Comments on: Jose Padilla’s “unprecedented [treatment] in the military justice system” http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/ General interest observations and true web-log. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:53:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Arbo Cide http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-3/#comment-391999 Arbo Cide Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:36:52 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-391999 Muhammad Ali once beat up his opponent for calling him Cassius Clay. Why do you all keep saying Jose Padilla? His name is Abdullah al-Muhajir. Muhammad Ali once beat up his opponent for calling him Cassius Clay. Why do you all keep saying Jose Padilla? His name is Abdullah al-Muhajir.

]]> By: N of the 49th http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-3/#comment-391688 N of the 49th Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:26:05 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-391688 I didn't read all the comments. Basically I'm sick and fucking tired of a country that STARTS A FUCKING WAR, then justifies torture, loss of freedoms etc by citing THAT VERY SAME WAR. YOU STARTED (OR BUSH ADMIN DID)THE FUCKING WAR. DO YOU NOT SEE THE HYPOCRISY IN USING THAT VERY SAME WAR TO JUSTIFY THE GOVT ACTION. Personnally I think the US has lost it's way, corporate greed has taken over your country and is affecting your policies. The current situation is going to take decades to repair. You can not kill someones family, call it "collateral damage" and not expect them to respond now or in the future. Individually I've found Americans to be pleasant, but your(current) govt is a hateful greedy beast eerily similar to the puritans that helped settle America. Which is not a good thing. All I can say is Good Luck, you'll need it I didn’t read all the comments.

Basically I’m sick and fucking tired of a country that STARTS A FUCKING WAR, then justifies torture, loss of freedoms etc by citing THAT VERY SAME WAR.

YOU STARTED (OR BUSH ADMIN DID)THE FUCKING WAR. DO YOU NOT SEE THE HYPOCRISY IN USING THAT VERY SAME WAR TO JUSTIFY THE GOVT ACTION.

Personnally I think the US has lost it’s way, corporate greed has taken over your country and is affecting your policies. The current situation is going to take decades to repair. You can not kill someones family, call it “collateral damage” and not expect them to respond now or in the future.

Individually I’ve found Americans to be pleasant, but your(current) govt is a hateful greedy beast eerily similar to the puritans that helped settle America. Which is not a good thing.

All I can say is Good Luck, you’ll need it

]]> By: Thomas http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-3/#comment-391646 Thomas Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:37:27 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-391646 #10, #3 The question is not whether the person responsible should be punished. The question has always been whether they got the right guy. Where is the evidence that supports the claim that Padilla did what he said he did? The core issue is that this US citizen was denied his Constitutional rights requiring his accusers to establish the veracity of their claim in a court of law. How many times have the police been caught making up evidence? How many times have the police mistakenly gotten the wrong guy? Look at the case of the Duke lacrosse kids. Even after DNA evidence established that they did not rape that girl, the government still wanted to put them away. #10, #3
The question is not whether the person responsible should be punished. The question has always been whether they got the right guy. Where is the evidence that supports the claim that Padilla did what he said he did? The core issue is that this US citizen was denied his Constitutional rights requiring his accusers to establish the veracity of their claim in a court of law. How many times have the police been caught making up evidence? How many times have the police mistakenly gotten the wrong guy? Look at the case of the Duke lacrosse kids. Even after DNA evidence established that they did not rape that girl, the government still wanted to put them away.

]]> By: Mr. Fusion http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-391496 Mr. Fusion Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:44:29 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-391496 <i>O well, this ahole wouldn’t think twice about killing any American. All in the name of his backwards ass religion. I wouldn’t care if he ever saw the light of day again. Comment by gquaglia — 12/4/2006 @ 11:18 am </i> Isn't it great being a dipshit. Then advertising to the world just how much of a dipshit you are. There is no evidence to even suggest that Padilla wanted to kill anyone. Yet, the mere suggestion by this administration that Padilla is somehow is a terrorist is enough to send the dipshits like you screaming in hysterical delight that the sky is falling. <i>It also sends a message to all other would be jerk off terrorist, no civil rights, no slick, free attorney to get you off on a technicality, no hope of freedom. He deserves everything he gets. Comment by gquaglia — 12/4/2006 @ 11:18 am </i> And when the “aholes” that tortured Padilla end up going before a military tribunal on charges of torture, then where will you be. Still screaming “he had it coming”, “the man with the gun rules”, “obey law and order”? Will they then be screaming for one of those “slick” lawyers. gq, many times I have accused you of trolling. This, however, is past trolling. I just can not envision any one suggesting the victim of torture deserved it. Yet you have somehow transcended all bounds of the rule of law and human decency and blamed a tortured person for his own plight. Damn am I glad you are not an American. O well, this ahole wouldn’t think twice about killing any American. All in the name of his backwards ass religion. I wouldn’t care if he ever saw the light of day again.
Comment by gquaglia — 12/4/2006 @ 11:18 am

Isn’t it great being a dipshit. Then advertising to the world just how much of a dipshit you are. There is no evidence to even suggest that Padilla wanted to kill anyone. Yet, the mere suggestion by this administration that Padilla is somehow is a terrorist is enough to send the dipshits like you screaming in hysterical delight that the sky is falling.

