UPDATE 2: Ex-Marine Won’t STFU About Iraq, So Marines Re-Enlisting Him To Dishonorably Discharge Him

The terrorists won. They hated us for our freedoms, maybe now we can get them to love us.

I want to see the right wing nut Republican neo-con chicken-hawk bigots justify this one.

TB GUY TB GUY

Geez get his story up, it’s been on CNN for three days now. It’s also on the news sidebar.

Now the poor guy finds out he’s not even legally married.
TB GUY has PO officials in US, Canada, Italy, Greece, Prague.
Thousands of people need to be screened.

3,
TB guy was a Lawyer.

I’ll save my scorn for the chicken hawks who have “other priorities” during times of war but then white and carp about former veterans who know a bad war when they see one. (John Kerry also comes to mind.).

Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere … nope, no weapons over there … maybe under here? – George W. Bush, 24 March 2004

The first political page appeared here during 1999 and stated, “It’s not about who becomes president, it’s about who selects Supreme Court justices.”

When Mr. Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court, pages leading up to the election were deleted and ~@~ got his main page back.

When Donald Rumsfeld called Vietnam Veterans “WHAT WAS LEFT AFTER THE BEST & BRIGHTEST FOUND A WAY TO DODGE MILITARY SERVICE” I got pissed.

I am a Vietnam Veteran with Honorable Discharge & Recommendation, volunteered to serve, was insulted by Rumsfeld and yellow, scum bag, CHICKENHAWK cowards who “Talk the talk, but never walked the walk.”

~@~ gave me this directory to voice my opinion.

http://www.flyingsnail.com/Dahbud/index.html

Can’t have a combat experienced Marine talking against the war. He is a threat to the morale of the troops. He is a threat to the war. What if all the other Marines felt the same way? What if other soldiers listened to him and his friends? Where would we be then? Who would fight? Who would go to war? Where would the warriors come from?

This administration is setting a new speed record for losing public confidence and then coming apart at the seams. Let this guy speak!! Hell they might actually learn something.

There is a vast “establishment” conspiracy made up of Dems and Repubs, Media, Religion, the Courts (whats left?) that requires silence if not obsequiousness in response to its exercise of power.

At a new constitutional convention, I wonder if the First Amendment would even get considered today, much less passed, much less understood?

16–Yep, a constitutional convention. Looks like Rove/Satan/Cheney missed one for this NeoCon administration.

Its one thing to submit Amendments for consideration, but BEWARE if there is ever a Constitutional Convention held for any given issue of the day. Regardless of the preambles, said convention can/will do as it pleases, and while this post was about the First Amendment, I think few of our liberties would be allowed today. The majority doesn’t understand it is made up of minority constituencies, and so forth.

To Stan:
I’m also a USAF veteran. I’m still in the IRR. The problem with the Marine Corps’ case against this man is that there are only three circumstances under which members of the IRR are subject to the UCMJ. We are subject to the UCMJ when we are called back to active duty, called up for inactive training duty, or when made the subject to article 15 or article 30 proceedings and called to active duty to deal with those proceedings. But we can only be made subject to article 15 or 30 proceedings for misdeeds we committed while on active duty. So the military can activate a member of the IRR and court martial him for a crime he had committed previously while on active duty that the military did not know about until now. Kokesh was not on active duty and he was not on inactive training duty when he participated in the protest. He was not subject to the UCMJ during that time and therefore this whole case is just bullying and bluffing on the part of the Marine Corps.

As a vet from the Army and the Airforce my self, I may not agree with his views, but I fully support his right to express them.

Give em HELL Adam.

Don

Hey, guys… Bush isn’t from Texas.. he’s from Connecticut.

Well, he certainly has the right to attend political rallies. And he has the right to speak out against the war(up to a point from what I can find).
But, as I delve deeper into this story, and not just read the Washington Post article and the posts on Liberal blogs, from what I can find so far, he’s not discharged, but is still(until June 18th, 2007) in the military. By his own admission, on his blog, he admits that he wore the uniform against regulations, in fact, he admits he did it twice, and has a valid military
ID, which means that he is still military and subject to the UCMJ. Reading the relative sections of the UCMJ, shows that after discharge from *active* status, he still had to complete 2 years of *inactive* status(which is why he still had a valid military ID), and according to the UCMJ, he still had to obide by those regulations, until such time as his full service commitment was over(june 18th, 2007).
This is the section that applies to his being reactivated for courtmartial.
******************
802 Art. 2

(d)(1) A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty and who is made the subject of proceedings under section 815 (article 15) or section 830 (article 30) with respect to an offense against this chapter may be ordered to active duty involuntary for the purpose of-
(A) investigation under section 832 of this title (article 32);
(B) trial by court-martial; or
(C) non judicial punishment under section 815 of this title (article 15).

