My wife and I went to Orlando for a few days after Xmas and stayed in a very upscale four star hotel. I had seen this report before I left and the first thing I did after checking in was inspect the glasses in the room. They had finger prints and lip prints on them and obviously had only been rinsed out. This is a widespread problem in this country with all the legal and illegal Hispanic hotel maids. I guess they were raised to different standards in their country.
#140 three headed pudnocker
“No, son….BLA BLA BLA”
Wow you logic is really mixed up. You made your claims first. I called you out and said they are racist. You therefore are bound to provide evidence to substantiate your claims.
‘That means it’s up to YOU to support your ad hominem fallacy…….BLA BLA BLA BLA”
LOL have you even looked at your own posts? LOL you are such a dolt!
“You persist in demanding that I cite Sociobiology to support my assertions.”
Yes because you make claims that it backed you up but out and out refuse to prove me wrong using the evidence you claim is within those texts.
“By doing this, you pretty much demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that either a) you have not read the book, or b) you have read, and completely misunderstood, the book.”
Then STFU and prove me wrong and post a passage from one of those books that backs up your remarks. Dolt!
“The central thesis of the book – of the SCIENCE ITSELF – is that human behavior, in absolute contradiction to your ideological bullshit claims, has evolved”
Are you sure about that part about ideological bullshit is in that thesis because it doesn’t match the forward of the book.
Like I said before I agree with most of if not all of the findings of those authors. The problem is you are not quoting them and they do not back up the statements you have made.
“That, you flaming bozo, means that Hispanics’ cultural characteristics, AND their intelligence, ARE INHERITED.”
That is not at all what they mean. Perhaps a few more classes in reading comprehension.
“You need to go play with your Jabba the Hutt action figure.”
Oh no no no It is way to valuable to play with.
“It would seem that talk is cheap, but coughing up a couple bucks for an important book is a little bit too rich for the blood.”
Well at least you admit your position.
“Try reading a letter, signed by many of the world’s acknowledged authorities on intelligence…..BLA BLA BLA BLA”
I can’t help but laugh at you. You should read the book the Bell Curve Debate. It has 81 scientists that have issues with the link you posted.
Also Here read this link http://tiny.cc/P9NwQ
You see my three headed simpleton there is still a great deal of debate and my 81 scientists out number your 50
Go back to the drawing boards because your proof not only still does not defend your comments but is still hotly debated BY SCIENTISTS and not Marxist propagandists
“which also means who know far more than you will ever know”
Hey let me introduce you to Ph.D. #1 and Ph.D. #2.
“it’s Hell when all the facts are against you, ain’t it, ”
I will take your word for it since that seems to be the position you are in.
You must really hate Hispanics. Otherwise why would you fight so hard to twist scientific debate to try and defend comments like.
“What you don’t grasp is the higher average intelligence of Asians versus Hispanics” – the three headed cat
“Here’s the shocker – the cop taking the bribes? MEXICAN. Not black, not white, not Asian. – and NOT A COINCIDENCE.” – the three headed cat
“A Chinese peasant makes more money, they will seek education – if not for themselves, for their children. An Hispanic peasant makes more money, he buys a big TV or chrome rims for his F-150″ – the three headed cat
Yet again sonny, you are determined to prove to the world that you haven’t a clue.
“Wow you logic is really mixed up. You made your claims first. I called you out and said they are racist. You therefore are bound to provide evidence to substantiate your claims.”
You said they are racist. Big fucking whoop. And I should give a shit for exactly what reason?
Here. Let me explain as I would to a mildly retarded child.
I said “Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. Blah.”
You responded. But your response consisted of nothing whatsoever but an ad hom. falsehood, with no attempt to back it up with fact or logic.
Your response is nothing but a logical fallacy. I am neither obliged nor expected to rebut a fallacy.
YOU are the one disputing what I have said. Therefore, either offer fact and or reasoning which negates my assertions or STFU. Calling me a name does not constitute a rebuttal. Most H.S. grads of my day understood that much, it required no special grasp of logic or debate skills.
