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	<title>Comments on: Britain stops wavering over nuclear power</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-952558</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-952558</guid>
		<description>Bobbo, I can&#039;t find any definitive answers on disposal of nuke waste.  There are so many crackpot ideas (Marianas Trench) and so much DOE total BS there&#039;s just no way to be sure.

But you can bet on one thing -- the DOE won&#039;t be releasing the detailed tech info on whatever they do come up with.  Unless, of course, some moran happens to leave a laptop lying around. :) 

Aside: radioactivity measured across the river from TMI peaked at only 20 - 30 mrems/hr but quickly subsided to 1 mrem/hr (about the dose received by passengers on a Concorde flight).

Here&#039;s a cool link on TMI from GSU:

http://tinyurl.com/yv2ag7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobbo, I can&#8217;t find any definitive answers on disposal of nuke waste.  There are so many crackpot ideas (Marianas Trench) and so much DOE total BS there&#8217;s just no way to be sure.</p>
<p>But you can bet on one thing &#8212; the DOE won&#8217;t be releasing the detailed tech info on whatever they do come up with.  Unless, of course, some moran happens to leave a laptop lying around. <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Aside: radioactivity measured across the river from TMI peaked at only 20 &#8211; 30 mrems/hr but quickly subsided to 1 mrem/hr (about the dose received by passengers on a Concorde flight).</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a cool link on TMI from GSU:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/yv2ag7" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tinyurl.com/yv2ag7' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yv2ag7</a></p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951579</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951579</guid>
		<description>#29--Bubba==respecting you as I do==there was &quot;no harm&quot; to the environment in TMI?  So, just release of radioactivity that floated downwind with an undocumented health effect.  OK.  I agree. No environmental harm.

But to my respect--in a past google I read several sites that stated the radioactive waste problem was overstated in that the majority bulk of waste with a long half life was not that harmful.  Then I read other websites that call the waste the most harmful substance on earth?  I think they are talking about different issues, but hard to tell?

Now--seems to me that ANY STORAGE SOLUTION must be taken on faith?  How do you test the long term storage of any container except by a long term storage test?--ie--cannot be relied on.  The glass enclosed, ceramic wrapped, covered in concrete containers were supposed to last for 10K&#039;s of years and started leaking after 3 years.  They discovered an unknown chemical reaction between the inert materials!!!  Har!!!!!

So--the only safe nuke disposal is a technology that &quot;uses it all up?&quot;  But like you, it would be nice to read an authorative post on point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29&#8211;Bubba==respecting you as I do==there was &#8220;no harm&#8221; to the environment in TMI?  So, just release of radioactivity that floated downwind with an undocumented health effect.  OK.  I agree. No environmental harm.</p>
<p>But to my respect&#8211;in a past google I read several sites that stated the radioactive waste problem was overstated in that the majority bulk of waste with a long half life was not that harmful.  Then I read other websites that call the waste the most harmful substance on earth?  I think they are talking about different issues, but hard to tell?</p>
<p>Now&#8211;seems to me that ANY STORAGE SOLUTION must be taken on faith?  How do you test the long term storage of any container except by a long term storage test?&#8211;ie&#8211;cannot be relied on.  The glass enclosed, ceramic wrapped, covered in concrete containers were supposed to last for 10K&#8217;s of years and started leaking after 3 years.  They discovered an unknown chemical reaction between the inert materials!!!  Har!!!!!</p>
<p>So&#8211;the only safe nuke disposal is a technology that &#8220;uses it all up?&#8221;  But like you, it would be nice to read an authorative post on point.</p>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951561</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951561</guid>
		<description>#27, bobbo,

Chernobyl was a really poor design.  TMI didn&#039;t harm the environment, but remember, the accident happened almost 30 years ago.  It, too, is old tech.

New nukes are practical, cost efficient (even after the expenses piled on them for inspections and govt. regs.) and dependable.  As far as I can tell from reliable sources, the only real problem remaining is disposal of the nuke waste.

We will be able to solve that problem with some of the new disposal tech, hopefully soon.  Nanotech, buckyball and other approaches are being investigated.

