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	<title>Comments on: Will Midwesterners ever learn Geologic Reality?</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: GoatHerderEd</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-2/#comment-1067456</link>
		<dc:creator>GoatHerderEd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1067456</guid>
		<description>Makes about as much sense as building below sea level in New Orleans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes about as much sense as building below sea level in New Orleans.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-2/#comment-1066941</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1066941</guid>
		<description>The Midwest has well defined flood zones, otherwise known as areas likely to flood in any 100 year period. Any real estate agent has access to the maps, and should warn clients away from those areas. 

However, you really can&#039;t predict where tornadoes will hit, other than anywhere in Tornado Alley (most of the Midwest, the South, and Texas). National Geographic printed a map showing tornado paths over their recorded history in the US. Much of those areas were covered in tornado paths. Tornadoes also hit elsewhere; downtown Salt Lake City got hit just a few years ago.

On earthquakes: there&#039;s a huge area in the Midwest, South and East, centered on New Madrid MO, that was affected by the New Madrid earthquake in the early 19th century. If that fault slips again as an 8.0 or 9.0 quake, St Louis and Memphis are going to be pancaked (from the quake and its effects on the Mississippi River), and many other cities are going to be badly damaged. The Science, History, and Weather Channels have run specials about the risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Midwest has well defined flood zones, otherwise known as areas likely to flood in any 100 year period. Any real estate agent has access to the maps, and should warn clients away from those areas. </p>
<p>However, you really can&#8217;t predict where tornadoes will hit, other than anywhere in Tornado Alley (most of the Midwest, the South, and Texas). National Geographic printed a map showing tornado paths over their recorded history in the US. Much of those areas were covered in tornado paths. Tornadoes also hit elsewhere; downtown Salt Lake City got hit just a few years ago.</p>
<p>On earthquakes: there&#8217;s a huge area in the Midwest, South and East, centered on New Madrid MO, that was affected by the New Madrid earthquake in the early 19th century. If that fault slips again as an 8.0 or 9.0 quake, St Louis and Memphis are going to be pancaked (from the quake and its effects on the Mississippi River), and many other cities are going to be badly damaged. The Science, History, and Weather Channels have run specials about the risk.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Catshit</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1066480</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Catshit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1066480</guid>
		<description>In our neck of the woods, it was all swamp 100 years ago with just a few islands from glacial debris. Well, they started digging some ditches to drain the water and now we have extremely good farming soil. Only they let some of the ditches go without cleaning so they are filled up with sand. 

I know several people who have wet ground. My sump usually only runs in the wet spring and occasionally in the fall. It has run almost continuously since last winter. But I am still drier than many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our neck of the woods, it was all swamp 100 years ago with just a few islands from glacial debris. Well, they started digging some ditches to drain the water and now we have extremely good farming soil. Only they let some of the ditches go without cleaning so they are filled up with sand. </p>
<p>I know several people who have wet ground. My sump usually only runs in the wet spring and occasionally in the fall. It has run almost continuously since last winter. But I am still drier than many.</p>
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		<title>By: Li</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1066314</link>
		<dc:creator>Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1066314</guid>
		<description>18 makes a good point; there are plenty of high places with good drainage in the midwest, and many of them have good groundwater too boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>18 makes a good point; there are plenty of high places with good drainage in the midwest, and many of them have good groundwater too boot.</p>
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		<title>By: jccalhoun hates the spam filter</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1066232</link>
		<dc:creator>jccalhoun hates the spam filter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 04:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1066232</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve lived in the midwest my whole life and have never been anywhere near anywhere that needs to worry about flooding. To suggest that the whole midwest is flood-prone is a bit of an exaggeration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve lived in the midwest my whole life and have never been anywhere near anywhere that needs to worry about flooding. To suggest that the whole midwest is flood-prone is a bit of an exaggeration.</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065821</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065821</guid>
		<description>I recall aerial photos taken in California of large buildings in Los Angeles being built &quot;straddling&quot; a fault line clearly visible on the ground.  Don&#039;t know if those buildings are still there or not, &quot;but&quot; when people/developers cannot make rational decisions, it does benefit the public for the government to do it for them as in establishing rational zoning laws.  No dwellings in flood plains, across active fault lines, in the path of projected lava flows and what not.

That means much of New Orleans should be turned into public parks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall aerial photos taken in California of large buildings in Los Angeles being built &#8220;straddling&#8221; a fault line clearly visible on the ground.  Don&#8217;t know if those buildings are still there or not, &#8220;but&#8221; when people/developers cannot make rational decisions, it does benefit the public for the government to do it for them as in establishing rational zoning laws.  No dwellings in flood plains, across active fault lines, in the path of projected lava flows and what not.</p>
<p>That means much of New Orleans should be turned into public parks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065813</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065813</guid>
		<description>As a native Wisconsinite, I was a bit surprised to hear my home state being mentioned as the pinnacle example in this posting.  Anyone from Wisconsin will testify that we understand bizarre weather patterns all too well (ie., 106 degree weather in the summer of &#039;95, followed by -27 degree weather in early &#039;96).  We often joke, &quot;if you don&#039;t like the weather in WI, wait 15 minutes.&quot;

And as mentioned before, every state has locales where &quot;geologic reality&quot; is ignored.  Every state has natural disasters.  Every state, in short, has unfortunate events due to weather.  No locale is immune.