You just keep drinking that Kool-Aid, sonny. Your “contoversy” is carried on in the pages of the liberal mass media, not in the definitive scientific journals. And it is taken every bit as seriously by intelligence researchers as the evolution v. ID “controversy” is by evolutionary biologists, which is to say that it is universally recognized to be an invention of ideologues with a political axe to grind.
Saying that the races differ in average intelligence is in no way “racist.” Only the radical Left dishonestly poisons the discourse with ludicrous accusations. The races differ greatly from each other, and in every way. PCers can’t respond with science, since theirs is a political belief, so they resort to anything they can do to paint dedicated scientific researchers as a mob of hooded rednecks carrrying torches and ropes, trying to establish the “superiority” of their race. Only an asshole fails to eventually notice that the science says absolutely nothing about “superior” or “inferior” – those are value judgments. It’s you PC clowns and you alone who claim that one group having a higher average intelligence than another somehow makes that group “superior.” Fucking straw man of Leftist invention, nothing more. Science doesn’t assert such ridiculous shit. Dishonest, dirty, deceptive and deluded Marxist ideologues sure do, though.
Und now, your story hass grown tiresome. Go send George Lucas another fan letter, sonny.
FIRST OFF PLEASE SPARE ME THE CLAIMS OF AD HOM ATTACKS YOU HAVE BEEN SPITTING THEM UP LIKE A TAIWANESE HOOKER!!
“You said they are racist. Big fucking whoop. And I should give a shit for exactly what reason?”
I didn’t say you should give a shit. You made a claim. I disputed your claim. You showed no evidence to back up your claim. It is that simple my three headed sperm catcher.
“Here. Let me explain as I would to a mildly retarded child.”
Mr Catshit says pedro is not retarded he just doesn’t speak English as a first language
“YOU are the one disputing what I have said. Therefore, either offer fact and or reasoning which negates my assertions or STFU. ”
I did. Did you read them? oops! I noticed this link didn’t work http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/bellcurve.shtml but even still I gave you the title of a book to read that has plenty of scientific evidence that refutes the claims made in the bell curve.
“Calling me a name does not constitute a rebuttal”
True but it is fun my three headed douche
“You just keep drinking that Kool-Aid, sonny”
I prefer Crystal Light.
“Your “contoversy” is carried on in the pages of the liberal mass media, not in the definitive scientific journals. And it is taken every bit as seriously by intelligence researchers as the evolution v. ID “controversy” is by evolutionary biologists”
Really? Stephen Jay Gould was one of the most if not THE most respected, and cited evolutionary biologist since Darwin. His work and the another 80 scientists, also experts on intelligence, contributed to the book, The Bell Curve Debate, are publish in Numerous scientific periodicals. So I guess you would be wrong on that account.
Which leads me to your dishonest description of the people that contributed to that WSJ article. you said
“Try reading a letter, signed by many of the world’s acknowledged authorities on intelligence”
To bad that is not exactly accurate. Some are authorities on intelligence Most are not and study in what would be considered allied fields.
I won’t even bother to inform you of who Linda Gottfredson gets her funding from and the history of that little group.
The rest of your post is just your rambling conspiracy theories so I won’t even bother to try and sort them out.
You still to this point have provided no scientific evidence that back up your vast array of racist statements. The link you provided is at best in contention and limited in narrow scope to the United States. In addition you mis interpret what you read to assume that it some how make Hispanics dirty people who have no desire for education. There is nothing at all about that in the “Mainstream Science on Intelligence” manifesto nor in any of the books you listed. That is something you pulled out of you own bigoted mind and attempted to justify using statistical data that is still hotly debated and three books that say nor imply such a thing.