*****************************************
This is the section on wearing of uniforms.
*****************************************
DoD Directive 1334.1 (.pdf)

3. POLICY

It is DoD policy that:

3.1. The wearing of the uniform by members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of Reserve components) is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:

3.1.1. At any meeting or demonstration that is a function of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons that the Attorney General of the United States has designated, under Executive Order 10450 as amended (reference (c)), as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means.

3.1.2. During or in connection with furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest may be drawn.

3.1.3. Except when authorized by the approval authorities in subparagraph 4.1.1., when participating in activities such as unofficial public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration, which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

3.1.4. When wearing of the uniform may tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

******************************************************

Here is his blog entry about *infiltrating* an Army Base in Germany.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When we got to the gate, the guard said that I couldn’t bring Jeff on with me because I was not registered in their system, even though I had a valid military ID. Jeff busted out the perfect story, “We’re backpacking around Europe, and we just wanted to come on base to use the PX. I just need to get some toiletries. See, I used to be in the Army too, but my ID is expired.” The guard suggested Jeff give me a list and wait for me. So I carried on alone.

>>>>Upon learning he was being investigated for wearing his uniform during the mock patrol, Kokesh wrote an e-mail to the investigating officer, Maj. John Whyte. The combat veteran discussed his service and his critique of the war, and asked this officer assigned to look into his “possible violation” of wearing his uniform: “We’re at war. Are you doing all you can?” He concluded with an obscene recommendation about what Whyte should go do.

I just want to include two quotes that I think describe this situation well. I hope that everyone, whether they are for the war or against can support Adam’s right to keep our Democracy alive. Bush has shown nothing but contempt for the US Constitution and we should never let him convince us to think of the Constitution that way. I honestly dont know if the people who go around telling people who criticize Bush to shut up or risk being labeled Anti-American are hired by the Corp Media to destroy the First Amendment or if people are actually choosing to support ONE person over the US Constitution. So far the comments here are from people that can distinguish between Bush, Congress, the People and our Troops. BUT I still encourage you to stop allowing others to silence people even if you do not agree with their views (either argue or dont listen)- there are too many people who are wrapped up in the campaign to silence any opposition and they need to know that it is NOT OK. A good example, is what they are doing to Adam- it has become accepted at this point to silence opposition without even worrying what the public might think.

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”
-Edward Abbey

“The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy; the best weapon of a democracy is openness.”
-Edvard Teller

What is in common with the US, Russia, and China?

They don’t hate us fro our freedom they hate us because we are killing them in their own lands and our US government is planning to start another war with Iran.

[Spam - ed.]

@ hal No.11

Can’t have a combat experienced Marine talking against the war. He is a threat to the morale of the troops.

So the truth is a threat to the morale of the troops. Criticizing a war we are soldiers are not properly cared for is wrong. What really will impact negatively on our soldiers is for the government not to give them what they need..which has happened and comments like “you go to war with the army you have” I guess by your logic the only way to keep the soldiers motivated is by feeding them lies.

He is a threat to the war. What if all the other Marines felt the same way? What if other soldiers listened to him and his friends?

A threat to the war…please don’t be ridiculous. Did Kokesh go awol or did he not do his full tour? No , the way he felt did not impact what he did. I have no doubt our soldiers would continue fighting. Isn’t freedom of speech and the right to disagree with the gov’t what they are supposedly fighting for.

Where would we be then? Who would fight? Who would go to war? Where would the warriors come from?

From the same place Kokesh and all other who have volunteered for service come from. If there is a real threat I am sure our boys and girls will rise to the occasion.

The solution to the problem is easy. All he has to say is “Oh, by the way; I’m gay.” and he can’t be re-enlisted can he?

The solution to the problem is easy. All he has to say is “Oh, by the way; I’m gay.” and he can’t be re-enlisted can he?

Comment by Chris

He can’t be forceably re enlisted, as we a have a voluntary military. Thisis all btavo sierra by the cindy
sheehan crowd of turncoats.

I’m not stating my opinion on this guy. In, out.. should be dishonorably discharged or should be left alone.

My comment is on the folks leaving all of these idiotic, ridiculous comments– on BOTH SIDES of the fence.

Get a grip. Insulting each other, insisting those that have different views from you are stupid, just being blatantly rude and so extremely aggressive towards each other is foolish. Your comments speak volumes about who you are.. and you don’t seem to be much at all.

