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	<title>Comments on: WikiPedia Founder Throws in Towel &#8212; Restarts With Citizendium</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: waso</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-1035613</link>
		<dc:creator>waso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-1035613</guid>
		<description>hello world</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello world</p>
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		<title>By: Dan F.</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-448871</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-448871</guid>
		<description>I hope that both Wikipedia and Citizendium succeed.  The competition will make them stronger and better.  We will all benefit.

The contributors to Wikipedia and Citizendium are all trying to make the world better educated.  I applaud them all and wish them success.

By the way, there is also another free encyclopedia out there called Scholarpedia.  It is just getting started.  It is not that extensive but hopes to grow and add more articles.

I also hope that World Book and Encyclopedia Britannica are watching and learning some lessons.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that both Wikipedia and Citizendium succeed.  The competition will make them stronger and better.  We will all benefit.</p>
<p>The contributors to Wikipedia and Citizendium are all trying to make the world better educated.  I applaud them all and wish them success.</p>
<p>By the way, there is also another free encyclopedia out there called Scholarpedia.  It is just getting started.  It is not that extensive but hopes to grow and add more articles.</p>
<p>I also hope that World Book and Encyclopedia Britannica are watching and learning some lessons.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Ewen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-448055</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Ewen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-448055</guid>
		<description>I am curious if you would feel the same way if you published a book and it were available for sale on .amazon.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am curious if you would feel the same way if you published a book and it were available for sale on .amazon.com.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-446762</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-446762</guid>
		<description>I double checked it -- they insist that you publish under your real name, which will be publicly available, including a bio of you.. 

This is just not recommended in this day-and-age of on-line stockers and identity thieves. (Or smart personnel directors who google the names of job applicants to gather a candid insight into them!)

Sorry. I&#039;m not doing it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I double checked it &#8212; they insist that you publish under your real name, which will be publicly available, including a bio of you.. </p>
<p>This is just not recommended in this day-and-age of on-line stockers and identity thieves. (Or smart personnel directors who google the names of job applicants to gather a candid insight into them!)</p>
<p>Sorry. I&#8217;m not doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: venom monger</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-444946</link>
		<dc:creator>venom monger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-444946</guid>
		<description>Dead-tree encyclopedias were (are?) around for many decades.   And Britannica didn&#039;t make World Book moot.  Nor any of the other dozens of publications that were successful (and loved.  I read World Book from A to Z before I was a teenager.) 

Don&#039;t look at CZ as an attempt to dethrone wikipedia...  they should be able to co-exist, with some friendly competition, for the forseeable future, and each will have its place.  Plenty of room for both (and more.)   

I have found wikipedia incredibly useful, but it does require you to have the salt shaker handy sometimes.   Addressing some of its limitations seems to be a worthwhile effort from my point of view, and can only help both users and contributors. 

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dead-tree encyclopedias were (are?) around for many decades.   And Britannica didn&#8217;t make World Book moot.  Nor any of the other dozens of publications that were successful (and loved.  I read World Book from A to Z before I was a teenager.) </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t look at CZ as an attempt to dethrone wikipedia&#8230;  they should be able to co-exist, with some friendly competition, for the forseeable future, and each will have its place.  Plenty of room for both (and more.)   </p>
<p>I have found wikipedia incredibly useful, but it does require you to have the salt shaker handy sometimes.   Addressing some of its limitations seems to be a worthwhile effort from my point of view, and can only help both users and contributors.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-444458</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-444458</guid>
		<description>#10....Picked any cotton lately?

#11.....while I agree with you about security issues......think about Youtube and Myspace and what people put on those sites and I think you&#039;ll notice that their are a LOT of dummies out there.     :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10&#8230;.Picked any cotton lately?</p>
<p>#11&#8230;..while I agree with you about security issues&#8230;&#8230;think about Youtube and Myspace and what people put on those sites and I think you&#8217;ll notice that their are a LOT of dummies out there.     <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-444377</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-444377</guid>
		<description>I chedked the effort and I noticed they require you to use your real name to participate. (Even for minors!)

