006 at 1:24 pm

Can’t associate with dogs but will ride a camel with 3 humps that spits every other second.

HIPPOCRITES

# 23 Vic said, on November 18th, 2006 at 1:37 pm

They should go back to where they came from and drive there f^cking cab there if they don’t want to be part of the society they immigrated too.

# 24 Mike Voice said, on November 18th, 2006 at 2:33 pm

14 Let me say, I would always rather take a drug dealer on his rounds than to haul an intoxicated redneck.

Makes sense.

Interesting metaphor about cab companies being like Hertz or Avis. i wasn’t aware it worked like that.

# 25 John C Dvorak said, on November 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pm

Let’s try and keep the discussion civil. Saying you’d run over an anonymous Muslim rahter than the dog is ridiculous.

This is about jerks using religious excuses for whatever reason. The real issue here is that they are getting away with it.

# 26 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 18th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

#24 – It probably doesn’t work that way every place, but it does in many places and it did where I drove…

# 27 Named said, on November 18th, 2006 at 4:28 pm

Before everyone get’s all worked up, please read the link from post 12. This guy is just exploiting his own religion to stir it up a bit. Then read post 14, cause he’s dead on about cabbies. They rent a car and then drive whomever they want around.

The only issue with cabbies and their fares is when they are the only allowed transportation in a particular place… namely airports. Airports usually have only one cab / limo company, and their fares are set by zone, not by meter fare.

# 28 Named said, on November 18th, 2006 at 4:30 pm

And fix the damned kind-a-Captcha! I’m going to post it on every article until you do! And then I’m going to email it to you Johnny boy! And then I’m going to write the editor of Ziff-Davis! And then, your city councilor, your congressman, your senator and your damned president !!!!!

Thanks!

# 29 Mark said, on November 18th, 2006 at 5:02 pm

28. I think all you have to do is make sure your OS accepts cookies. One of my computers does this, (the one which has cookies turned off) the others do not.

# 30 Milo said, on November 18th, 2006 at 5:06 pm

I have helped get a cab driver convicted for doing this under the guide dogs act of Alberta. From what I know of Canadian Human Rights law and precedent this guy doesn’t have a “prayer”.

# 31 Gary Marks said, on November 18th, 2006 at 5:54 pm

One thing’s for sure — refusing to associate with what many Americans consider to be “man’s best friend” is really bad P.R. for these Muslims. I think they should really recheck their Koran to see if there’s another way to interpret this prohibition. Other religions like Christianity have frequently reinterpreted their own scriptures to fit in better with the surrounding culture, so maybe Muslims could find a way to make some sort of similar accommodation.

If you elect me the Grand Wizard of Islam, I promise to make this my very first fatwa. And don’t forget that my opponent is a dirty rotten bastard.

# 32 andy said, on November 18th, 2006 at 9:28 pm

why because they eat them?!?!?

# 33 traaxx said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:24 pm

It’s going to fun watching all the secularist/athist/socialist/communist cave into the Muslims. And remember if they can do it then all the other evil religion can also. Or are the Muslims just a poor and misunderstood group, that a bunch of white judgmental racist are picking on for their own benifit. Really diversity is a better why for a society to operate, and here you have it.

# 34 traaxx said, on November 18th, 2006 at 10:26 pm

Oh and about Canada, they are already caving in. The Muslims get to use Shrill’iea Law up there and they are being allowed to set up Muslim exclusive neighborhoods in Europe. That’s real diversity in action.

# 35 RBG said, on November 19th, 2006 at 1:28 am

3. I can’t answer that, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did. I’m sure there’s something similar on pigs. Which raises an interesting point. Man jumps into cab driven by Muslim and starts munching on pork rinds…

Anyway, I can tell you there are no dogs to be found in Saudi Arabia (that I know of. ‘Course, it might be like there is “no booze” in Saudi Arabia too.) So they seem to be pretty strict about it all.

Except… Except… one type of dog. Isn’t that interesting. It’s a dog called a Saluki dog – a small game hunting and retrieval dog. They are permitted. Don’t know the whole story on that.

