Questions continue to emerge over NYC police shooting of groom-to-be

Published on November 27th, 2006

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http://www.valiantdeath.com/.

This is the kind of thing that destroys a community’s faith in their law enforcement. It has long been a belief that doing anything remotely suspicious while black can be a death sentence, from Amadou Diallo to Timothy Stansbury to this most recent tragedy. Why did the officers fire so many times when nobody was shooting back?

Angry residents demanded to know yesterday why police officers killed an unarmed man on the day of his wedding, firing a hail of bullets that also wounded two of the man’s friends. Some called for the ouster of the city’s police commissioner.

The shootings occurred at about 4 a.m. Saturday outside the Kalua Cabaret, a strip club where Bell’s bachelor party was held. The survivors were Joseph Guzman, 31, who was shot at least 11 times, and Trent Benefield, 23, who was shot three times. Guzman was in critical condition yesterday and Benefield was stable.

The Police Department’s policy on shooting at moving vehicles states: “Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle.”

The car, driven by Bell, was struck by 21 of the police bullets after the vehicle rammed an undercover officer and hit an unmarked NYPD minivan. Other shots hit nearby homes and shattered windows at a train station, though no one else was injured.

It doesn’t even sound like the cops were aiming very carefully, either. According to the cops, the victim’s car rammed a police van, but what if they had opened fire on the car while it was in motion, and the collision was a result of the driver losing control after having been shot? I’d like to see the ballistics report from this case made public.

For the record, I have an interest in this case as Nicole Paultre, the bride-to-be, is a cousin of mine. I can’t help but wonder if the cops would have been as trigger-happy (one reloaded TWICE) if the car had been full of white boys.

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# 1 ghm101 said, on November 27th, 2006 at 5:48 am

America is a gun mad culture

Contrast this excess of force with the recent treatment of Michael Stone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6181994.stm, in Northern Island.

No one would have been surprised if they had shot this loyalist killer on the first opportunity.

Instead they disarmed him.

# 2 Venom Monger said, on November 27th, 2006 at 5:56 am

America is a gun mad culture

So what? What does this have to do with the behavior of the police in this situation?

# 3 ghm101 said, on November 27th, 2006 at 6:06 am

To #2 So What?

It is that culturally the gun is seen as the first solution to a situation rather than the last.

thats what

# 4 Named said, on November 27th, 2006 at 6:32 am

Didn’t the brave british police gun down an electrician for no reason other than that he ran from a bunch of undercover thugs chasing him? The demarcation for all these events is COLOUR! You white? You’re good. Anything else is target practice.

# 5 Wally said, on November 27th, 2006 at 6:39 am

Unless he had a gun and was pointing it at the police officers or firing it, there should have never been any gun fire by the police.

Not knowing the exact details of the situation, I just feel sorry for the familys of those shot. I also have sympathy for the families of the police officers, because they are going to endure a lot of bad stuff from this.

The cops, I believe they probably are power mad murderers and because they are cops, will probably never see the inside of a jail as an inmate

# 6 DWright said, on November 27th, 2006 at 6:49 am

Does anyone ever question why, for example, when running from a cop they have the right to shoot us? They are in no danger except that their authority is denied.
Now, someone running into your house and threating you? No, no, you don’t have the same right.

# 7 Gig said, on November 27th, 2006 at 7:16 am

Let’s see they ran over a person and rammed a police van. I think that the “victims” used deadly force too.

# 8 Billabong said, on November 27th, 2006 at 7:17 am

What happened is that one trigger happy cop started shooting and the rest thought they were being shot at.It is called a police riot or cluster F*** in the military.It happens all to often when people feel they are in danger.The sad part is if you give a group of people guns the cluster F*** rule kicks in.

# 9 Smartalix said, on November 27th, 2006 at 7:23 am

As I mentioned in my post, how do we know they rammed the police van before the shooting started? What if the police started shooting at the car while it was still in motion? All we know at this point is what the police claim.

