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	<title>Comments on: Judge Strikes Down Internet Porn Law Allegedly Passed &#8220;for the Children&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: nonStatist</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-546612</link>
		<dc:creator>nonStatist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-546612</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t need any regulation of the internet. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need any regulation of the internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Angel H. Wong</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-544658</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel H. Wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-544658</guid>
		<description>#16

I knew you&#039;d say that :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16</p>
<p>I knew you&#8217;d say that <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Richard Brill</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-544422</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Brill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-544422</guid>
		<description>The less laws that are propsed the better off we are.

Its the parents responcibility to monitor thier childrens behavior not society. 

Is it ok for parent to have Vicodens, Valiums, Jack Daniels, Marlboros,  Guns, Playboys, trojans, vibrators, adult movies, adult content TV and numerous adult items in their homes but when it comes to the internet the same parents want it to be safe for thier children?...geese come on now. 

Next take a trip to your local store. Turn on the radio and you here adult content. every oneabee disk jockey is trying to emulate shock jock Howard Stern.

You pass a bill board that contains a sexy model doing whatever...

 Then once your in the store the children are exposed to adult conent, beer, magazines and some scary looking people.

What I find alarming is the adult content hat is in this generations cartoons Like king of the hill or the simpsons.

So whats the alternative.... a represed society where woman wear veils and people have no rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The less laws that are propsed the better off we are.</p>
<p>Its the parents responcibility to monitor thier childrens behavior not society. </p>
<p>Is it ok for parent to have Vicodens, Valiums, Jack Daniels, Marlboros,  Guns, Playboys, trojans, vibrators, adult movies, adult content TV and numerous adult items in their homes but when it comes to the internet the same parents want it to be safe for thier children?&#8230;geese come on now. </p>
<p>Next take a trip to your local store. Turn on the radio and you here adult content. every oneabee disk jockey is trying to emulate shock jock Howard Stern.</p>
<p>You pass a bill board that contains a sexy model doing whatever&#8230;</p>
<p> Then once your in the store the children are exposed to adult conent, beer, magazines and some scary looking people.</p>
<p>What I find alarming is the adult content hat is in this generations cartoons Like king of the hill or the simpsons.</p>
<p>So whats the alternative&#8230;. a represed society where woman wear veils and people have no rights.</p>
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		<title>By: yuval</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-544417</link>
		<dc:creator>yuval</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-544417</guid>
		<description>Parents will monitor their kids anyway in a few years when they&#039;ll be hooked up to the VR set in the same room as the child throughout most of the day.

our way of life already becomes increasingly multi-tasked while in the next decade our geographical location will become quite fixed by virtual reality. at the end of the day, it&#039;s just another routine sporadic child-rearing task.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parents will monitor their kids anyway in a few years when they&#8217;ll be hooked up to the VR set in the same room as the child throughout most of the day.</p>
<p>our way of life already becomes increasingly multi-tasked while in the next decade our geographical location will become quite fixed by virtual reality. at the end of the day, it&#8217;s just another routine sporadic child-rearing task.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-544379</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-544379</guid>
		<description>When laws are proposed, you call for more parental supervision and monitoring, then you turn around and express anger at all that monitoring.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When laws are proposed, you call for more parental supervision and monitoring, then you turn around and express anger at all that monitoring.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Brill</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-2/#comment-544042</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Brill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-544042</guid>
		<description>Being a parent comes with much responciblity and this is just  part of it.
Plenty of child safe surfing filtering software installed that prevents children from accessing the adult content. 
MSN and AOL have parental controls built in that also creates a report that the child visited.
The problem is not the adult content instead the parents and how they deal with issue. 
Children do not perceive a naked woman the same as an adult would.
Children are taught that an image of a nude person is bad bad bad except in a museum where its art art art....
Growing up we have all been exposed to adult issues and it was the obligation of our parents to discuss it with us as well as drugs etc.
In my school in 5th grade the school system had the class watch a clip called the birds and the bees. That removed the mystique associated with sex and everyone moved on. All the kids laughted and said this was silly. It didn&#039;t take long and we where playing spin the bottle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a parent comes with much responciblity and this is just  part of it.<br />
Plenty of child safe surfing filtering software installed that prevents children from accessing the adult content.<br />
MSN and AOL have parental controls built in that also creates a report that the child visited.<br />
The problem is not the adult content instead the parents and how they deal with issue.<br />
Children do not perceive a naked woman the same as an adult would.<br />
Children are taught that an image of a nude person is bad bad bad except in a museum where its art art art&#8230;.<br />
Growing up we have all been exposed to adult issues and it was the obligation of our parents to discuss it with us as well as drugs etc.<br />
In my school in 5th grade the school system had the class watch a clip called the birds and the bees. That removed the mystique associated with sex and everyone moved on. All the kids laughted and said this was silly. It didn&#8217;t take long and we where playing spin the bottle.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543750</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 06:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543750</guid>
		<description>#19--   
Greg Allen, the problem here is that too many parents in the U.S. are looking for the easy fix, and Congress is more than happy to win votes from both  parents and the religious right by passing bone-headed legislation which they must know ahead of time is likely not going to stand up in court.  As I pointed out, &quot;safety&quot; is not just a question of pornography.    What filters are you going to create that will shield young children from the dangers of contact with literally the whole world?  Somehow we have this expectation that because the internet has become popular, it can also be made child-friendly.  I just don&#039;t think that&#039;s possible.

