I personally believe that The Ark and other flood legends (every society has one) stem from the massive climate change at the end of the pleistocene. Any civilization in existence at that time would have been destroyed, and survivors would have many stories of what happened. Undoubtedly some prepared for the flooding and destruction by building such ships. I just don’t think they were divinely inspired. (Beyond simply “Oh my God I’d better build something to save my people from the shitstorm that’s coming down”.)
The massive central door in the side of Noah’s Ark was thrown open Saturday — you could say it was the first time in 4,000 years — drawing a crowd of curious pilgrims and townsfolk to behold the wonder. Of course, it’s only a replica of the biblical Ark, built by Dutch creationist Johan Huibers as a testament to his faith in the literal truth of the Bible.
Reckoning by the old biblical measurements, Johan’s fully functional ark is 150 cubits long, 30 cubits high and 20 cubits wide. That’s two-thirds the length of a football field and as high as a three-story house.
Life-size models of giraffes, elephants, lions, crocodiles, zebras, bison and other animals greet visitors as they arrive in the main hold.
I wonder if the ship model also handles the sewage and feed issue (water is obviously taken care of, at least for the first 40 days)?
13, Comment by BgScryAnml — 4/29/2007 @ 12:32 pm
Now _that_ is a piece of work. Probably violates Title 19, section 312.b,, paragraph 2: ‘No intelligent entertainment allowed on any blog.’
I don’t think the true believers are all stupid. Of course there are exceptions. I think people let themselves be led along by other people who claim to know more about God’s will then they do. They just ignore the inconsistencies of the story(ies). Faith is just an excuser to stop thinking about things for which you do not have immediate answers.
You could switch the stories of the Grimm Fairy Tales with the stories told in the bible. Each is as likely to have happened as the other.
People allowing an ancient text full of wrongful translations to lead their lives is hilarious to me.
And exactly what would these meat-eating animals eat while on board? Wouldn’t it be OTHER ANIMALS? Also, if there were just two animals taken, why did Noah get to take his whole family? Seems pretty anti-animal if you ask me.
OK, Noah was at least an iconoclast – no one believed him at the time.
So, Perhaps, this guy knows something we don’t?
What do you want to bet that it is really an resturant or butchershop serving a wide variety of meat to order?
#12 – ArianeB,
I disagree. The purpose of religion is to unite people and make them willing to die in wars of conquest. We are already a violent species. But, cultures with religion fight for their gods with a ferver that is possible but difficult to generate without such ludicrous beliefs.
As I pointed out in my intro, the Ark legend could have been widespread and distorted via a mishmash of various survivor folklore.
Water does not have to remain around for 40 days and nights to be destructive. Earthquake-triggered tsunamis last a day yet can destroy a countryside. Considering the “biblical” weather that accompanied the last massive climate change at the end of the pleistocene ~12,000 years ago every coastline was beaten by weather like a redheaded stepchild.
Check out radical climate-change concepts like crust displacement. As some of you know, I am one of the believers that an advanced civilization (not plastics and microchips, but international commerce, advanced math, functioning society and such) was destroyed by climate change. Any survivors of that cataclysm would also have a flood and destruction legend (like Gilgamesh).
What we don’t know about the past is massive, and “historians” aren’t in the business of really finding out the truth. There is so much we don’t know about the Romans, and they’re from our relatively recent past. Here’s a thought-provoking article by Gary Kasparov, the retired Chess Grandmaster, on some of the discrepancies in what we claim to know about Rome.
If you are unable to accept the fact that when you die, that’s it, then, the idea of heaven or arising from the dead ‘to a higher glory’ makes sense. Naturally, you don’t want to mix with the Hitlers and Pol Pots of that world, so a heaven and a hell, with the attendant keepers (God and his angels, and Satan and his – well – angels) makes even more sense. The number is amazing of people who are believers just in case there is a hell or heaven.
#27 – Oladimeji,
Probably true. Remember that time before you were born, or even conceived? I expect death to be just like that.
#26 – smartalix
I read a science fiction story a few years back about an archeologist who finds uncharacteristic oxidized iron deposits (rust smears) in an area where there was no natural iron. He gradually came to believe there was an advanced civilization that was building things, not 12,000 years ago, but millions of years ago. A contrapuntal story line concerned sentient dinosaurs approaching their own end-times. The point was that, after millions of years there would be *nothing* left. “Millions of years” represents a timespan people simply cannot fully comprehend, any more than we can truly comprehend, in a “five KM down the road, then left at the general store” sort of way, the distance represented by a light year. The only trace left of such a civilization would be an occasional inexplicable smearing of rust in the rocks.
But that’s millions of years later. Wouldn’t an iron-based civilization still be detectable 12,000 years later? Not in any detail if it got washed away by a climate change, maybe. But wouldn’t there be SOME identifiable trace left – some hint of harbor or roads or manmade structures of some type?