If this guy is a threat to morale, if him speaking his mind is a threat to the war, then maybe it’s not a war we should be fighting in the first place. People always say we don’t have a way out, but that’s an absolute falsehood. If we wanted to leave, we could do so at any time. If we wanted to stabilize the region, we could do so at any time. We don’t want the region to be stable, and we don’t want to leave. The whole point of this exercise was to divide and conquer. We made sure they were all fighting each other and that we were in control. We are building the largest embassy in the world in baghdad, we have 4(?) permanent military bases there. Bush is talking about staying there for 50 years! Meanwhile, we are writing legislation for the free Iraqi government to pass giving our oil companies control of their oil. Stop accepting the lies! This war wasn’t necessary and it’s still not necessary, unless of course you’re haliburton… btw Geoff, I find it amusing that you would choose to insult everyone here, because they’re insulting each other! Well, the insults don’t matter anyway, when I see a post that makes me think, I don’t disregard it because the next guy calls the poster an idiot. Call them whatever you want, but you’re just background noise until you can tell me WHY they’re an idiot.

Anyone should be arrested that tries to protest at a funeral. I mean come one! Only true scum would go to a funeral to protest and shout, while family members are greiving.

the thing I don’t think has been mentioned here is that supporters of the war have been breaking the rules all over the place for the last six years – active duty folks in uniform appearing in political commercials, giving political speeches, etc. It’s only when someone is against the war that action is taken. more hypocrisy.

“prosecution of a member of the inactive reserves under these circumstances is unprecedented. ” This is False.The armed forces applied the same regulations under the Uniform Code of Military Justice during the Vietnam conflict. In fact a former Sergeant Major of the Army was called back to duty to be convicted.

#48 – Yes we do sign the dotted line-but most of us signed with our own ideology of what protecting god and country mean.

If there is a god, it doesn’t need protection. If there isn’t, it doesn’t deserve protection. But the country both needs and deserves it and those who put their lives on the line, finished their duty, and are now in private life, deserve to be able to speak in the political dialog.

I understand the military’s need to preserve the chain of command by placing certain restrictions on active service member’s ability to speak, but rules about uniforms seem like enough to me.

While I don’t buy the idea that military persons have more right than non-military persons to speak, I do think that if a guy has volunteered to take a bullet for me, I’m damn well gonna extend him the courtesy of listening to whatever he has to say about it.

#52, Geezer, Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.”

This is so disturbing on so many levels, I just don’t know how to react.

Thanks for the link.

to #45– it was a “mock” funeral. there was no body, or name etc.
they were not protesting a funeral, they were protesting “with” a funeral. I think the bit was that it was a funeral for the next serviceman to die for the war they dont like etc. they were silent, and arrested for “loud and boisterous protest”
I enjoyed his little “protest” at the hearing , with the running count of “i do not recall”. no twisting. no overly dramatic speeches or propaganda- just let the evidence speak for you.

I think this guy is pushing evry button he can to expose the problems he has seen. I also thing that he knows the consequences and is moving ahead anyway. Something else to think about, when the military slips out of civilian control the results are never good and often they are down right armegeddon, why do you think the phrase “Crossing the rubicon has survived so long”. All that being said this guy strikes me as someone who understands all that and is willing to pay the price to be heard which to me validates his message even more. I am not so sure that I could do the same knowing I could wait and say my piece with out the backlash. Dude is a stud.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. – A military panel has recommended a general discharge for an Iraq war veteran who wore his uniform during a war protest and later responded with an obscenity to a superior who told him he might have violated military rules.

http://tinyurl.com/2ca4uo

#60…Mr. Fusion….My Uncle said that he was Honorably Discharged from *active* duty, but has not been seperated from duty until his full 8 year term is up. That he is still considered *military* until that last 2 years is done(in his case in like15 days), and is still bound by chain of command rules….when the officer told him that he may be investigated for violating UCMJ…..he apparently told the officer to stuff it, only a bit more colorfully….he would have been fine doing that after June 18th….but until then, the officer is still an officer and he is still an enlisted man, just not active duty. My Uncle said that a lot of guys/girls think when they are discharged from *active* duty, they are discharged, period. But, apparently not.

Also, the uniform he was wearing, while without insignia, was his actual uniform, issued by the military to him, and since he was still military, he couldn’t wear it to the rally…..you confused??….I sure am……lol

Anyway, my Uncle called this morning to tell me to check out the news….he was right, they gave him what amounts to a General Discharge and washed their hands of him.

The military is the military….the majority of them are really patriots and care about their country I think…..they can’t be happy about whats going on in this country anymore than the rest of us, but they can’t say it. The decision to do what they did came down so fast and hard, it had to be a ranking officer that just decided to end it all before the politicians could get involved and screw it up more.