The United States lags behind most other developed countries when it comes to science education.
That, at least, is one conclusion of a major report released by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). It measures student literacy in science, math, and reading (focusing this year on science) among 15-year-olds, and is an often-cited reference for policymakers sounding the alarm bells about the state of education in the United States and its implications for the ability of Americans to secure jobs in a global economy.
Finland emerged at the top of 57 countries in science, according to the 2006 survey results from the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA). The US ranked 29th, behind countries like Croatia, the Czech Republic, and Liechtenstein, and ahead of just nine other OECD countries…
“The lesson from PISA is that it’s not enough to test; you have to have the support and strategy to take advantage of what you learn from those tests,” says Mr. Wise. “Every community is not wired to the world, and every child needs to have an education that looks good not compared to the county next door, but internationally.”
Yup. So, no sneering and self-satisfaction from you Canadians – just because your kids came in 3rd.
>>Hey #2: “good economy?” When was that? I
>>think I missed it….
He’s lumping in the good stuff that happened during Clinton’s administration, hoping that no one will notice.
#19
> Imagine what the trillions of dollars
> spent on “foreign policy”
The problem with this dream is that you are assuming:
A. That any of the money that would have gone to “foreign policy” would have gone to education.
B. That money that did manage to be spent on education would have been spent wisely.
Frankly, I’m not willing to make either of those assumptions.
#22
I suppose if you have your head in the proverbial “Everything during the Bush years is bad” sand, then you could conclude the economy is bad. The economy is much better than the “Bush Hate” ostriches would have us believe. Maybe Hilarity (Hilary) will “fix” the economy by inventing another Internet.
#2 Thomas said…
First, no post would be complete without blaming Bush.
True.
Asteroids hitting the Earth? Bush’s fault!
Only an idiot would make that assertion.
Stupid kids? Bush’s fault!
Bush is responsible only for his own stupidity, which keeps him busy enough, but should take the rap for the predictably ill effects of the No Rich Child Left Behind law.
Bad economy? Bush’s fault!
Well, okay… Of the varied and complex reasons for our wobbly insecure economy, Bush certainly has a share of blame to shoulder. After all, his incompetence is his responsibility.
Good economy? Can’t be Bush’s fault.
Could be, if we had one under his watch. But we don’t, so its a moot point.
Second, the state of our education has been deteriorating long before Bush came into office. The NCLB was a reaction to the atrocious quality of education in the US.
Bullshit. The NCLB was a reaction to the rabid demands of a largely ill-informed public demanding that someone be blamed for the state of education in poor inner city schools. In reality, many American public schools produce amazing results. There are schools in the northern suburbs of Chicago with 98% college placement rates. In fact, most schools considered among the best high schools in America are public schools.
It was conceived with poorly researched thinking based largely on lazy conservative groupthink, and publicly sold with endorsements from First Lady Laura Bush who has no remarkable claim to anything beyond a basic knowledge of education.
Like many bad ideas, it starts by deciding who to blame and working backward from there.
It is reprehensible that kids are able to graduate High School without the ability to read or do arithmetic.
True.
The NCLB was a meant as a way of making teachers accountable for quality.
Because of the false assumption that teachers were the problem. It’s that kind of simplistic thinking that leads to failure. Teachers are but one of many many factors that lead to success, and the student is a key factor.
Third, I am honestly not surprised at this result. Look at what the market is telling students.
Well… I tend to agree with the sentiment, but I doubt the average student is forward thinking enough to make that sort of analysis. However, I don’t doubt that your thinking applies to many above average students.
Speaking only for myself, I wasn’t thinking about the impact of business trends on my future when I was 15. At 15, I was practicing my Academy Award for Best Director acceptance speech.
I never had an issue with critical thinking, but I guess I failed to learn realistic thinking in high school
If you get a science degree you will never be paid as much as managers who are generally dumber and your job could be outsourced.
I DEFINITELY agree that my manager is dumber than me.
—-
You and I aren’t that far off, but I admit freely that I am especially harsh on Bush. But that’s because if you look at his life as a whole, you can only come away with the conclusion that he proved himself unqualified to be a regional manager for Taco Bell, let alone President, long before 2000 ever rolled around.
