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	<title>Comments on: WordCamp 2007 &#8212; Bloggers Gather in San Francisco</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:19:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Cinaedh</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-719458</link>
		<dc:creator>Cinaedh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-719458</guid>
		<description>15., No, I don&#039;t know who currently has the largest media empire, although I suppose it might be Rupert. That&#039;s kind of &#039;beside my point&#039; and not central to it - or even important to it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15., No, I don&#8217;t know who currently has the largest media empire, although I suppose it might be Rupert. That&#8217;s kind of &#8216;beside my point&#8217; and not central to it &#8211; or even important to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillep</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-718469</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-718469</guid>
		<description>14, Are you claiming Murdoch has the largest media empire?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14, Are you claiming Murdoch has the largest media empire?</p>
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		<title>By: Cinaedh</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-718181</link>
		<dc:creator>Cinaedh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-718181</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Should journalists be licensed?&lt;/i&gt;

Unless things have changed over the past few years, it&#039;s the publishers who &#039;license&#039; journalists now and they have always done so by choosing whose writing or photos will be included in a publication and whose will not. 

I don&#039;t think that&#039;s ever going to change in any media and I&#039;d hate to see the government become involved in the process. It would be the end of the so-called free press.

An obvious problem arises when all publishers are wealthy and we end up with the same point-of-view in all publications and indeed, all mainstream media. That is happening now with Rupert Murdoch, as it used to happen with Conrad Black, who always replaced professional editors with advertisement salespeople. 

&#039;Ethics&#039; per se, usually have no connection to mainstream journalism today. &quot;Ethics&#039; and &#039;excellence&#039; are only important insofar as they attract paying customers.

Since pretty well anyone can run a blog, we&#039;re experiencing a short period of balance in media these days and everyone seems to be shocked by a situation that was once common.

Blogs are speech, so why shouldn&#039;t they be protected by existing laws relating to free speech? In my opinion, the question is only being asked because bloggers are becoming reporters and wealthy publishers have no control over what the populace reports or the publication of their opinions.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Should journalists be licensed?</i></p>
<p>Unless things have changed over the past few years, it&#8217;s the publishers who &#8216;license&#8217; journalists now and they have always done so by choosing whose writing or photos will be included in a publication and whose will not. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s ever going to change in any media and I&#8217;d hate to see the government become involved in the process. It would be the end of the so-called free press.</p>
<p>An obvious problem arises when all publishers are wealthy and we end up with the same point-of-view in all publications and indeed, all mainstream media. That is happening now with Rupert Murdoch, as it used to happen with Conrad Black, who always replaced professional editors with advertisement salespeople. </p>
<p>&#8216;Ethics&#8217; per se, usually have no connection to mainstream journalism today. &#8220;Ethics&#8217; and &#8216;excellence&#8217; are only important insofar as they attract paying customers.</p>
<p>Since pretty well anyone can run a blog, we&#8217;re experiencing a short period of balance in media these days and everyone seems to be shocked by a situation that was once common.</p>
<p>Blogs are speech, so why shouldn&#8217;t they be protected by existing laws relating to free speech? In my opinion, the question is only being asked because bloggers are becoming reporters and wealthy publishers have no control over what the populace reports or the publication of their opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: John C Dvorak</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717794</link>
		<dc:creator>John C Dvorak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717794</guid>
		<description># 10 -- Hmmm..I guess I need to pull out some stops

&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat1.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat3.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat4.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat5.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat6.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat22.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 10 &#8212; Hmmm..I guess I need to pull out some stops</p>
<p><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat1.gif" alt="" /><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat3.gif" alt="" /><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat4.gif" alt="" /><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat5.gif" alt="" /><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat6.gif" alt="" /><img src="http://dvorak.org/blog/images4/animated/anicat22.gif" alt="" /></p>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717703</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717703</guid>
		<description>#8, Alix, that is the most important statement so far:

&quot;A journalist usually operates in an environment of editorial oversight.&quot;