One little digression while on the topic of pets over there in the Kingdom. There’s lots of cats. And I for a while I wondered why you’d find them outside lying right at the base of doors where they could easily get hit by an opening door. Answer: the little bit of air conditioning that seeped under the door.

RBG

# 36 RBG said, on November 19th, 2006 at 1:32 am

Shar’ia law is limited to Ontario, afaik. I know it was outright rejected in many provinces, including BC, and certainly holds no federal authority. Even in Ontario – if it still exists – it is editorially under attack.

RBG

# 37 Saad said, on November 19th, 2006 at 8:02 am

OK this is really stupid!!
I’m a 19 year old muslim and there’s no such thing in the religion that doesnt let a muslim give a ride to a dog. (be it any other animal, a pig even). Especially when the poor person is BLIND!!!!

At times, hearing such stuff is extremely sad!!!
Muslims: you aren’t allowed to EAT the pig. And its not advisable to EAT a dog either. BUT come on!!! Some of you tend to take it too far. Just because you’re stupid doesnt mean you can easily brush it off and blame it on religion: “oh, my religion forbids it” … and then give the majority of us a bad name! *grumble grumble*

*coughs* same is the case with the veil issue. Stupid women with extreme inferiority complexes!!

# 38 Mike Voice said, on November 19th, 2006 at 11:59 am

37 … and then give the majority of us a bad name! *grumble grumble*

Yeah, I was thinking about that when reading this story – especially this section:
Since then, the taxi driver has filed a statement from a Muslim cleric stating that Islam has some restrictions towards certain animals, including dogs.

But Mitha says Gilmour has also filed a statement from a different Muslim cleric, stating that there can be exceptions to blanket refusals to deal with dogs, especially if it means helping someone in need.

Christianity, Islam, etc all encompass various sub-groups, which have internal dissention inside those groups… i.e. Episcopal church in-fighting regarding gay and female clergy.

But headlines tend to paint such groups with a broad, all-encompassing brush…

# 39 Named said, on November 19th, 2006 at 1:35 pm

34,

All religious legal courts were struck down in Ontario… Christianity, Islamic and Judaic.

# 40 tallwookie said, on November 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pm

ok – pet pigs i can see why they wouldnt want those… but DOGS?!!?! wtf

and to #19 – what about radio controlled animals

# 41 Mr. Fusion said, on November 19th, 2006 at 5:53 pm

#34, You are full of racist bull crap. That is quite simply NOT TRUE.

# 42 Mr. Fusion said, on November 19th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

OFTLO

I don’t remember where you drove, I think it might have been Minneapolis. In many jurisdictions I believe there are regulations for getting a Cab License. Most of these regulations require not only a knowledge of the city, but also requirements on discrimination. I agree that the driver has the right to refuse a fare under most circumstances, that right doesn’t include discrimination on religious, disability, sex, race, religion, etc.

Where I grew up, cabbies had to take a test in order to obtain a license. I don’t know about North Vancouver though. I would believe that the British Columbia Human Rights laws would prohibit discrimination on the bases of having a guide dog.

# 43 RBG said, on November 19th, 2006 at 11:45 pm

Gilmour is quoted as saying the cabbie simply yelled out to him, “No Dogs! No Dogs!” and then drove off. I wonder if he actually knew Gilmour was blind?

If Islam has no restrictions about being in close contact with dogs, why do the Saudis not associate with or have them? Is it like the veil issue that has its roots more in custom than religious dogma? (There was a good joke potential in that last statement, wasn’t there?)

You’d think the cab associations and regulations would have already contemplated such scenarios and have rules on such things already in place. Or alternatively, each cabbie must make full disclosure, via a check list, of any restrictions – religious, health, etc. – that might be relevant to the job.

RBG

# 44 RDaneelOlivaw said, on November 20th, 2006 at 4:44 am

Much like abortion and gay marriage which do not appear in the Christian Bible, hatred or shunning of dogs is not in the Qur’aan, but is rather a matter of Shar’ia. This is just another example of how organized religion corrupts matters of spirtual unity with God into irrational hatred of people or creatures.