It&#039;s a matter of developers who find a cheap plot of land in a flood plain and build beautiful houses there.

&quot;If you build it, they will come.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a native Wisconsinite, I was a bit surprised to hear my home state being mentioned as the pinnacle example in this posting.  Anyone from Wisconsin will testify that we understand bizarre weather patterns all too well (ie., 106 degree weather in the summer of &#8217;95, followed by -27 degree weather in early &#8217;96).  We often joke, &#8220;if you don&#8217;t like the weather in WI, wait 15 minutes.&#8221;</p>
<p>And as mentioned before, every state has locales where &#8220;geologic reality&#8221; is ignored.  Every state has natural disasters.  Every state, in short, has unfortunate events due to weather.  No locale is immune.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a matter of developers who find a cheap plot of land in a flood plain and build beautiful houses there.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you build it, they will come.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Phillep</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065811</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065811</guid>
		<description>#12, Bill, California&#039;s quakes are in the middle of a corrugated area, and that stiffens the ground.

The New Madrid fault is in the middle of a trampoline a thousand miles across. Wheee! More bounce for the buck for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12, Bill, California&#8217;s quakes are in the middle of a corrugated area, and that stiffens the ground.</p>
<p>The New Madrid fault is in the middle of a trampoline a thousand miles across. Wheee! More bounce for the buck for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065771</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065771</guid>
		<description>Head on down to your local newsstand and pick up a copy of the 2008 Farmers Almanac.  There&#039;s an article in there about &quot;Crazy 8&#039;s&quot; and how severe weather seems to occur during years that end in 8.

Just a quick rundown:

1748 - The Whitest Winter on Record
1888 - One of the Deadliest-ever storms in the prairie states
1898 - Various Severe Weather anomalies
1908 - 34 Tornadoes throughout the Southern states in a 3 day period
1918 - 42.5 inches of snow in Chicago.  That record still stands
1928 - More than 1,800 people die in floods due to dikes breaching caused by a Cat. 4 Hurricane
1938 - Hurricane in Long Island, New York, and Rhode Island kills more than 600
1948 - The Columbia River remained above Flood levels for 51 straight days.
1958 - 72 inches of snow fall in a 24 hour period in Montana
1978 - 2 paralyzing storms in the midwest and North East.  Pools are reported frozen over in Los Angeles
1988 - Record breaking high temps throughout North America, losses as a result reported at around $39 Billion
1998 - Several severe icing events throughout the North East

So, what does 2008 hold?  If history is any indication, watch out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Head on down to your local newsstand and pick up a copy of the 2008 Farmers Almanac.  There&#8217;s an article in there about &#8220;Crazy 8&#8242;s&#8221; and how severe weather seems to occur during years that end in 8.</p>
<p>Just a quick rundown:</p>
<p>1748 &#8211; The Whitest Winter on Record<br />
1888 &#8211; One of the Deadliest-ever storms in the prairie states<br />
1898 &#8211; Various Severe Weather anomalies<br />
1908 &#8211; 34 Tornadoes throughout the Southern states in a 3 day period<br />
1918 &#8211; 42.5 inches of snow in Chicago.  That record still stands<br />
1928 &#8211; More than 1,800 people die in floods due to dikes breaching caused by a Cat. 4 Hurricane<br />
1938 &#8211; Hurricane in Long Island, New York, and Rhode Island kills more than 600<br />
1948 &#8211; The Columbia River remained above Flood levels for 51 straight days.<br />
1958 &#8211; 72 inches of snow fall in a 24 hour period in Montana<br />
1978 &#8211; 2 paralyzing storms in the midwest and North East.  Pools are reported frozen over in Los Angeles<br />
1988 &#8211; Record breaking high temps throughout North America, losses as a result reported at around $39 Billion<br />
1998 &#8211; Several severe icing events throughout the North East</p>
<p>So, what does 2008 hold?  If history is any indication, watch out.</p>
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		<title>By: Badfish II</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065687</link>
		<dc:creator>Badfish II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065687</guid>
		<description>Just wait until the Appalachian Fault that runs down the Hudson River lets loose and destroys NYC. All that falling glass from the sky...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wait until the Appalachian Fault that runs down the Hudson River lets loose and destroys NYC. All that falling glass from the sky&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065579</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065579</guid>
		<description>The first earthquake I was even in was in Southern Illinois... and it was pretty big... Then I learned about the fault see #1... It&#039;s not that Midwesterners don&#039;t learn it&#039;s that you can&#039;t do much about it... and the forces are titanic!  hey.. I&#039;ll take California any day..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first earthquake I was even in was in Southern Illinois&#8230; and it was pretty big&#8230; Then I learned about the fault see #1&#8230; It&#8217;s not that Midwesterners don&#8217;t learn it&#8217;s that you can&#8217;t do much about it&#8230; and the forces are titanic!  hey.. I&#8217;ll take California any day..</p>
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		<title>By: rabsten</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065538</link>
		<dc:creator>rabsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065538</guid>
		<description>Midwesterners? Hell, no area in this country is immune from denial. The southeast builds and rebuilds in hurricane zones constantly. The majority of the southwest is a mostly-waterless, uninhabitable-by-humans wasteland without the diversion of the entire Colorado River basin.