Bush as a world leader is just one of the cruel jokes the universe sometimes plays on humanity. Bush is one of the key reasons I do not support Clinton. No matter what else I think of Hillary, I think we need to make sure that office doesn’t start turning into anyone’s family business.
Saint Thom, NOTHING Dumbya could have done with those trillion$ of dollar$ would be worse than what he actually did with it.
And I guess if you really think money won’t be well spent on education, the logical conclusion of that would be to remove ALL funding from public schools, eh?
We could lock in the “Shittiest Education System in the World” trophy, just like we locked in the “Worst President Ever” one. Batting a thousand then, eh?
All you Bush hates do forget one important thing. Do the kids really wanting to learn. Most of these kids idols are people like Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton and other Celebrities. Their taught that if you want to be something you have to be famous by our mass media. This is reinforced by PC culture we live in that you can’t do anything wrong but are just miss understood. I grew up in Cincinnati and went to Catholic schools (I was taught evolution by the way) but a passing grade for me was 70% will kids going to the public school only had to get 60%. Don’t know what it is now.
Most other countries it’s also a matter of pride to do well in school where here its more important to be on the football team or cheerleading squard.
If you really want to fix the education system then support school vouchers so kids who do want to learn can get away from kids that don’t.
That’s just my two cents worth.
#25 – I grew up in Cincinnati and went to Catholic schools
That can’t be true because I know that Catholic schools do teach grammar.
Did you attend Our Lady Of Perpetual Illiteracy?
The brats can’t do math for shit either. All the neocons care about is if they can be trained to work a chaingun.
#23
RE: State of education prior to NCLB
I did not say that ALL schools were bad. I have no doubt that there are some fabulous public K-HS schools in select locations around the country. However, I do not accept that they are the norm. The universities have complained for years that most public HS graduates are ill-equipped to start college and have to take remedial classes. I remember encountering people when I went to college over 20 years ago that had never written an essay before they got to college. In CA and LA specifically, the public school system is the worst I have ever seen. For every one good public school there are a dozen that are equivalent to juvenile prisons.
RE: NCLB
How do you know that most HS are competent in the core subjects? Students getting accepted to and perhaps completing college might be a start however, only a subset of students apply for college (which is another problem). The only way to really know is to have standardized tests so that we can compare students from Chicago with students from Los Angeles. I agree that NCLB has problems but it was a start by setting down standards. Probably the biggest complaint I have heard is that there are too any tests. Ok, that can be fixed. But it should definitely be the case that we know before we graduate students whether they have absorbed the material they were supposed to have been taught.
Teachers are definitely *part* of the problem because they are the ones that are letting kids slip through the system. How do you know if a teacher is performing below average or above average? How do you determine “average”? If we devise metrics by which we can evaluate teacher’s performance then good teachers *should* find it easier to get better jobs. For example, one possible comparison might a formula that accounts for the class size, average IQ and their test scores. Teachers with small class sizes and high IQs should have higher expectations than say a teacher with large class sizes that have a low average IQ.
Perhaps the biggest difference between say Europe and the US is that the Europeans appear to have much higher standards as well as quality for the equivalent High School education. Thus, when they graduate the HS-equivalent, it actually means something.
#26
Yes, they did teach grammar but I never said I was top of my class. I always did well on dissecting a sentence but I suck at writing them. I spell like grap too. I also went to summer school allot. Now if I applied myself and not watch all the time. I could have done allot better. It’s also why I do CAD work for a living.
But my writing skills have nothing to do with my point of not being able to teach someone who doesn’t want to learn or doesn’t think they need a good education. My point was people are more worried about how the school’s football or basketball teams are doing then how well the schools teach their kid. If a teacher fails the star player they are vilified for hurting the team. This unfortunately gets passed on to the kids and the kids take this attitude too.
Just look at the “science” curricula in public schools for grades 8-12 these days. Do you actually expect kids to learn any science when creationism is taught along with “hard science”, when kids must pass through metal detectors to get to class, when many kids don’t even want to learn, they’d rather play video games than learn to design them etc.?
Can’t blame all that on Bush. Seems like it’s been coming since Reagan and there are many more factors involved than money. But perhaps that’s just me being the sort that had to walk uphill both ways to school through the snow.