# 45 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 20th, 2006 at 9:22 am

#43 – Or alternatively, each cabbie must make full disclosure, via a check list, of any restrictions – religious, health, etc. – that might be relevant to the job.

It’s not a job. Cabbies are their own bosses.

And I’m blown away that Republicans and/or conservatives are eager to regulate cab drivers. Or is it that you only oppose regulations that effects a chemical plant’s ability to dump toxins in a river or a CEOs ability to to be paid an 8 figure salary?

I’m not condoning this jack-ass cabbie’s actions… But you know… You just can’t tell these guys what to do. They don’t work for anyone but themselves.

# 46 RBG said, on November 20th, 2006 at 12:46 pm

45.
http://tinyurl.com/yaktyb
(2004) “The bylaw requires taxi drivers to complete both levels of the TaxiHost program, a two-part training program developed in 1994 by the Greater Vancouver Taxi Partnership Committee. It is already required by other municipalities in the GVRD.”

“North Shore advisory committee on disability issues chairwoman Connie Burns said most of her group’s members have had bad experiences with taxi service. Some drivers refuse to take guide dogs, communication can be difficult between customers who are hearing impaired and drivers whose first language isn’t English, some mobility units are not properly secured in the cab, waits for cabs are too long and some taxi cab drivers’ knowledge of local geography is poor, she said. ”

http://www.jibc.bc.ca/ptec/programs/TaxiHost/default.htm
“The Greater Vancouver Taxi Partnership Committee (GVTPC) developed TaxiHost in 1994 to help create a consistently high standard of taxicab service in the Greater Vancouver, British Columbia. The program includes applicant screening, training, and testing.”

http://taxi-reg.home.att.net/bctaxi.pdf
“Licensing and regulation of this industry occur primarily under the Motor Carrier Act and the Motor Vehicile Act. …

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab
Regulation:
“Both taxicabs and drivers are regulated to varying degrees in different places, from free-for-all to highly restrictive licensing schemes. In many countries, the number of taxis and the areas where they may operate are strictly controlled by a regulatory body. In regulated systems, a person must purchase a license or medallion if he or she wishes to own or operate a taxicab. In many jurisdictions, both owners and non-owning drivers of taxis are also tested and licensed by the police or the regulatory body. Police checks and more extensive background checks, training courses and chaperones are often used when drivers are asked to deal with special needs customers on a regular basis. See Taxicabs around the world for information about regulatory regimes in particular countries.”

RBG

# 47 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 20th, 2006 at 2:10 pm

#46 – Oh… Well in Canada…. I asked around and I was told Canada is a communist nation…

That’s why I take gypsy cabs everywhere I go

And really… Are you in support of all these regulations?

# 48 RBG said, on November 20th, 2006 at 2:59 pm

Convoluted bureaucratic regulation is the backbone of Democracy.

RBG

# 49 OhForTheLoveOf said, on November 20th, 2006 at 3:06 pm

#48 – I cannot – and will not – argue against you on that point

You know… Despite the fact that you spend so much time being wrong, you are still invited to all my backyard barbeques and you are on the Christmas card list… permanantly

# 50 Muhammad said, on December 22nd, 2006 at 11:21 pm

The cab driver was probably afraid of the dog. He could not find any other reason. Otherwise muslims have been keeping dogs even for hunting.

# 51 AMY said, on June 26th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

Rich, John Henri Allyn, Vic

You three are ignorant racist pricks. We are ALL immigrants here idiots. You three probably have KKK blood in you guys. We ALL have freedom of speech, including the cab driver. So get used to it. This is AMERICA

# 52 Jerk-Face said, on June 26th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

51. “We ALL have freedom of speech, including the cab driver.”

You’re right. Cab drivers have the right to speak their mind. But first, no one has any duty to listen. Second, they have no right to speak their mind while at work unless their employer lets them. And third, refusing to do their job is NOT speech, you ignorant bitch. God, you’re such a fucking moron!

If a cabbie refuses to pick up riders, he should quit or be fired. There is no other option.

# 53 service taxicab transportation said, on June 19th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

to be a taxicab driver is a decent job, but to have the attitude, it depends on the person. not all drivers sucks!!!

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