It also sends a message to all other would be jerk off terrorist, no civil rights, no slick, free attorney to get you off on a technicality, no hope of freedom. He deserves everything he gets.
Comment by gquaglia — 12/4/2006 @ 11:18 am

And when the “aholes” that tortured Padilla end up going before a military tribunal on charges of torture, then where will you be. Still screaming “he had it coming”, “the man with the gun rules”, “obey law and order”? Will they then be screaming for one of those “slick” lawyers.

gq, many times I have accused you of trolling. This, however, is past trolling. I just can not envision any one suggesting the victim of torture deserved it. Yet you have somehow transcended all bounds of the rule of law and human decency and blamed a tortured person for his own plight. Damn am I glad you are not an American.

]]> By: Arbo Cide http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-391077 Arbo Cide Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:28:06 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-391077 You mention trials for the journalist, but what about the insurgents/freedomfighters/militiamen who have been captured? You mention trials for the journalist, but what about the insurgents/freedomfighters/militiamen who have been captured?

]]> By: KBallweg http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390982 KBallweg Tue, 05 Dec 2006 05:13:24 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390982 And no, Tokyo Rose is not a counter example, she was a avowed traitor, and she was tried. Period. Comment by Lee I know Lee is trying to advocate for a more reasonable voice, but it's interesting that the "traitor" he cites was actually framed by the FBI, and later granted a full presidential pardon. So much for people learning from history. Tokyo Rose was actually multiple voices, The one person convicted was actually only minorly involved. Following is from WikkiPedia: "Iva Toguri D'Aquino was , a U.S. citizen visiting relatives in Japan at the start of the war. Unable to leave Japan after the start of hostilities, she took work at the Japanese radio show The Zero Hour. After the war, she was investigated and released when the FBI and the U.S. Army's Counter Intelligence Corps found no evidence against her, but influential gossip columnist Walter Winchell lobbied against her. She was brought to the U.S., where she was charged and subsequently convicted of treason. In 1949, testimony led to D'Aquino being convicted of one of eight counts of treason by the U.S. government.[ She was given a sentence of 10 years and a $10,000 fine. After six years, she was released and moved to Chicago, Illinois, where Chicago Tribune reporter Ron Yates identified her. Yates later went on to discover that Kenkichi Oki and George Mitsushio, who delivered the most damaging testimony, lied under oath.They stated they had been threatened by the FBI and U.S. occupation police and told what to say and what not to say just hours before the trial. On January 19, 1977, she was pardoned by U.S. President Gerald Ford, who also restored her citizenship." The problem with passionate Witch Hunts and Inquisitions is that they don't really make you safer. They actually put you at risk of being the hunted one day. And no, Tokyo Rose is not a counter example, she was a avowed traitor, and she was tried. Period.

Comment by Lee

I know Lee is trying to advocate for a more reasonable voice, but it’s interesting that the “traitor” he cites was actually framed by the FBI, and later granted a full presidential pardon. So much for people learning from history.

Tokyo Rose was actually multiple voices, The one person convicted was actually only minorly involved.

Following is from WikkiPedia: “Iva Toguri D’Aquino was , a U.S. citizen visiting relatives in Japan at the start of the war. Unable to leave Japan after the start of hostilities, she took work at the Japanese radio show The Zero Hour. After the war, she was investigated and released when the FBI and the U.S. Army’s Counter Intelligence Corps found no evidence against her, but influential gossip columnist Walter Winchell lobbied against her. She was brought to the U.S., where she was charged and subsequently convicted of treason.

In 1949, testimony led to D’Aquino being convicted of one of eight counts of treason by the U.S. government.[ She was given a sentence of 10 years and a $10,000 fine. After six years, she was released and moved to Chicago, Illinois, where Chicago Tribune reporter Ron Yates identified her. Yates later went on to discover that Kenkichi Oki and George Mitsushio, who delivered the most damaging testimony, lied under oath.They stated they had been threatened by the FBI and U.S. occupation police and told what to say and what not to say just hours before the trial. On January 19, 1977, she was pardoned by U.S. President Gerald Ford, who also restored her citizenship.”