Ay, there&#039;s the rub.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8, Alix, that is the most important statement so far:</p>
<p>&#8220;A journalist usually operates in an environment of editorial oversight.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ay, there&#8217;s the rub.</p>
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		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717630</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717630</guid>
		<description>Phillipe has a valid point in that the power to license is the power to control.  We all know the problems that can arise with the FCC for example, would we really want the goverment or an unaccountable(to the public) Federal agency with that power over the written word as well as the airwaves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillipe has a valid point in that the power to license is the power to control.  We all know the problems that can arise with the FCC for example, would we really want the goverment or an unaccountable(to the public) Federal agency with that power over the written word as well as the airwaves?</p>
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		<title>By: hhopper</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717576</link>
		<dc:creator>hhopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717576</guid>
		<description>Why didn&#039;t they discuss animated cat GIFs?  That sounds like discrimination to me.

&lt;img src=&quot;http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n195/mtavatars/smileys/th_kitty2.gif&quot; /&gt; &lt;img src=&quot;http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/lothweneriniel/smileys/th_catani.gif&quot; /&gt; &lt;img src=&quot;http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/lindsyloo/smileys%20and%20things/th_x-hikashi3.gif&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why didn&#8217;t they discuss animated cat GIFs?  That sounds like discrimination to me.</p>
<p><img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n195/mtavatars/smileys/th_kitty2.gif" /> <img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/lothweneriniel/smileys/th_catani.gif" /> <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/lindsyloo/smileys%20and%20things/th_x-hikashi3.gif" /></p>
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		<title>By: Phillep</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717555</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717555</guid>
		<description>The original press, what existed at the time the US Constitution was being written, were the pamphleteers, who had the same credentials as today&#039;s bloggers (that is, &quot;none at all&quot;). 

The power to license is the ability to control. &quot;Certify&quot; the press, and censorship is implicit.  

What about &quot;responsibility&quot;? By what standard?  

I vote &quot;HELL NO!&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original press, what existed at the time the US Constitution was being written, were the pamphleteers, who had the same credentials as today&#8217;s bloggers (that is, &#8220;none at all&#8221;). </p>
<p>The power to license is the ability to control. &#8220;Certify&#8221; the press, and censorship is implicit.  </p>
<p>What about &#8220;responsibility&#8221;? By what standard?  </p>
<p>I vote &#8220;HELL NO!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Smartalix</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717538</link>
		<dc:creator>Smartalix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717538</guid>
		<description>There is another aspect of the blogger/journalist debate: oversight.

A journalist usually operates in an environment of editorial oversight. Material is created, then depending on content and topic, fact-checked and edited for grammar and style.

Sadly, in the relentless competitive environment created by the web this distinction is deteriorating as publications streamline staffs and accelerate production to meet the voracious appetite of the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is another aspect of the blogger/journalist debate: oversight.</p>
<p>A journalist usually operates in an environment of editorial oversight. Material is created, then depending on content and topic, fact-checked and edited for grammar and style.</p>
<p>Sadly, in the relentless competitive environment created by the web this distinction is deteriorating as publications streamline staffs and accelerate production to meet the voracious appetite of the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Mustard</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717485</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Mustard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717485</guid>
		<description>Individual basis awarding of credentials would be a good idea.  Maybe coupled with some kind of test, like if they can pass a fifth-grade final exam.  That might weed out not only bogus blogger &quot;journalists&quot;, but some in the MSNBC as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Individual basis awarding of credentials would be a good idea.  Maybe coupled with some kind of test, like if they can pass a fifth-grade final exam.  That might weed out not only bogus blogger &#8220;journalists&#8221;, but some in the MSNBC as well.</p>
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		<title>By: ArianeB</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717468</link>
		<dc:creator>ArianeB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717468</guid>
		<description>The vast majority of the media these days is untrustworthy. Almost all are owned by major corporations that do not want to rock the boat. Lots of important stories (like the earlier story about Bush suspending fifth ammendment to war protesters) are completely ignored by the mainstream media.