Again 81 to 52 in my favor as far as legitimate scholars on the issue yet you say that you are correct. You can claim anything you want but you are nothing more than a typical arm chair quarterback that pick up a little info on the intertubes and decided it fit within his bigoted view and it looked respectable except you didn’t realize that it really doesn’t. I have let you steer this debate away from your original remarks to a debate on whether the bell curve is valid. It is to bad you original remarks were that Hispanics were dirty and had no value for education and were bent toward criminal activity. NOTHING you have presented backs up any of those statements. NOTHING you have presented even discusses such things. Yet you claim that they do and anyone who demands proof is a Marxist. BTW you need to look up the fucking term because you are throwing it around like it was your wife at a frat party. Each and every use you have given is inappropriate.
It is late I am tired and you are wrong and a racist dolt that I no longer wish to discuss this issue. Go on live your life with the hatred you seem to have toward Hispanics. It will eat you from inside. My guess is that it already has.
Ouch – ouch ! Had to come back to see how this was laid to rest(?). From my point of view it got pretty vicious here at the ned folks. Not sure how the rest of you guys scored this one but it was a bitter one.
It’s been nice to read from people who’ve obviously spent much time attempting to understand that portion of their world that grabbed their interests. I do so enjoy this blog for that opportunity as I will make no claims of similar work to do anything as intense in the life I’ve wandered through.
It is with a tremendous sense of mirth I read one of THCs’ comments about the class of people who dare to insult his beliefs and/or knowledge..a GED sitting on a barstool… I own a tavern and a GED..and a few semesters in a fancy private college I wish I’d taken more seriously.
In this “discussion” I have found a difficulty understanding THCs’ position, probably because I am not familiar with the authors he quotes. On the level of my own particular experiences and nothing more, I tend to side with the 82 scientists and the position ‘J’ has taken. Some scientists studying quantum physics believe if you observe something at the quantum level it changes its’ true nature or has that potential. I often wonder if that happens to social scientists studying all of us from within themselves ?
I’m comfortable with my life, as it was and where it might be going. I don’t know if THC can say that and I do wonder about bobbo, he seems a tad edgy but, maybe he’s just more cognizant of the details and gets impatient ?
At any rate of whatever your particular exchange..remember me and the rest of the semi-illiterate are marxing to the beat of dem ol’ trailer town drums. and a bf’ng LOL to ya’ !
DeLeMa – The smears and bullshit accusations of racism are part of the distasteful PC campaign to deny human differences. After listening to such intellectual Lysenkoism, I always feel like washing my hands.
If you are interested in following this issue (which is currently stalled, but will be revived as soon as I personally get some personal scheduling issues solidified), you, and by that I mean you, are more than welcome to come over to CM and participate. Parrots, such as my current “opponent” are superfluous to the discussion…
• • • •
Well, J, it’s like this. The Bell Curve Debate doesn’t carry much weight with scientists, because despite containing some thought-provoking essays, is extremely short on factual scientific rebuttal. In fact, the entire output of the tiny cottage industry of piling-on The Bell Curve is remarkable, in retrospect, for having virtual no valid scientific rebuttal – lots of hand-wringing and name-calling, though. To this day, the results brought together in TBC have stood, something your Marxist pals fervently hope nobody notices. Scientific rebuttals have not been forthcoming. Live with it.
As far as the well-known Marxist Gould is concerned, The Mismeasure of Man is an embarrassment to the world of science. It was very popular among the uninformed and propagandized lay public and among scientists it was, and is, shunned by all but ideologues, having been debunked and dissected from here to Timbuktu.
An absolutely lovely disposal of Gould and his propaganda, The Mismeasure of Gould, can be found here.
• • • •
Here’s a little something from Eysenck, one of the world’s top authorities on intelligence; an excerpt from Intelligence: A New Look, wherein he deals with the absurd, dishonest and ludicrous accusations of the Marxists:
Hey, Ed.? Could you pleeeeze put the missing /a after the link, my last there? Huh? Huh? Couldja?
#144–DeLeMa==you own a tavern? I would drink my profits away, so I couldn’t hanle that ==but–ties right into the question I rhetorically asked you in our other thread==how many fathers and sons come in for a friendly drink and discussion in your establishment?? and why do you think it doesn’t happen more often?