There are places in China where archeologists are sifting through inside-the-cave human settlement crap-holes looking for discarded potsherds, according to a show I saw recently on one of those “semi-science channels” mentioned by John Paradox (#18). I think those settlements go back about 12K years.
Climate change or no, wouldn’t there be SOME trace left?
29,
You’d be surprised what gets destroyed over time, especially if it is made of metal. Where is all the metal used in the construction of the Pantheon? The Colosseum? Anything useful that is not buried gets used up. Having said that, there are artifacts scattered everywhere that hint towards an advanced civilization deep in the past.
Here’s an interesting article from Archinect, an architectural site, on how fast London would return to the Earth without maintenance. The timespan described in the article is “only” about a thousand years. Multiply that by twelve and you’ll recognize why mostly it is only the stones that last that long.
For some strange reason, the only thing I picture being there inside that Ark are ppl in loinclothes dancing at the rhythm of Madonna’s music.
“Global warming camp”? You mean, like an invading army of “ecology freaks”? You mean, like, all the scientists on Earth who don’t work for Exxon-Mobil?
“And the Lord said, take your son up to an altar, tie him up [you don't think he was holding still for the knife, did you?] and stab him for me in my most holy name . Whoops! I was only kidding, you passed the test. And the kid, who cares, he’s damned gerbil in my psychotic eyes. Another little soldier of Me. He’s traumatized? FU! I like ‘em that way! Hit him a few times for ol’ Yaweh!”
…
And the most holy man saw that the crowd outside was fixin’ to tear the angels in his home apart, so he sayeth to the crowd, “Here are my prepubescent daughters. Take ‘em away and do what you want, they’re pretty hot, considering they’re 11 and 9, but please leave this Angel – ahem – random traveller alone.” And they Lord’s rep said, “You’re pretty Godly, son. Too bad about the kids. You can always make more.”
…
And the Lord said to Joshua, “Go down into that city. Kill and torture all the men. Make sex slaves of the women, and impregnate them all. Make every one of the little kids slaves. And please rinse and repeat until all of Canaan is annihilated and you get all the women pregnant and weeping and all the kids chained to your mangers, cleaning your loincloths. And burn everything, I like that fine. For I am the LORD. And kill some more livestock and burn it, I’m a bit peckish.”
…
This is the morality that the Bible teaches us. These were the holiest of the favored of God. What exactly did this supernatural psycho have to teach us? And Jesus believed every word of it, so, please, don’t say things changed when brought the good word of a reformed psycho god.
23: It might be hilarious, but they are armed, heavily represented in the officer class of the military, hold the Executive Branch hostage along with 100K nukes, and they don’t like you very much.
3: to answer your question as a kid: Kid, Chewbacca. The story isn’t about the animals. The story is about doing what the priests tell you to do, or you will drown with your pet puppy Snuffles, because GOD LOVES YOU, except when he has his little moments. Go to bed, and beg him not to kill you and your puppy. This is religion in a nutshell.
Consider the earth is a closed system, no water leaves or enters, the Earth obviously cannot be flooded in its entirety. Even if the entire south pole melted, it “only” raises the global water level by 200 meters.
It’s amazing how people think they are enlightened because they hear parts of stories, and never really study them like a real scientist, but go around claiming how “scientific” and smart they are when it comes to Biblical stories and how unbelievable they are. You are really no different than the typical ignorant Christian sitting in church on Sunday. Instead you sit in a college classroom and listen to teachers tell you their version and you accept it just as blindly. The fact that so many actually believe evolution is a testament to that.
#37
> The fact that so many actually believe evolution is a
> testament to that.
Riiiiigght. You mean just like those crazy people that say that the Earth is not flat and that the theory of gravity is accurate?
OK, let’s see how this works out.
The universe, God’s universe, appears to work by rules, laws and other restrictions or allowances. These rules, laws etc are constant and are not open to change. Why? Because God MADE them that way. If it has already established that a worldwide flood is impossible given the rules and laws of God’s physical universe (which remember, were put in place BY God) then we must accept that 1) God would create a situation which ignores the rules and laws which He has put in place; this opens up everything, science, Biblical stories open for interpretation, OR 2) there was no worldwide flood because God’s consistent rules and laws would not allow for such an occurrence.
So what is it? Can/will God set aside immutable laws which He alone created and put in place, as discovered by modern science (which truly exists primarily to discover more about God’s universe) and therefore leaves all knowledge and history (Biblical included) open for interpretation OR do we understand that the ordered universe as set by God cannot be changed and therefore the story of Noah and a worldwide flood is just a story, a tale, a parable or an exaggeration used to explain a weather occurrence for which men of Noah’s limited understanding but teaches good moral or religious lessons.
Which is it?
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high. I cannot attain unto it.
Psalm 139