Also... since you brought up the UAE, their filtering process does exactly what critics of the overturned law argued would happen if it were enforced-- keep even everyday content from being viewed by people who would like to see it.  I know you remember this.  ;-)
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8254

Filters are fine if a person opts to use them and realizes their limitations, and if they don&#039;t replace parental responsibility for supervising the kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19&#8211;<br />
Greg Allen, the problem here is that too many parents in the U.S. are looking for the easy fix, and Congress is more than happy to win votes from both  parents and the religious right by passing bone-headed legislation which they must know ahead of time is likely not going to stand up in court.  As I pointed out, &#8220;safety&#8221; is not just a question of pornography.    What filters are you going to create that will shield young children from the dangers of contact with literally the whole world?  Somehow we have this expectation that because the internet has become popular, it can also be made child-friendly.  I just don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s possible.</p>
<p>Also&#8230; since you brought up the UAE, their filtering process does exactly what critics of the overturned law argued would happen if it were enforced&#8211; keep even everyday content from being viewed by people who would like to see it.  I know you remember this.  <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
<a href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8254" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8254' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=8254</a></p>
<p>Filters are fine if a person opts to use them and realizes their limitations, and if they don&#8217;t replace parental responsibility for supervising the kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543462</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543462</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Children require supervision. So why don’t parents want to supervise their children?

Man, this drips of condescension.  Will you at least concede that monitoring is super-hard if all your kid has to do is click on one single link after the door-bell rings and suddenly he&#039;s in Bestiality World?

&gt;&gt; The internet by its very nature is not safe, and can never be made safe, for children.

If that&#039;s the case, then shouldn&#039;t responsible parents totally deny their kids access to the internet?  If they did so, they&#039;d be flamed as control-freak fundies!

&lt;i&gt;Technically&lt;/i&gt; I agree with you -- it can not be made &lt;i&gt;absolutely safe.&lt;/i&gt;

But can it be made safer? Especially for younger kids? Clearly yes.  It&#039;s being done right now on a large scale in several countries.

My country -- the UAE -- is working proof that the vast majority of pornography can be blocked. It is very hard to get around the filters -- certainly too hard for younger kids. 

Some system like that would at least slow down kids&#039;  access to porn enough that parents could answer the phone or maybe even cook some dinner!

But -- it must be a voluntary system. Voluntary self-restriction is no violation of the First Amendment. Everybody self-restricts, all the time.











</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Children require supervision. So why don’t parents want to supervise their children?</p>
<p>Man, this drips of condescension.  Will you at least concede that monitoring is super-hard if all your kid has to do is click on one single link after the door-bell rings and suddenly he&#8217;s in Bestiality World?</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; The internet by its very nature is not safe, and can never be made safe, for children.</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s the case, then shouldn&#8217;t responsible parents totally deny their kids access to the internet?  If they did so, they&#8217;d be flamed as control-freak fundies!</p>
<p><i>Technically</i> I agree with you &#8212; it can not be made <i>absolutely safe.</i></p>
<p>But can it be made safer? Especially for younger kids? Clearly yes.  It&#8217;s being done right now on a large scale in several countries.</p>
<p>My country &#8212; the UAE &#8212; is working proof that the vast majority of pornography can be blocked. It is very hard to get around the filters &#8212; certainly too hard for younger kids. </p>
<p>Some system like that would at least slow down kids&#8217;  access to porn enough that parents could answer the phone or maybe even cook some dinner!</p>
<p>But &#8212; it must be a voluntary system. Voluntary self-restriction is no violation of the First Amendment. Everybody self-restricts, all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Larson</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543311</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 02:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543311</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t these people who are so concerned about children seeing porn fund and operate their own safe DNS service? Then parents could set up their children&#039;s computers to use that DNS instead of the one assigned or recommended by their ISP?

That would get the government out of the censorship business. It would allow families to &quot;opt-in&quot; to a censoring service that matches the level of censorship they desire.