I still teach kids about astronomy, those that get excited learn, those that don’t watch TV.
for some of you, MAY not understand something strange and interesting…
To get a KID interested into something, THEY MUST get their hands on it…
A teacher up front, SHOWING what happens, is NOT the thrill of doing it YOURSELF.
AS well as having CLUBS/GROUPS, after school to PLAY and experiment in/with… With SOME adult supervision..
Until we can introduce kids EARLY, and foster the knowledge as they develop… Its NOT GOING to work.
Not only Finland was the #1 but they did it 25-50% cheaper than the other EU countries, and all the public schools produced equally good students around the country.
What is notable is that a poor country like Finland can do it. Their buying power and living space is one of the lowest in EU. Maybe there is nothing else to do than study, and everybody just likes to get good education to join the 20+% of Finnish population who have moved out of the country.
It’s still nice to be #1 again, others being; the most violent, the most guns, highest taxes etc.
The problem with American science is threefold, as I see it as a frustrated scientist myself;
• Funding for science, particularly applied science (that bad word that, in scientific circles, means both ‘useful’ and ‘un-fundable’) has utterly collapsed, unless you can somehow attach ‘terrorism’ to the grant request. Of course, if you want to build weapons or drugs that treat but don’t cure there is plenty of funding, but most people prefer not to sell their souls for the privilege of engaging in scientific endeavor. Why would a kid want to get into a very hard discipline when the chances for gainful employment are only retracting?
• There is no vision in this country at all. No leadership on energy, none on space, none on genuinely improving crops (rather than slapping terminator genes in everything for pure profit motive), none on environmental engineering. None. Part of the appeal of science is using the method towards helping mankind, but there is none of that.
• Grad education in the US is a mine field; if you don’t get exactly the right advisor, you’ll probably end up dropping out before you get your masters or doctorate as they string you along for years either doing their work for them, or doing nothing that will ever lead to being published. Other countries require turnover in their grad programs, so the PI’s can’t just use their grads as an expendable slave labor force. Not here.
Why would any student want to go into science? I left a high paying consultancy job many years ago to pursue science and help the world. In this environment, I’ve come to think of myself as being terribly foolish for thinking that was even possible, and wondering how I can possibly make up for the past decade that I’ve wasted.
My advice for students, though it hurts to give it: If you want to make money, go to accounting school. If you want to help people, join a charity. If you want to discover new things, read a book. Science as it is practiced in the US is largely a waste of time and money, a soul sucking trap seemingly designed to capture smart, idealistic people and crush them into cynical grant hounds.
#28 – I did not say that ALL schools were bad.
I know. I hope I didn’t give you the impression that I was laying that at your feet. But there are many people who will make the sweeping generality that “all schools” are bad… and while they may be overstating for effect, the more it is said, the more true it is perceived to be.
I have no doubt that there are some fabulous public K-HS schools in select locations around the country. However, I do not accept that they are the norm.
Nor should you. “Meets expectations” is the norm. Average is the norm. Doesn’t suck ass is the norm. Fabulous is an exception. My point is that “absolutely shitty” is also outside of the norm…
…and everytime we say it isn’t, we send a message to educators that we do not value their tireless contribution. We tell teachers they are worthless. We tell students that no matter what their achievement, we don’t recognize it or care. We tell prospective teachers that we don’t want them and they should aim for a marketing degree and join the hardworking team at (insert company here).
The universities have complained for years that most public HS graduates are ill-equipped to start college and have to take remedial classes. I remember encountering people when I went to college over 20 years ago that had never written an essay before they got to college.
I know anecdotal evidence isn’t useful, but I went to what I would describe as a below average school, yet when I started college in 1985, I was offered the opportunity to “test out” of English 101 types of classes by those classes instructors. I elected to not do so, because despite being an arrogant dumb ass, I seem to have had wisdom enough to know that doing the work gave me more than not doing the work, and that if I was a shoe in for the A, the padding on the old GPA would be good.
In CA and LA specifically, the public school system is the worst I have ever seen. For every one good public school there are a dozen that are equivalent to juvenile prisons.
I’ve heard that too. I don’t know the first thing about California aside from what I’ve read in the news… which means, I don’t know the first thing about California.
I do know that if you compare Chicago with Chicago’s Northern Suburbs, you’ll see two completely different school systems. In the city, battlefield schools aren’t uncommon, but in the northern subs, it feels like there is a permanent rainfall of manna from Heaven.