In this age of on-line harassment and surveillance, isn&#039;t that unwise?

Are they going to allow nicknames?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I chedked the effort and I noticed they require you to use your real name to participate. (Even for minors!)</p>
<p>In this age of on-line harassment and surveillance, isn&#8217;t that unwise?</p>
<p>Are they going to allow nicknames?</p>
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		<title>By: BgScryAnml</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-444039</link>
		<dc:creator>BgScryAnml</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-444039</guid>
		<description>Citizen is synonyms with Slave in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  This is a poor choice of titles for such a site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen is synonyms with Slave in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  This is a poor choice of titles for such a site.</p>
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		<title>By: TJGeezer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443966</link>
		<dc:creator>TJGeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443966</guid>
		<description>#8 - I know I&#039;m going to regret this, but. The line is a riff on misspellings common in chat rooms. Start with &quot;!&quot; being the shifted &quot;1&quot; and the idea of an excited teenie having finger stutters. Add typos for &quot;the best&quot;.

Humor is never funny when it is explained. Anyway, the satirical web-lingo subject line was a left-handed tip of the hat to whatever wag inserted the &quot;man boobs&quot; gag into an otherwise serious Powhattan article. (An insertion quickly removed by Wikipedia, by the way.)

Believe it or not, my son&#039;s a pretty bright guy. Even if he does send me remarks, for example, about the latest Homeland Security policy gaffe, followed by &quot;I feel safer already! W00t!!11&quot; 

#7 - &lt;i&gt;Maybe we can be a “what not to do” test case.&lt;/i&gt;
Best idea you&#039;ve had all day. Heh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8 &#8211; I know I&#8217;m going to regret this, but. The line is a riff on misspellings common in chat rooms. Start with &#8220;!&#8221; being the shifted &#8220;1&#8243; and the idea of an excited teenie having finger stutters. Add typos for &#8220;the best&#8221;.</p>
<p>Humor is never funny when it is explained. Anyway, the satirical web-lingo subject line was a left-handed tip of the hat to whatever wag inserted the &#8220;man boobs&#8221; gag into an otherwise serious Powhattan article. (An insertion quickly removed by Wikipedia, by the way.)</p>
<p>Believe it or not, my son&#8217;s a pretty bright guy. Even if he does send me remarks, for example, about the latest Homeland Security policy gaffe, followed by &#8220;I feel safer already! W00t!!11&#8243; </p>
<p>#7 &#8211; <i>Maybe we can be a “what not to do” test case.</i><br />
Best idea you&#8217;ve had all day. Heh.</p>
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		<title>By: Slappy</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443906</link>
		<dc:creator>Slappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 01:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443906</guid>
		<description>#4 How did someone who wrote &quot;Wikipedia is teh bets!!!111&quot; find wikipedia? ;-)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4 How did someone who wrote &#8220;Wikipedia is teh bets!!!111&#8243; find wikipedia? <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443847</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443847</guid>
		<description>#4 - I think what #2 is saying clarifys the story quite a bit. This isn&#039;t supposed to be about enhancing WikiPedia, it&#039;s about starting a new, more refined process for developing information.

#2 - I agree that experts should have a role, and I think both experts and non-experts can participate together in Citizendium, with both enhancing the site. A more defined process would be welcomed as to insure accuracy.

My question then becomes how do you sell it, or do you believe the concept will sell itself... as WikiPedia did?

Likewise, what is (and can be) done to reprogram people to start typing in Citizendium.org as opposed to Wikipedia.org? I needed to look up some information on FireWire a few hours ago, and directly went to WikiPedia... not even thinking of Citizendium.