The problem with passionate Witch Hunts and Inquisitions is that they don’t really make you safer. They actually put you at risk of being the hunted one day.

]]> By: Pat http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390809 Pat Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:23:19 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390809 I can't believe people are taking this at face value. First throw out everything his lawyer says because that is like taking Bush at face value, both are clearly biased. With that in mind read the story again. It was a long winded story about someone getting shackled before getting taken to get a root canal (and they probably had extra security because it is the dentist, lots of sharp and pointy objects). This just looked like standard procedure. I can’t believe people are taking this at face value. First throw out everything his lawyer says because that is like taking Bush at face value, both are clearly biased. With that in mind read the story again. It was a long winded story about someone getting shackled before getting taken to get a root canal (and they probably had extra security because it is the dentist, lots of sharp and pointy objects). This just looked like standard procedure.

]]> By: Curmudgen http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390791 Curmudgen Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:59:12 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390791 Free Kevin Mitnick!!!! :) Free Kevin Mitnick!!!! :)

]]> By: catbeller http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390743 catbeller Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:48:31 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390743 And oh yes. Those torturing Padilla against the law, those hiding in the dark, are protecting no one except themselves. Protecting themselves from a life sentence for conspiracy to kidnap, multiple aggravated assault and battery, probably rape, deviant sexual assault, illegal restraint, violations of the Geneva Accords, which are the law of the U.S. I'm typing at my little keyboard, safe from harm because of the efforts of true heroes. The filth who did this to Padilla have protected no one but themselves. He was ordered released for lack of evidence. They don't want him to talk. I assume they'll keep him in sensory dep until his mind is completely gone, and then, then they'll be safe -- from the justice of the laws of the United States, and the laws of the world. The terrorists are those hiding in those dark little torture factories, shaking, doing anything they can to keep these victims broken and hidden. They know damned well that the press blamed one 18 year old teenaged girl private for all the torture in Iraq; they also know that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Gonzales will blame the men who actually held the electrodes. They know, oh yes, they will get the blame. And oh yes. Those torturing Padilla against the law, those hiding in the dark, are protecting no one except themselves. Protecting themselves from a life sentence for conspiracy to kidnap, multiple aggravated assault and battery, probably rape, deviant sexual assault, illegal restraint, violations of the Geneva Accords, which are the law of the U.S.

I’m typing at my little keyboard, safe from harm because of the efforts of true heroes. The filth who did this to Padilla have protected no one but themselves. He was ordered released for lack of evidence. They don’t want him to talk. I assume they’ll keep him in sensory dep until his mind is completely gone, and then, then they’ll be safe — from the justice of the laws of the United States, and the laws of the world. The terrorists are those hiding in those dark little torture factories, shaking, doing anything they can to keep these victims broken and hidden. They know damned well that the press blamed one 18 year old teenaged girl private for all the torture in Iraq; they also know that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Gonzales will blame the men who actually held the electrodes. They know, oh yes, they will get the blame.

]]> By: jccalhoun http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390738 jccalhoun Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:42:14 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390738 Just remember Jose Padilla was arrested on US soil suspected of planning to commit a crime and has been held for years without even being charged while John Walker Lindh was found in Afghanistan actively fighting against the USA and got a trial. Why is one an "enemy combatant" while the other one isn't??? Just remember Jose Padilla was arrested on US soil suspected of planning to commit a crime and has been held for years without even being charged while John Walker Lindh was found in Afghanistan actively fighting against the USA and got a trial.
Why is one an “enemy combatant” while the other one isn’t???

]]> By: catbeller http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390726 catbeller Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:33:40 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390726 We defend those who are presumed innocent, those who have no voice, no rights, no existence, those who are being tortured, because some assholes don't understand the elementary principles of our nation. Hundreds of those kidnap victims have already been released. The charges against Padilla have been dismissed because Bush's people could produce no evidence to back up their claims. None. He is being held illegally by Bush's people, as the courts have ordered him released. I challenge all of you apologists to cite one, just ONE SINGLE CHARGE under which he is being held. Is he being tortured because he has been tortured? Is he guilty because he has been tortured, and only guilty people get tortured? Apparently, YES! We defend those who are presumed innocent, those who have no voice, no rights, no existence, those who are being tortured, because some assholes don’t understand the elementary principles of our nation. Hundreds of those kidnap victims have already been released. The charges against Padilla have been dismissed because Bush’s people could produce no evidence to back up their claims. None. He is being held illegally by Bush’s people, as the courts have ordered him released. I challenge all of you apologists to cite one, just ONE SINGLE CHARGE under which he is being held.