If nothing else, that tells me that a kid’s parent’s income is the determining factor about the quality of their education.
…The only way to really know is to have standardized tests so that we can compare students from Chicago with students from Los Angeles…
I recall taking tests in every class and that measured that I understood the curriculum. Now, we do that and add batteries of standardized tests too? Despite Bush’s homespun wisdom, teaching to the test is not teaching.
Teachers are definitely *part* of the problem because they are the ones that are letting kids slip through the system.
I don’t deny that teachers are part of the problem. Teachers are part of the system, and thus must have a role in the problem. But laying that at their feet is not fair. Teachers are managed from the top down, just like the shake and fry team at a McD’s. Upper administration routinely forces kids through the system to meet demands handed down from even farther up. Teachers are unwitting pawns in this game of human resource management, and that partially accounts for the high burnout rate they experience…
…and on that… I hear some people accuse teachers of having easy careers, 5 hour days, 4 months of paid vacation, and bla bla bla…
If its such a cake job, why is there such a high burnout rate?
How do you know if a teacher is performing below average or above average? How do you determine “average”? If we devise metrics by which we can evaluate teacher’s performance then good teachers *should* find it easier to get better jobs.
Good teachers do find better jobs… typically outside of education. There is no incentive to stay.
For example, one possible comparison might a formula that accounts for the class size, average IQ and their test scores. Teachers with small class sizes and high IQs should have higher expectations than say a teacher with large class sizes that have a low average IQ.
Factoring in IQ? Okay…
My ex-wife’s third grade class included 30+ kids. At least 25 had only one parent and all of them lived in households earning below $20K (which means they don’t eat much and don’t get regular medical care). We know that at least 8 of the mothers supplemented their incomes with prostitution, and several others peddled drugs. 1/3 of the kids had a father or older brother who had died by gunfire, and no fewer than 4 of them had actually witnessed the murders. 3/4 of these kids had (who would have imagined) behavior problems.
Please. Put together an action plan to measure my ex-wife’s performance. I’d like to know how she was doing as a teacher.
Perhaps the biggest difference between say Europe and the US is that the Europeans appear to have much higher standards as well as quality for the equivalent High School education. Thus, when they graduate the HS-equivalent, it actually means something.
We see many schools pouring at exceptional students, but we see too many dumping gas station attendants or prison inmates on the market as well.
Given the complexity of our social and economic problems, our cultural conflicts, our crime rates, the stunning, sobering inadequacy of parenting in so many households… how can we say that “holding teachers accountable” is the solution to all our problems. NCLB doesn’t even aim at our problems. It’s a scapegoating bill. It’s more of the “blame the teacher” mindset that refuses to look at education’s real problems.
I haven’t been to Europe, but if I had to hazard an uninformed guess, I might suggest that Europe has higher standards because Europe can afford higher standards. We can’t, until we solve several other problems first. And blaming teachers isn’t solving anything.
>>I haven’t been to Europe, but if I had to
>>hazard an uninformed guess, I might suggest
>>that Europe has higher standards because
>>Europe can afford higher standards.
Yeah, you’ll have that, when you don’t piss away trillions of dollars on a dead-end war and tax cuts for the super-rich.
34,
YEP…
Most companies hire 1 person to be responsible, and ALOT of techs TRYING to get experience. The Techs get paid SQUAT. And the 1 responsible Gets the most money, and plays GOLF.
#37 – And the 1 responsible Gets the most money, and plays GOLF.
BULLSEYE!
That’s pretty much as true as you can get
Up here in brilliant Canada, the CBC radio host reported that the US was excluded from the literacy testing because the people administering the test misread the instructions. hee hee!
“One thing this post doesn’t mention is that in many of the countries listed ahead of the US, K-12 education is not a right. Therefor, many of the kids who would be bringing the curve down are in fact, not even in the system like they are in the US.”
Post #17, KevinL your argument falls down when you consider that Canada ranked third, yet education is mandatory here and we have our share of dummies bringing down the score. Most of those dummies work in my office.
My advice to kids studying engineering is that they should learn German as a second language, it seems that they have a shortage of highly skilled workers and the German goverment is trying to implement a Blue card which is similar to the American Green Card.
Plus they pay in Euros.