If your head is wrapped in towels, and water is poured over you, you can’t breath. If this is done for an extended length of time, you will suffocate and die.

It’s exactly like sticking someone’s head in a bucket of water. Hold it for 30 seconds, and he’s ok. Hold it for 2-3 minutes and he’s dead. Since the victim has no way of knowing if you intend to apply the process for 30 seconds, or 5 minutes, and you repeat it many times, then it’s torture.

Well… first off… 888 is a troll… fuck him… I got fished in, but I guess we all do from time to time…

My point on the poll is that the average American doesn’t know waterboarding from surfing. Not because they are stupid, but because the average person has no direct experience with it. I don’t ask florists about plumbing or firemen about sailing… We all have a right have an opinion and to express it, but when it comes to making decisions, I would hope that the guesses of the masses are not taken into consideration.

Maybe I’m the last guy in America who admits it, but I value expert opinion over regular Joes bitching from their armchairs… Which why I would stop bitching from my airchair if some military intelligence guys stopped by with a pizza and offered to tell me all about interrogation techniques.

And frankly, this question predates our current mess. We have rules about torture and we should stick with them.

Do people think the Bush administration is breaking the law? Well duh!

now the line is blurry when you get to intimidation, food/water deprivation (after how long is it considered immoral to not give water to a suspect for interrogation)… Besides, anybody would admit to anything after a couple of hours in interrogation room.

But hey, maybe that guy killed hundreds, so he shouldn’t be treated like a human being… Then on the other hand, look at the number of innocent convicts that went thru death row ..

But hey, i’m glad to live in belgium … where the worst thing that could happen to you is take a shower in a police department …(recently a police offer got badly ill after taking a shower, and the place was classified as one of the worst places from a sanitary point of view ^^ )

I also do actually wonder if supporting the constitution actually addresses the issue about waterboarding at all? Whether you support the constitution or not had no bearing on whether or not waterboarding is torture? So, two good examples of TRYING to tie otherwise valid positions to irrelevant issues.

Always good to give that first evisceral response a closer second/third read????

Wars are fought to WIN, no to conform to “rules of engagement”.
People die in every war, so WTF is there to discuss here, I dont get it. I said it already , those who spare the enemies for the sake of whatever beliefs or laws they hold, they are potentially harming their own troops.
Many of these liberal american shitheads probably would have never been born if their grandfathers would have been as stupid as they are and hold off Little Boy and Fat Man as they certainly would nowadays.

So, hell yes, I agree with your stance on tortures – I am not for it as a part of common warfare tactics, but if limited torturing of enemies can save live of even one of our own soldiers I see no reason why should we value enemies’ lives over the lives of our own.
Having said that I know I am in huge minority here, and do you think I care?

Surely, if you think before you post you can do better than that?===Now, I’m not demanding you think before your post, just on this occassion. When I disagree with OFTLO==he usually has majority support and I lose. I’m looking for your help here.

anyhoo==18==I love disagreeing with OFTLO because he holds reasonable positions and defends them well. I’ve read his posts and yours, and I don’t see what complaint you have? Read too fast, I can see OFTLO posts sounding more negative than a slow careful read gives it.

Why don’t you post again SPECIFICALLY about whats wrong with saying general poling on a question often is irrelevant and what is wrong with admiring those that support constitutional rights?

I’d like to know?

And someone argue against this====I submit all our enemies use torture without restriction against GOUSA==so that is no reason for us not to do it. I agree indiscriminate torture does more harm than good, but limited skilled torture can bring results??? So why not use it on a limited basis–or something like waterboarding that atleast is on some kind of dividing line?

Certainly no country is perfect , and don’t make mistake – since its the last empire based on my own western civilization – I love America and (small) percentage of Americans too. I simply loathe the brainless obese caricatures of your forefathers that so many of yous have become

While I agree it is still possible that you “are also intelligent enough to try and fix it civilly,with democratic elections…” (and thats what we all outside of USA hope for, believe it or not), please forgive me if I really ROTFL on the last part of your sentence: ” …and not with guns.”
bwahahaha!!! Joke of the day
Some parts of your cities often sound like Baghdad at night, so please admit you were kidding

But not torture IF the definition is “that which causes pain or long term physical harm.”

I am on the fence since seeing several cases of volunteers who have been waterboarded MORE THAN ONCE! and we do it on a limited basis as part of advanced survival training. Now, we don’t poke our own people’s eyes out==that causes pain and long term physical harm–it is torture.

Hmmmm, on the other hand, mild/severe electrocution doesn’t cause
long term physical harm. Neither does being kicked in the nuts.

Psychological torture!

US official just asked if some other country waterboarded our troops, would we complain. His answer–depends.

How many here can make the distinction between very very unpleasant and torture==and whats your definition?

I’m very curious what country you come from. Given the opportunity though, I’m relatively certain you would want to be a citizen.

Maybe America isn’t perfect. We do have enough sense to admit it. We are also intelligent enough to try and fix it civilly, with democratic elections and not with guns.