#145–3HC==did you correctly characterize your quoted material? The quote is entirely accurate and correct to me. Seems like you should have said ” wherein he deals with the absurd, dishonest and ludicrous accusations AGAINST the Marxists”—IE, substitute against for of?
Reverses the meaning of what you wrote, so, I’m just wondering.
I could’ve been more specific – the accusations of racism come from today’s academic Marxist mafia, based in such places as Harvard… Eysenck points out that they (meaning the present-day critics of intelligence science) don’t even get their Marxism straight.
When I refer to Marxism, I am always referring to the present-day incarnation of Political Correctness, including the absurd positions of the radical Left in academia, such as the gender feminists with their crackpot “science is a male invention to subjugate women, women know things in a different way” spiel, or the Afrocentrists with their hilarious “Africans before the time of Christ had electricity, but the Greeks stole the idea from them” and similar loonybin horseshit offered up by so-called “scholars”…
No, actually, old-school Marxists don’t want to be caught dead within loud-hailer distance of such imbeciles.
#148–3HC==well, I agree with your post. That specific post. Yet, I wonder if you and I are mischaracterizing the basic tenents of those movements by its more extreme minorities? Still–if true, then it was only the minority interest that gets heard on so many issues.
Thinking of the Harvard President that got canned for suggeting male and female IQ’s might be “differently” optimized. I think the truth is, he (Summers?) was correct, but was brought down by the “femi-nazi’s” of the women’s rights movement.
So–if that is true–is the women’s rights movement really its benign uninvolved majority, or its strident p/c crowd?
So–3HC==you continue to rail against the p/c of failing to see social behavior strongly influenced by racial identity==but still no quotes on point.
How come?
Stop poking J ==and make your case. A single quote? -Please?- With sugar on top?
To respond to your query – here – is to throw gasoline on the already-flaming skull of the current PC Parrot. I promise to take this up with you over at CM and provide for you some examples…
#145 the three headed butt leach
“The smears and bullshit accusations of racism are part of the distasteful PC campaign to deny human differences. ”
Bullshit! Straw man argument. No one is denying human differences. You keep trying to slide away from YOUR comments which are not backed up by any of the research you claim does.
“Well, J, it’s like this. The Bell Curve Debate doesn’t carry much weight with scientists”
Says who? You? a few other scientists that disagree with it? Take a look at the info you posted again numb nuts. In it they themselves admit to the possibility of inaccuracies because of the methods they used to collect the information. You fucking DOLT!
“is extremely short on factual scientific rebuttal.”
Really? Haven’t read that either huh? Just relying on what you found on the intertubes?
“As far as the well-known Marxist Gould is concern”
There we go attack the source. What credentials do you have to refute Dr. Gould’s findings? Lets not forget he was the most respected evolutionary biologist in history. That is not even disputed by most his critics. When talking about genetics or heredity don’t you think it is better to turn to a geneticist of an evolutionary biologist rather than the sources you keep posting which are all psychologists?
You keep trying to narrow this debate to intelligence only. You do this because you think you have discovered that there is some actual proof that certain races are genetically more intelligent. Despite the continuing debate over the issue you want to claim victory. I bet you have problems with pre mature ejaculate too. You have made claims about Hispanics that include they a dirty because of their culture and that they are genetically predisposed to take bribes. Nothing you have posted backs that up.
You post one mans rebuttal to Dr, Gould. How about the other 80 scientists that agree with him? Do you have rebuttals to their research?
When someone doesn’t agree with your position you want to do the same thing you do with Hispanics. Call them names and group them together as if they were all exactly the same. How ironic it must be for you. You want to claim differences between races but when it comes to within individual races everyone is the same. That is racist!
Why don’t you go back and actually read the stuff you post. If you have any background in science you would see the methods that were used to collect the statistical data for the “Mainstream Science on Intelligence” and the “Bell Curve” were terribly flawed for the conclusions they draw. Almost equivalent to push polling
#148 the three headed ignoramus
I see you must have looked up Marxist on the intertubes. Lets see how far you decide to backslide.