# 10 Roc Rizzo said, on November 27th, 2006 at 7:33 am

NYC police have been out of hand for DECADES. As long as I can remember, there have been cops who do not believe that they have to obey the law, because they ARE the law. As long as this attitude propagates itself in the minds of officers, they are going to think that.

Perhaps they should consider themselves peace officers. People who keep the peace, and do it with as little violence as possible. Police get too much training on how to deal with extreme situations. When they go out into the street, they immediately think that a situation could escalate into an extreme, though had they used less force, and more common sense, the incident could be avoided.

# 11 AB CD said, on November 27th, 2006 at 7:51 am

NYPD has more cops than ever, but their shootings are down, at least while Giuliani was mayor.

# 12 Old Number 7 said, on November 27th, 2006 at 8:02 am

Something is fishy here. What were these guys doing outside a strip club at 4am the day the groom is being married? Were they having the batchelor party the day before the wedding?

# 13 Major Jizz said, on November 27th, 2006 at 8:43 am

This just proves how much of a sewer New York really is. Their cops are just obedient rats working for Bloomberg.

# 14 Named said, on November 27th, 2006 at 9:16 am

12,

Being at a strip club at 4am the night before your wedding is de rigeur…

# 15 chitown said, on November 27th, 2006 at 9:25 am

here are the questions I have , based on what I have read and heard about the case?

(1) were any of the shooting victims a target of the undercover operation?

(2) if so, what was the probable cause for placing the victims under investigation?

(3) Which officer was in charge at the time of the shooting?

(4) The police say that an officer and a van were stuck by the victims’ car, at the time this happened, were the police trying to arrest the occupants of the car?

(5) If an arrest was being attempted, why not intercept the men before they entered their car?

Not being local person(see the name) perhaps I have missed a lot of the news. but from I have read and heard , I don’t believe that any of the above questions have been answered. they may help to clear up this story.

# 16 andrewj said, on November 27th, 2006 at 10:10 am

“Unless he had a gun and was pointing it at the police officers or firing it, there should have never been any gun fire by the police.”
————————–
A vehicle is a 2 ton bullet.

# 17 Smartalix said, on November 27th, 2006 at 10:50 am

16,

I point out again, we have no idea when and under what circumstances the vehicle struck the police van. Considering the sheer number of rounds fired, it is very possible that the driver was shot first and lost control, striking the van.

# 18 sirfelix said, on November 27th, 2006 at 11:31 am

“It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting…”

Imagine if these officers were being trained in a http://www.virtra.com use-of-force system when one of them did this: One (officer) fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines..

The NYPD training budget could easily afford these type virtual training systems. How many do you think they could have bought with the settlement funds this case will cost the city?

# 19 ECA said, on November 27th, 2006 at 12:23 pm

OK,
a plain clothes officer trys to stop these men, and he gets a Good bump from the car as they TRY to get away.. These guys were in a bar, for A long time, and you dont think they may have been abit drunk??

so this officer probably Stands in front of the car to stop them. and gets hit. The cops second opens fire, and they ram the VAN, which was probably Blocking the parking area…

# 20 Smartalix said, on November 27th, 2006 at 12:46 pm

Considering that the driver was a gainfully-employed young man on the eve of his wedding, I doubt that ramming a police car was on the top of his list of desired actions.

What is more plausible, that someone under a hail of gunfire would ram police vehicles twice without stopping, or that skittish cops opened fire on a car they (wrongly) believed to be full of drug dealers killing the driver and causing the car to go out of control and strike their vehicles? Even the cops admit it was a low-speed impact.

# 21 Named said, on November 27th, 2006 at 1:12 pm

19,

More details…
http://tinyurl.com/y44ggv

# 22 Smartalix said, on November 27th, 2006 at 2:13 pm

That account makes even more sense:

“The minivan came around the corner and smashed into their car. And they (the police) jumped out shooting,” Wright, 28, told the newspaper. “No `stop.’ No `freeze.’ No nothing.”

Overzealous cops, insufficient training, dead people.

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