(Note #2&#039;s name: I don&#039;t know why Mr. Sanger is looking for intelligence on Dvorak&#039;s site. Maybe we can be a &quot;what not to do&quot; test case.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4 &#8211; I think what #2 is saying clarifys the story quite a bit. This isn&#8217;t supposed to be about enhancing WikiPedia, it&#8217;s about starting a new, more refined process for developing information.</p>
<p>#2 &#8211; I agree that experts should have a role, and I think both experts and non-experts can participate together in Citizendium, with both enhancing the site. A more defined process would be welcomed as to insure accuracy.</p>
<p>My question then becomes how do you sell it, or do you believe the concept will sell itself&#8230; as WikiPedia did?</p>
<p>Likewise, what is (and can be) done to reprogram people to start typing in Citizendium.org as opposed to Wikipedia.org? I needed to look up some information on FireWire a few hours ago, and directly went to WikiPedia&#8230; not even thinking of Citizendium.</p>
<p>(Note #2&#8242;s name: I don&#8217;t know why Mr. Sanger is looking for intelligence on Dvorak&#8217;s site. Maybe we can be a &#8220;what not to do&#8221; test case.)</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Sanger</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443836</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443836</guid>
		<description>Wow--

It&#039;s not the same as Wikipedia; see http://www.citizendium.org/ for the basics.

As to why it can&#039;t be done by Wikipedia--see http://www.citizendium.org/essay.html (the section about Wikipedia)

And it&#039;s hardly &quot;doomed,&quot; as it is growing like gangbusters and it hasn&#039;t even had a public release yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8211;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the same as Wikipedia; see <a href="http://www.citizendium.org/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.citizendium.org/' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.citizendium.org/</a> for the basics.</p>
<p>As to why it can&#8217;t be done by Wikipedia&#8211;see <a href="http://www.citizendium.org/essay.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.citizendium.org/essay.html' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.citizendium.org/essay.html</a> (the section about Wikipedia)</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s hardly &#8220;doomed,&#8221; as it is growing like gangbusters and it hasn&#8217;t even had a public release yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443769</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443769</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s doomed.  Maybe if you&#039;d tried this a wee bit earlier...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s doomed.  Maybe if you&#8217;d tried this a wee bit earlier&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TJGeezer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443675</link>
		<dc:creator>TJGeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443675</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t understand is why it couldn&#039;t simply be done through Wikipedia - a layer of continuing expert review. Why set up a new branch, given the Wikipedia&#039;s huge body of (mostly) well researched and well written articles on everything under the sun?

Not to mention the fun little goofs that college kids (I presume) like to insert. My son sent me an email once, subject line &quot;Wikipedia is teh bets!!!111,&quot; that quoted a quickly altered line in a piece on native peoples of eastern Virginia: &quot;Powhatan, who later got bigger man boobs, reportedly produced several English-made iron implements to back his claim.&quot; I just don&#039;t see where a branch run by experts can improve on such a place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t understand is why it couldn&#8217;t simply be done through Wikipedia &#8211; a layer of continuing expert review. Why set up a new branch, given the Wikipedia&#8217;s huge body of (mostly) well researched and well written articles on everything under the sun?</p>
<p>Not to mention the fun little goofs that college kids (I presume) like to insert. My son sent me an email once, subject line &#8220;Wikipedia is teh bets!!!111,&#8221; that quoted a quickly altered line in a piece on native peoples of eastern Virginia: &#8220;Powhatan, who later got bigger man boobs, reportedly produced several English-made iron implements to back his claim.&#8221; I just don&#8217;t see where a branch run by experts can improve on such a place.</p>
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		<title>By: Brucemlloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/01/23/wikipedia-founder-throws-in-towel-restarts-with-citizendium/comment-page-1/#comment-443668</link>
		<dc:creator>Brucemlloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9382#comment-443668</guid>
		<description>Sounds like the exact same thing as Wikipedia. 

This time next year: Wikipedia 1, Citizendium: who cares?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like the exact same thing as Wikipedia. </p>
<p>This time next year: Wikipedia 1, Citizendium: who cares?</p>
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