But the blogosphere is equally untrustworthy simply because these are non-professional journalists. Yet,  I do not believe blog writers need to be licensed, but I do believe they are subject to the same laws as journalist (slander, libel, plagarism) but also the same rights of free press, including freedom of speech and source protection.

We have seen multiple cases of bloggers scooping the mainstream press. They keep the media honest, even though they may not have the same size of audience. Good stories will get out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vast majority of the media these days is untrustworthy. Almost all are owned by major corporations that do not want to rock the boat. Lots of important stories (like the earlier story about Bush suspending fifth ammendment to war protesters) are completely ignored by the mainstream media.</p>
<p>But the blogosphere is equally untrustworthy simply because these are non-professional journalists. Yet,  I do not believe blog writers need to be licensed, but I do believe they are subject to the same laws as journalist (slander, libel, plagarism) but also the same rights of free press, including freedom of speech and source protection.</p>
<p>We have seen multiple cases of bloggers scooping the mainstream press. They keep the media honest, even though they may not have the same size of audience. Good stories will get out.</p>
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		<title>By: John C Dvorak</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717452</link>
		<dc:creator>John C Dvorak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717452</guid>
		<description>I think journalists and bloggers should be lumped together and given protection and credentials on an individual basis. Some bloggers have more influence than a guy writing for a local weekly. Much of the credentialing, though, stems from people trying to get into things free, not so they can report. This has to be identified from the outset.

Personally I do not see a difference between bloggers and old newsletter journalists such as IF Stone and George Seldes. Well, except for the fact that there is now a horde.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think journalists and bloggers should be lumped together and given protection and credentials on an individual basis. Some bloggers have more influence than a guy writing for a local weekly. Much of the credentialing, though, stems from people trying to get into things free, not so they can report. This has to be identified from the outset.</p>
<p>Personally I do not see a difference between bloggers and old newsletter journalists such as IF Stone and George Seldes. Well, except for the fact that there is now a horde.</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717433</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717433</guid>
		<description>In a certain sense, I think its true that &quot;traditional media&quot; with journalists and all can exist quite nicely WITHOUT the blogosphere, but it is most likely the blogoshere cannot exist without traditional media,  - - - 

- - - maybe - - -

only bloggers who are also traditional journalists should have such protections==whatever anyone thinks that is??  First Amendment still applies to everyone as long as Cheney is kept busy with his investments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a certain sense, I think its true that &#8220;traditional media&#8221; with journalists and all can exist quite nicely WITHOUT the blogosphere, but it is most likely the blogoshere cannot exist without traditional media,  &#8211; - &#8211; </p>
<p>- &#8211; - maybe &#8211; - -</p>
<p>only bloggers who are also traditional journalists should have such protections==whatever anyone thinks that is??  First Amendment still applies to everyone as long as Cheney is kept busy with his investments.</p>
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		<title>By: RBG</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717407</link>
		<dc:creator>RBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717407</guid>
		<description>Is there something not right with the idea of bloggers needing to gather in San Fransisco?

Should people who write messages on billboards be given press credentials?

Seems there needs to be a test of some kind.  Perhaps starting with the requirement to already having some minimal presence in the MSM. Or maybe a Google ranking.

RBG

RBG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there something not right with the idea of bloggers needing to gather in San Fransisco?</p>
<p>Should people who write messages on billboards be given press credentials?</p>
<p>Seems there needs to be a test of some kind.  Perhaps starting with the requirement to already having some minimal presence in the MSM. Or maybe a Google ranking.</p>
<p>RBG</p>
<p>RBG</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Madden</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2007/07/22/wordcamp-2007-bloggers-gather-in-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-717406</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Madden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12743#comment-717406</guid>
		<description>This is interesting juxtapositioned with your article on the Time cover. Why would we think &#039;mainstream journalists&#039; can do it any better then bloggers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting juxtapositioned with your article on the Time cover. Why would we think &#8216;mainstream journalists&#8217; can do it any better then bloggers.</p>
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