Maybe there&#039;s a nuke plant expert here who could enlighten us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27, bobbo,</p>
<p>Chernobyl was a really poor design.  TMI didn&#8217;t harm the environment, but remember, the accident happened almost 30 years ago.  It, too, is old tech.</p>
<p>New nukes are practical, cost efficient (even after the expenses piled on them for inspections and govt. regs.) and dependable.  As far as I can tell from reliable sources, the only real problem remaining is disposal of the nuke waste.</p>
<p>We will be able to solve that problem with some of the new disposal tech, hopefully soon.  Nanotech, buckyball and other approaches are being investigated.</p>
<p>Maybe there&#8217;s a nuke plant expert here who could enlighten us.</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951484</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951484</guid>
		<description>#22--Li---&quot;*coughs* One thinks that my emphasis upon wind, solar and methane would have made my skepticism about nuclear pretty clear.&quot;

If that is a response to my post #20==please comment on what was posted.  While both statements are not 100% accurate, which is more insightful/revelatory/meaningful/relevant?

A--“the disposal issue still hasn’t been fully answered yet” 

or

B--&quot;the disposal issue has not been answered at all.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#22&#8211;Li&#8212;&#8221;*coughs* One thinks that my emphasis upon wind, solar and methane would have made my skepticism about nuclear pretty clear.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that is a response to my post #20==please comment on what was posted.  While both statements are not 100% accurate, which is more insightful/revelatory/meaningful/relevant?</p>
<p>A&#8211;“the disposal issue still hasn’t been fully answered yet” </p>
<p>or</p>
<p>B&#8211;&#8221;the disposal issue has not been answered at all.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951483</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951483</guid>
		<description>#26--&quot;More likely there would be envirocrazies who would sabotage it on purpose.&quot;  Yes, or terrorists of all ilks.

Yes, another good reason not to go nuke.  Often commented that Americans have short memories.  I think the evidence is clear on Nuke energy that there is no memory at all.  3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, plants closed or under reduced operations due to problems are recent examples of the risk outweighing the supposed benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#26&#8211;&#8221;More likely there would be envirocrazies who would sabotage it on purpose.&#8221;  Yes, or terrorists of all ilks.</p>
<p>Yes, another good reason not to go nuke.  Often commented that Americans have short memories.  I think the evidence is clear on Nuke energy that there is no memory at all.  3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, plants closed or under reduced operations due to problems are recent examples of the risk outweighing the supposed benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951457</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951457</guid>
		<description>Exactly, liftoff would be the problem, though you get similar problems moving all the waste to Yucca.  Now we add one more problem.  That why I said wait a few decades to bring the costs down, maybe get some good shielding in case of an accident.

More likely there would be envirocrazies who would sabotage it on purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, liftoff would be the problem, though you get similar problems moving all the waste to Yucca.  Now we add one more problem.  That why I said wait a few decades to bring the costs down, maybe get some good shielding in case of an accident.</p>
<p>More likely there would be envirocrazies who would sabotage it on purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951333</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951333</guid>
		<description>#24, Li, you could toss the entire Earth into the Sun and it wouldn&#039;t make one darn bit of difference to the star.  No long term effect.  None.  Whatsoever.  VolumeE / VolumeS ~= 7.6*e-7.

It might be neat to watch, though!

The entire Earth would be vaporized before it hit the surface -- the coronal temperature is about 15,000,000° C.

The problem with sending waste material to the Sun is getting it out of HEO.  One single accident on liftoff, 2nd stage, etc. and it will be a problem that we cannot handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24, Li, you could toss the entire Earth into the Sun and it wouldn&#8217;t make one darn bit of difference to the star.  No long term effect.  None.  Whatsoever.  VolumeE / VolumeS ~= 7.6*e-7.</p>
<p>It might be neat to watch, though!</p>
<p>The entire Earth would be vaporized before it hit the surface &#8212; the coronal temperature is about 15,000,000° C.</p>
<p>The problem with sending waste material to the Sun is getting it out of HEO.  One single accident on liftoff, 2nd stage, etc. and it will be a problem that we cannot handle.</p>
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		<title>By: Li</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-951027</link>
		<dc:creator>Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-951027</guid>
		<description>Plutonium or other heavy metals could poison the sun by placing heavy compounds in the outer corona where they are not detected. I would not advise dumping our waste into our star, unless you think that fossil fuels can keep the whole world warm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plutonium or other heavy metals could poison the sun by placing heavy compounds in the outer corona where they are not detected. I would not advise dumping our waste into our star, unless you think that fossil fuels can keep the whole world warm.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-950886</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950886</guid>
		<description>Nuclear is here now and has been for decades.  In Europe it&#039;s even more established.

What are those plants doing with their nuclear waste?

They could always send everything into space towards the sun.  

