bobbo says:

#80–Peter==well, a poorly crafted graphic available to all that makes an atempt to explain is better than what God and Pat have done.

Just tell everyone you are the way, and then keep mum.

That old saying; “Better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you are an idiot than open it and remove all doubt.” (from memory).

Yes, “some people.”

Mr. Catshit says:

#82, Rick,

The founding fathers of the USA were deists.

Nope. Wrong. There were a couple of reasons for the First Amendment, but most of the Continental Congress were religious followers even if not firm believers.

The Church of England was the established church and a person usually had to belong before they could be a public official. Most of the low level Anglican priests were American born or of the people. The Bishops and leaders, on the other hand, were English nobility. For the same reason Washington couldn’t get a commission in the British Army, American Priests couldn’t become Anglican Bishops.

The revolution’s leadership were mostly the wealthy landowners (Jefferson, Washington) and business classes (Adams, Franklyn, Hamilton). They didn’t want their activities being governed by religious doctrine, nor did they want to share power with a church as was done in Britain and Europe. Remember, most of the causes of the revolution can be traced to power sharing between the colonies and Britain.

Then there was the small matter that not all the colonies had a majority of citizens of the Anglican Church. Some, such a New Jersey were majority Presbyterian with large portions of Baptists and Anabaptists. Pennsylvania and Delaware were noted for their religious tolerance and diversity.

Since they couldn’t satisfy everyone with just one State Church, they gave equal footing to every religion and superiority to none. Of all the Bill of Rights, this is the one section that had the most difficulty in gaining acceptance. It is also one of the smartest moves the framers could have made, even if for another reason.

Mr. Catshit says:

#84, Bobbo,

The fathers were a groupd of 12-15 or so, with Congress much larger?

Most of the Continental Congress became members later of the First Congress. The actual writing of the Constitution was done committee style but approved by the whole Congress. There was considerable debate and discussion about the document too. It was only after ratification by the various States that it became the founding document of the country.

… being intellectually removed enough to fashion political terms that would be acceptable to the masses

That is a misconception most people have with the origin of the nation. Nothing was done “for the masses”. The masses, for the most part, were better off before the revolution then they were afterwards. The Constitution was crafted to suit the rulers. The large landowners, merchants, and industrial types. The Constitution was not ratified by the people. It was done by the individual States assemblies.

Most of the representatives were rich or at least well to do. The power struggle was between them and Britain. Britain refused to allow the colonials any power. For example, George Washington was not allowed to join the British Army simply because he did not come from aristocratic stock. That same requirement held for Church of England bishops. The American colonies were prohibited from trading directly with West Indies colonies as that was reserved for British merchants. So the whole power shift was to empower the American upper class.

Don’t forget. Most American men couldn’t vote before or after the revolution. Qualifications included age and net worth. Dirt farmers were usually too indebted to make the cut. They were expected to pay taxes though afterwards.

Yes, yes, this is not what Americans are taught in school. They are also not taught that the Revolutionaries only comprised 1/3 of the population, 1/3 was pro-Britain, and 1/3 was totally ambivalent or just too constipated to give a shit. It has been suggested that the ambivalent were even more numerous. These proportions do not include slaves or immigrants.

I’ll cut this short so I don’t write a book.