#149 bobbo
Look up Dr. James Watson See where the scientific community stands on the three headed knothead’s belief. He claims there is no debate within. I think you will find that to be incorrect. Dr. Watson recently claimed that black people were genetically less intelligent than white people. Take a look and see how the scientific community took that claim. I am sure the three headed anal wart will say that all the people that stood up and said no are PC Marxists. But that is what we have come to expect from him.
J==we had a cage match on racial IQ. I am willing to accept there “could be” racial differences in mean IQ==very much dependent on how IQ and race are defined.
In pragmatic effect, even 3hC agreed, that such a fact doesn’t matter unless almost all of one group is superior to almost all of some other group.
Fact is, as in the Bell Shaped Curve, there is more overlap than anything else on practically anything you wish to measure.
Meaning–any rational person is not intentionally bigoted, because the person before you is unique.
Why argue over “facts” that make no difference? 3HC has yet to confound that point.
#152 bobbo
You seem to have fallen for his trick too.
THIS ISN”T ABOUT INTELLIGENCE!!!!
He has steered the debate in that direction because he thinks he has found evidence that backs up his one of many racial comments.
In addition to his false claims that Asians are genetically more intelligent than Hispanics. He has stated that Hispanics are dirty and that Hispanics are predisposed to be criminals.
Where? Where I ask you did he post scientific evidence to back those things up?
NOWHERE!!! HE IS A RACIST! and he does the scientific community a disservice in saying that science backs up his position.
Like I said look up Dr. James Watson and the controversy over his comments. You will find that some of the same people that signed the three headed worm chubber’s WSJ manifesto, came out and refuted Dr. James Watson’s remarks that African Americans were genetically less intelligent.
I urge you look at the way the statistics were collected for that article. They themselves admit to the potential of error in the results because of the collection method.
…also, bobbamentarioalleroito, the problem with PC, is that it’s propaganda-driven. Few people who spout these accusations of “Racism! Sexism! Homophobia! Etc!” actually ever took the time to examine the “reasoning” behind them, because they already had been told that these are what all “tolerant” “open-minded” “liberal” people are supposed to believe. So you don’t hear the embarrassing extremist idiocies, which are actually what are being promoted behind the scenes, but instead, the superficially acceptable ‘feel-good’ stuff, that few reasonable people would think at first glance there was anything extreme or wacky or wrong about.
Propagandists rely on emotion, on reaction, on rabble-rousing and sloganeering, not on facts, which they want to drown out, as they do not serve the extremist agenda. So, plenty of people, inside of academia and out, keep their heads down so as to not be attacked and smeared by the vicious demagogues. It’s cowardice, but understandable. As you noticed with Larry Summers, had he only (hypocritically) kept it between himself and others who know what’s actually what – but instead he made the mistake of speaking his mind, of exercising the (illusory) freedom of academia, which the PC extremists deny to anyone who dares disagree. I, as you might’ve noticed, am generally not afraid to speak up, but I also don’t have a position or public reputation at stake, so it’s easier for me.
So, yes. Women think a bit differently from men. Not better, not worse, not “superior” or “inferior” – different. Still 100% human. As you recognize in this instance, difference does not equate to either inferiority or superiority, and so it is with intelligence science. Science is not there to make value judgments, nor to rubberstamp the “correct” political beliefs. Politics and society are to adjust to what science determines is so, not the other way around, and provide dishonest validation of predetermined belief systems.
The radical left – just like the Pope in that other recent thread – already knows what is right. And neither one wants facts to upset their ideological applecart. So they use the tactics of manipulating laymen into emotionally rejecting science they know nothing about. The PC cry of “racism!” or “sexism!” is the Marxist way of pointing the finger and screeching “Silence the enemy heretics!” Hardly the “open-minded,” “tolerant,” “intellectually honest” way of exploring an issue, is it?