Is he being tortured because he has been tortured? Is he guilty because he has been tortured, and only guilty people get tortured? Apparently, YES!

]]> By: Lee http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390721 Lee Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:30:53 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390721 #31 If we are to practice what we preach, yes; we can start with all of the photographers and journalists we are holding without charge. And before you say "They were terrorist sympathizers etc." remember that we did not imprison German Italian, or Japanese journalists in WWII when they wrote from the front to their papers, so why do it now? It's not like we didn't know that was going to be grist for the propaganda mill. And no, Tokyo Rose is not a counter example, she was a avowed traitor, and she was tried. Period. #31 If we are to practice what we preach, yes; we can start with all of the photographers and journalists we are holding without charge. And before you say “They were terrorist sympathizers etc.” remember that we did not imprison German Italian, or Japanese journalists in WWII when they wrote from the front to their papers, so why do it now? It’s not like we didn’t know that was going to be grist for the propaganda mill.

And no, Tokyo Rose is not a counter example, she was a avowed traitor, and she was tried. Period.

]]> By: Arbo Cide http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390706 Arbo Cide Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:16:55 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390706 How many people taken prisoner by the miltary in Iraq have gotten trials? Do you think they should all get trials, as well as the Taliban in Afghanistan? How many people taken prisoner by the miltary in Iraq have gotten trials? Do you think they should all get trials, as well as the Taliban in Afghanistan?

]]> By: Scott Gant http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390702 Scott Gant Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:11:36 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390702 So let me get this straight gquaglia, you're for American Citizens being swept away forever just because they "may" be terrorists without a trial? Forget evidence, proof, a trial etc etc. We don't know any of this about him, it's all here say about him so far as he hasn't been put on trial nor has evidence officially been rendered. You really want that gquaglia? That's your way of beating the terrorists? You really stand by that? So then, it wouldn't be any big deal to accuse you then with no evidence, right? I mean, that's the way it should be right? I think I can make quite a case against you as an enemy of the people of the US from your various posts here...especially with a Democratic congress coming to power. I mean, you "may" be a terrorist. Who knows. Best we lock you away "just in case". Right? This goofball here, Padilla, is "probably" guilty of a ton of stuff. But who the hell knows? He didn't have a trial. Even Saddam had at least a fake trial. So let me get this straight gquaglia, you’re for American Citizens being swept away forever just because they “may” be terrorists without a trial? Forget evidence, proof, a trial etc etc. We don’t know any of this about him, it’s all here say about him so far as he hasn’t been put on trial nor has evidence officially been rendered. You really want that gquaglia? That’s your way of beating the terrorists? You really stand by that?

So then, it wouldn’t be any big deal to accuse you then with no evidence, right? I mean, that’s the way it should be right? I think I can make quite a case against you as an enemy of the people of the US from your various posts here…especially with a Democratic congress coming to power. I mean, you “may” be a terrorist. Who knows. Best we lock you away “just in case”. Right?

This goofball here, Padilla, is “probably” guilty of a ton of stuff. But who the hell knows? He didn’t have a trial. Even Saddam had at least a fake trial.

]]> By: jbellies http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2006/12/04/jose-padillas-unprecedented-treatment-in-the-military-justice-system/comment-page-2/#comment-390694 jbellies Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:06:54 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8454#comment-390694 On The Prisoner (TV series with Patrick McGoohan), the interrogator in chief (Number 2) was demoted or liquidated if he didn't get Number 6 to squeal within one episode (a week?). So in three and a half years, they would have gone through 182 Number Twos. If Zinc Bushing Inc, had a system like that, the prisoner would have been convicted or released long ago. As things stand, it looks like the goal of the authorities is torture world without end, amen. Paychecks and sado-rushes for life is sweet. He's probably already confessed to spying for the Carthaginians, plotting to assassinate Hitler, and killing Papa Doc with Voodoo. But shhhhhhh! He's our candidate rice bowl. On The Prisoner (TV series with Patrick McGoohan), the interrogator in chief (Number 2) was demoted or liquidated if he didn’t get Number 6 to squeal within one episode (a week?). So in three and a half years, they would have gone through 182 Number Twos.

If Zinc Bushing Inc, had a system like that, the prisoner would have been convicted or released long ago. As things stand, it looks like the goal of the authorities is torture world without end, amen. Paychecks and sado-rushes for life is sweet. He’s probably already confessed to spying for the Carthaginians, plotting to assassinate Hitler, and killing Papa Doc with Voodoo. But shhhhhhh! He’s our candidate rice bowl.

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