If parents insist on outsourcing their supervision duties, then for God&#039;s sake please don&#039;t outsource it to the government.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t these people who are so concerned about children seeing porn fund and operate their own safe DNS service? Then parents could set up their children&#8217;s computers to use that DNS instead of the one assigned or recommended by their ISP?</p>
<p>That would get the government out of the censorship business. It would allow families to &#8220;opt-in&#8221; to a censoring service that matches the level of censorship they desire.</p>
<p>If parents insist on outsourcing their supervision duties, then for God&#8217;s sake please don&#8217;t outsource it to the government.</p>
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		<title>By: Jägermeister</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543258</link>
		<dc:creator>Jägermeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543258</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The internet by its very nature is not safe, and can never be made safe, for children. I disagree with those who think it can. Children require supervision. So why don’t parents want to supervise their children? Why do they keep looking for a magic bullet?&lt;/i&gt;

You&#039;re on the correct track. Supervision and being involved in your child&#039;s life gets you far in terms of keeping them away from some of the shit in this world.

Some parents are too busy entertaining themselves and &quot;don&#039;t have the time&quot; for their kids. I&#039;ve seen it all too often.

#16 - &lt;i&gt;This is what happens when you don’t spank your child.&lt;/i&gt;

Big time bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The internet by its very nature is not safe, and can never be made safe, for children. I disagree with those who think it can. Children require supervision. So why don’t parents want to supervise their children? Why do they keep looking for a magic bullet?</i></p>
<p>You&#8217;re on the correct track. Supervision and being involved in your child&#8217;s life gets you far in terms of keeping them away from some of the shit in this world.</p>
<p>Some parents are too busy entertaining themselves and &#8220;don&#8217;t have the time&#8221; for their kids. I&#8217;ve seen it all too often.</p>
<p>#16 &#8211; <i>This is what happens when you don’t spank your child.</i></p>
<p>Big time bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Angel H. Wong</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543218</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel H. Wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 01:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543218</guid>
		<description>Parents only want to hear &quot;You are so good at parenting!&quot; but do they want to bother raising them? Noooooo...

This is what happens when you don&#039;t spank your child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parents only want to hear &#8220;You are so good at parenting!&#8221; but do they want to bother raising them? Noooooo&#8230;</p>
<p>This is what happens when you don&#8217;t spank your child.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren the Ghoti</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543157</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren the Ghoti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543157</guid>
		<description>#14 - TJG

I&#039;m pretty sure she was charged and convicted under state law - this one is/was a Federal statute.

I would tend to think that invalidation of the Federal law might be usable in an action seeking to overturn the state law... It&#039;s a good question.

Maybe DU&#039;s answer to Perry Mason, SN, would be able to shed some light on the issue...

You there, SN? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 &#8211; TJG</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure she was charged and convicted under state law &#8211; this one is/was a Federal statute.</p>
<p>I would tend to think that invalidation of the Federal law might be usable in an action seeking to overturn the state law&#8230; It&#8217;s a good question.</p>
<p>Maybe DU&#8217;s answer to Perry Mason, SN, would be able to shed some light on the issue&#8230;</p>
<p>You there, SN? <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: TJGeezer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543096</link>
		<dc:creator>TJGeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543096</guid>
		<description>12 - That is RIGHT on the money.

Side thought - is this the law that poor substitute teacher, who was railroaded into prison because of stuff already on a classroom machine, got convicted for? Does this give her reasonable hope either on appeal or in a retrial?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12 &#8211; That is RIGHT on the money.</p>
<p>Side thought &#8211; is this the law that poor substitute teacher, who was railroaded into prison because of stuff already on a classroom machine, got convicted for? Does this give her reasonable hope either on appeal or in a retrial?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-543002</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-543002</guid>
		<description>#12, I&#039;d love to have the cartoon for my collection, but your description is perfect.  I can&#039;t stop laughing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12, I&#8217;d love to have the cartoon for my collection, but your description is perfect.  I can&#8217;t stop laughing.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren the Ghoti</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/03/22/judge-strikes-down-internet-porn-law-allegedly-passed-for-the-children/comment-page-1/#comment-542989</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren the Ghoti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10548#comment-542989</guid>
		<description>The responsibility-avoidant type of mentality behind that law was brought home for me in a New Yorker cartoon (wish I could find it on the intertubes) that depicted a family in their living room, kids glued to the TV, mom and pop on the sofa, pop telling mom, &quot;I don&#039;t think the children should be watching this. I hope Congress bans it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The responsibility-avoidant type of mentality behind that law was brought home for me in a New Yorker cartoon (wish I could find it on the intertubes) that depicted a family in their living room, kids glued to the TV, mom and pop on the sofa, pop telling mom, &#8220;I don&#8217;t think the children should be watching this. I hope Congress bans it.&#8221;</p>
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