If there is a decades solution, then the space solution will get cheaper and cheaper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear is here now and has been for decades.  In Europe it&#8217;s even more established.</p>
<p>What are those plants doing with their nuclear waste?</p>
<p>They could always send everything into space towards the sun.  </p>
<p>If there is a decades solution, then the space solution will get cheaper and cheaper.</p>
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		<title>By: Li</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-950708</link>
		<dc:creator>Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950708</guid>
		<description>*coughs* One thinks that my emphasis upon wind, solar and methane would have made my skepticism about nuclear pretty clear. The only thing that might turn it around are some of the new nuclear battery designs, but they are untested and solar and wind are here now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*coughs* One thinks that my emphasis upon wind, solar and methane would have made my skepticism about nuclear pretty clear. The only thing that might turn it around are some of the new nuclear battery designs, but they are untested and solar and wind are here now.</p>
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		<title>By: iGlobalWarmer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-2/#comment-950693</link>
		<dc:creator>iGlobalWarmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950693</guid>
		<description>I would like to see the US begin construction on at least 100 nuke plants by Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see the US begin construction on at least 100 nuke plants by Monday.</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-1/#comment-950585</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950585</guid>
		<description>Nuclear Power is another government corporate welfare program with as much economic/scientific support as the GOUSA&#039;s other energy program==corn based ethanol.

Wake up dopes.  Li is WRONG.  &quot;the disposal issue still hasn’t been fully answered yet&quot; attempts but fails to state the fact that the disposal issue HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED AT ALL!

Poisonous to all life for 100K&#039;s of years?  Yes.  Lets burden future generations with even more crap than we already have.

Good plan, because it is &quot;cheap&quot; for us?  Many things are cheap when their waste products are dumped into the environment.  And thats what storage on site is==dumping plain and simple.

Lets wait until the waste problem is SOLVED before we go poisoning ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear Power is another government corporate welfare program with as much economic/scientific support as the GOUSA&#8217;s other energy program==corn based ethanol.</p>
<p>Wake up dopes.  Li is WRONG.  &#8220;the disposal issue still hasn’t been fully answered yet&#8221; attempts but fails to state the fact that the disposal issue HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED AT ALL!</p>
<p>Poisonous to all life for 100K&#8217;s of years?  Yes.  Lets burden future generations with even more crap than we already have.</p>
<p>Good plan, because it is &#8220;cheap&#8221; for us?  Many things are cheap when their waste products are dumped into the environment.  And thats what storage on site is==dumping plain and simple.</p>
<p>Lets wait until the waste problem is SOLVED before we go poisoning ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Li</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-1/#comment-950540</link>
		<dc:creator>Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950540</guid>
		<description>Speaking of high breakdown rates, what ever ended up happening about that BP pipeline that corroded through last year, spiking the oil and gas prices down here in the lower 48? 

The difference between wind and oil is that when the windmill breaks down, the owner stops making money until it is fixed, but when the pipeline breaks down, you make more money by delaying action. 

BTW, solar systems are usually very low maintenance, especially when compared to a coal fired power plant. Suppose that is why coal needs all of that welfare to stay profitable: 10-40 billion a year, in bits and pieces. I wonder what affect such socialism has on their competitiveness in the private market, hmm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of high breakdown rates, what ever ended up happening about that BP pipeline that corroded through last year, spiking the oil and gas prices down here in the lower 48? </p>
<p>The difference between wind and oil is that when the windmill breaks down, the owner stops making money until it is fixed, but when the pipeline breaks down, you make more money by delaying action. </p>
<p>BTW, solar systems are usually very low maintenance, especially when compared to a coal fired power plant. Suppose that is why coal needs all of that welfare to stay profitable: 10-40 billion a year, in bits and pieces. I wonder what affect such socialism has on their competitiveness in the private market, hmm?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-1/#comment-950524</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950524</guid>
		<description>So you don&#039;t want government to have the freedom to turn off your power.  Where were you on the last post about the turnoff switches during peak power use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you don&#8217;t want government to have the freedom to turn off your power.  Where were you on the last post about the turnoff switches during peak power use?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/01/11/britain-to-end-wavering-over-nuclear-power/comment-page-1/#comment-950356</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=15518#comment-950356</guid>
		<description>YOu believe it would be cheaper,  but the real world examples show the breakdown rates are tremendous.  If those companies have to compete in the private market, then presumably they&#039;ll figure it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YOu believe it would be cheaper,  but the real world examples show the breakdown rates are tremendous.  If those companies have to compete in the private market, then presumably they&#8217;ll figure it out.</p>
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