J–it doesn’t matter. Even if true, it doesn’t matter.
Details not necessary.
The IQ differences between races have not only not been “refuted”, every bit of research conducted over the last 30-40 years has further confirmed the findings of Drs. Rushton and Jensen. The body of knowledge of racial differences in IQ scores increases constantly, and the radical Left’s increasingly feeble and desperate attempts to muddy the waters fool no one but fools.
J, my mentally-deficient friend, why can’t you ever even attempt to address an actual substantive point? Because you can’t.
Here’s the most recent – have at it. Try to gin up some ludicrous nonsense in response.
I restate Eysenck’s observation:
Why, oh why, do white supremacist racists, wanting to prove the “superiority” of their own race, keep saying that ASIANS score higher than whites? Huh? Pretty dumb for so-called “scientists” to miss something that obvious, right? Is that how they plan to do it? Prove that whites are superior by proving that Asians are?
You pathetic moron.
#155 bobbo
“it doesn’t matter. Even if true, it doesn’t matter.”
Yes it does because he is maligning the facts of science to fit his racist world view. If he had read the damn article he would know the collection methods were flawed.
#156 the three headed crank
You can post as many names as you want of scientists you think back up your claim on intelligence. We could go on for ever post counter post of scientists that agree and disagree. Of course you would attack the credibility of mine with the claim they are PC Marxists despite their undisputed reputation. Which is the only argument you have. That will get us nowhere.
#157 the three headed wanker
“why can’t you ever even attempt to address an actual substantive point? ”
Because you are trying to steer the debate toward one specific issue and I won’t let you. You claimed Hispanics are dirty, and uninterested in education and predisposed to criminal activity. Nothing you have posted backs that up.
Eysnck’s observation is a strawman argument. No one claims that this is a “white supremacists” issue. It is a racism issue.
Nice try. I am sorry you didn’t notice that about that comment my three headed g-tard.
“…the collection methods were flawed.”
No, sonny. That’s your problem in a nutshell. Having zero education or training in any discipline that requires clear, precise logical thought, you make common laymen’s errors of interpretation.
The collection methods were apparently NOT “flawed.” As you mentioned earlier, the best the opposition could come up with was a rather sad exposition of wishful thinking in citing the standard disclaimer that was made about the possibility of error. What you said: “…they themselves admit to the possibility of inaccuracies because of the methods they used to collect the information.”
That’s right, sonny. And it was – and is – an open invitation to FIND ANY ACTUAL ERRORS. And, sad to say, NO ONE, DESPITE TRYING VERY, VERY HARD TO DO SO – HAS YET DONE SO. Which means that we may very safely assume that those entirely hypothetical errors are no longer even hypothetical.
Idiot.
The rest of your crap consists of more tired, cliché evasions. Save it. Better yet, stuff it.
#159 the three headed chug nut
I quote from the WSJ article
“Because research on intelligence relies on self- classification into distinct racial categories, as does most other social-science research, its findings likewise relate to some unclear mixture of social and biological distinctions among groups (no one claims otherwise). ”
Hum? You don’t see the potential flaw in this kind of data gathering? No I suppose you don’t because the entire extent of your argument is that anyone who disagrees is a PC Marxist therefore they must be ignored. Have you been running around telling researchers you are Hispanic?
“The rest of your crap consists of more tired, cliché evasions.”
”
LOL OMG OTFL
Why do you continue to ignore your comments about Hispanics being dirty and pre disposed to criminal activity? You like to focus on one issue, an issue which is far from a scientific fact, and you choose to ignore the whole picture. When we paint your whole picture it is one of someone that is racist toward Hispanics. Once again you have posted NO proof to back up any of your claims about the Hispanic race. You seem to think I have some debate with the science of intelligence. I do not. I question some of the research but I am far from decided on the matter. My problem is with you and YOUR racist remarks which you keep claiming have scientific foundations but do not.
Now STFU I have work to do and have no more time for you ignorant nonsense.