And here in my home state of West Virginia dozens of towns are parked into either narrow valleys that flood whenever two+ inches of rain falls in a twenty-four hour period, or are situate on the rare flat land that abuts - you guessed it - a river. Following massive floods of the Tug River in 1977 and 1985, the ACE built, at a cost of approx. $400 MILLION, flood walls to protect the tiny burgs of Williamson and Matewan (I used to live in Williamson; it wasn&#039;t worth saving). Part of the enormous cost also went to &quot;raise&quot; houses outside the floodwalls by creating a new ground level that isn&#039;t supposed to be used for anything and lifting and placing the original house on top of said level, often at a cost well in excess of the original value of the home. Of course, all this did was give the homeowner an extra floor, which is often turned into living space filled with expensive fixtures (usually the TV room, with a nice flat-screen for the NASCAR, or a game room, complete with pool table).

Sheesh. I&#039;m all for property rights in principle, but when caveat emptor and moral hazard are removed, well, all bets are off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Midwesterners? Hell, no area in this country is immune from denial. The southeast builds and rebuilds in hurricane zones constantly. The majority of the southwest is a mostly-waterless, uninhabitable-by-humans wasteland without the diversion of the entire Colorado River basin.</p>
<p>And here in my home state of West Virginia dozens of towns are parked into either narrow valleys that flood whenever two+ inches of rain falls in a twenty-four hour period, or are situate on the rare flat land that abuts &#8211; you guessed it &#8211; a river. Following massive floods of the Tug River in 1977 and 1985, the ACE built, at a cost of approx. $400 MILLION, flood walls to protect the tiny burgs of Williamson and Matewan (I used to live in Williamson; it wasn&#8217;t worth saving). Part of the enormous cost also went to &#8220;raise&#8221; houses outside the floodwalls by creating a new ground level that isn&#8217;t supposed to be used for anything and lifting and placing the original house on top of said level, often at a cost well in excess of the original value of the home. Of course, all this did was give the homeowner an extra floor, which is often turned into living space filled with expensive fixtures (usually the TV room, with a nice flat-screen for the NASCAR, or a game room, complete with pool table).</p>
<p>Sheesh. I&#8217;m all for property rights in principle, but when caveat emptor and moral hazard are removed, well, all bets are off.</p>
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		<title>By: T.Bomber</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065517</link>
		<dc:creator>T.Bomber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065517</guid>
		<description>#5 - You may be an ace at artful alliteration, but #2 is correct.  There is no other way to interpret Dr. Criss&#039; statements than he doesn&#039;t understand what the term &quot;500-year levee&quot; means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5 &#8211; You may be an ace at artful alliteration, but #2 is correct.  There is no other way to interpret Dr. Criss&#8217; statements than he doesn&#8217;t understand what the term &#8220;500-year levee&#8221; means.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillep</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065388</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065388</guid>
		<description>You want &quot;dumb&quot;, take a look at the people building out on the &quot;islands&quot; outside Stockton, California. Those &quot;islands&quot; are below the level of the channels surrounding them, and the levees are over 100 years old. 

Stockton used to flood every year, back around 1950. All that&#039;s needed is a heavier than usual snow pack in the Sierra Nevadas, and it&#039;s &quot;glub glub glub&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You want &#8220;dumb&#8221;, take a look at the people building out on the &#8220;islands&#8221; outside Stockton, California. Those &#8220;islands&#8221; are below the level of the channels surrounding them, and the levees are over 100 years old. </p>
<p>Stockton used to flood every year, back around 1950. All that&#8217;s needed is a heavier than usual snow pack in the Sierra Nevadas, and it&#8217;s &#8220;glub glub glub&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/04/04/will-midwesterners-ever-learn-geologic-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-1065387</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=17022#comment-1065387</guid>
		<description>Second day in a row for this one...

Behold the power of cheese... and massive amounts of beer.

Nevertheless, the title of the article misses the mark: Midwesterners understand these cycles quite well. It&#039;s the federal government that continues to offer flood insurance to those that live in flood plains, allowing problems to repeat themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second day in a row for this one&#8230;</p>
<p>Behold the power of cheese&#8230; and massive amounts of beer.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, the title of the article misses the mark: Midwesterners understand these cycles quite well. It&#8217;s the federal government that continues to offer flood insurance to those that live in flood plains, allowing problems to repeat themselves.</p>
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