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	<title>Comments on: Given a shovel, Americans dig themselves deeper Into debt</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1258133</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1258133</guid>
		<description>With no body at HOME to teach your kids HOW to handle money..
With Little money AT HOME, what is there to Give a kid to TEACH them HOW to use money.
HOW MANY of you know HOW to use money..
do you know the words &quot;Seed capital&quot; or &quot;Seed money&quot;..And HOW to use it.
How many of you REALLY, know how to start a Life, business, with money.
How many of your wages, have increased over 30% in the LAST 8 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With no body at HOME to teach your kids HOW to handle money..<br />
With Little money AT HOME, what is there to Give a kid to TEACH them HOW to use money.<br />
HOW MANY of you know HOW to use money..<br />
do you know the words &#8220;Seed capital&#8221; or &#8220;Seed money&#8221;..And HOW to use it.<br />
How many of you REALLY, know how to start a Life, business, with money.<br />
How many of your wages, have increased over 30% in the LAST 8 years.</p>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1256855</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1256855</guid>
		<description>Am I dreaming or is this real?  TV commercials for up to $2,000 cash, right now! No credit rating reqd!  But the small print reveals an APR in excess of 70%.  Aren&#039;t there usury laws for that?

I need to leave the DVR on and snap some photos of that small print that lasts maybe 1.1 secs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I dreaming or is this real?  TV commercials for up to $2,000 cash, right now! No credit rating reqd!  But the small print reveals an APR in excess of 70%.  Aren&#8217;t there usury laws for that?</p>
<p>I need to leave the DVR on and snap some photos of that small print that lasts maybe 1.1 secs.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1256734</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1256734</guid>
		<description>While these people are complicit there is enough blame to go around. During the period this woman was running up her credit card debt the real interest rate was negative. If you have a negative interest rate how much money do you want to borrow? The savvy answer is: all of it. 

This is exactly the same issue as the securitization of mortgage loans. You are intellectually dishonest if you treat corporate deadbeats and individual deadbeats differently. The woman mentioned in this article is SETF(Small Enough To Fail). 

A large proportion of bankruptcies involve serious medical problems. In any other industrialized country this woman would have received medical attention at minimal personal cost. This medical system would be, per capita, much cheaper to operate than the American one. It would also, very likely, produce a much healthier public. 

Credit card companies specifically target the people most likely not to be able to pay back their debt. There is a name for this: loansharking! 

Corporations are able to roll their short term debt(similar to credit cards) into long term debt(similar to loans) easily under ordinary market conditions. Individuals get hosed by the credit cards and are only offered consolidation after they are ruined.

There is an social problem (excessive materialism)and an institutional problem (total lack of regulation) going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While these people are complicit there is enough blame to go around. During the period this woman was running up her credit card debt the real interest rate was negative. If you have a negative interest rate how much money do you want to borrow? The savvy answer is: all of it. </p>
<p>This is exactly the same issue as the securitization of mortgage loans. You are intellectually dishonest if you treat corporate deadbeats and individual deadbeats differently. The woman mentioned in this article is SETF(Small Enough To Fail). </p>
<p>A large proportion of bankruptcies involve serious medical problems. In any other industrialized country this woman would have received medical attention at minimal personal cost. This medical system would be, per capita, much cheaper to operate than the American one. It would also, very likely, produce a much healthier public. </p>
<p>Credit card companies specifically target the people most likely not to be able to pay back their debt. There is a name for this: loansharking! </p>
<p>Corporations are able to roll their short term debt(similar to credit cards) into long term debt(similar to loans) easily under ordinary market conditions. Individuals get hosed by the credit cards and are only offered consolidation after they are ruined.</p>
<p>There is an social problem (excessive materialism)and an institutional problem (total lack of regulation) going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1256522</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1256522</guid>
		<description>Here is the problem:

Inflation(Everything is becoming more expensive + Wages and job creation are stagnant) + Easy Credit = Debt * Everyone = Financial Collapse?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the problem:</p>
<p>Inflation(Everything is becoming more expensive + Wages and job creation are stagnant) + Easy Credit = Debt * Everyone = Financial Collapse?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1256193</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1256193</guid>
		<description>I have no sympathy for these people.

Blaming credit card companies for outspending your income and running your life into the ground is the same as blaming a drug dealer for selling.

Ultimately, its YOUR choice to either be a cost-conscious consumer who lives within their means or a hyperconsumer (like this lady here) who spends every penny they have, and then takes out lines of credit to perpetuate the myth that they are &#039;successful&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no sympathy for these people.</p>
<p>Blaming credit card companies for outspending your income and running your life into the ground is the same as blaming a drug dealer for selling.</p>
<p>Ultimately, its YOUR choice to either be a cost-conscious consumer who lives within their means or a hyperconsumer (like this lady here) who spends every penny they have, and then takes out lines of credit to perpetuate the myth that they are &#8216;successful&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1256138</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1256138</guid>
		<description>I get that we are a nation in debt. They run stories about it ALL the time. But what are we going to do? 

Less talk about debt people and more action on getting out of it, regardless of who is at fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get that we are a nation in debt. They run stories about it ALL the time. But what are we going to do? </p>
<p>Less talk about debt people and more action on getting out of it, regardless of who is at fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Olo Baggins of Bywater</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-1255880</link>
		<dc:creator>Olo Baggins of Bywater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255880</guid>
		<description>#20...&lt;i&gt;punished?&lt;/i&gt; You make me laugh. ;) They just bought better bankruptcy laws that prevent them from losing when debtors default. This industry has congress, and for that matter most of the US buying public, by the short hairs. 

One thing we need is laws or consumer loan regulations that prohibit minimum payments less than 5%, or maybe higher for unsecured credit debt. The shift from 5% to 2% minimums allowed VISA and Mastercard to earn billions, and was also the beginning of this spiral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20&#8230;<i>punished?</i> You make me laugh. <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  They just bought better bankruptcy laws that prevent them from losing when debtors default. This industry has congress, and for that matter most of the US buying public, by the short hairs. </p>
<p>One thing we need is laws or consumer loan regulations that prohibit minimum payments less than 5%, or maybe higher for unsecured credit debt. The shift from 5% to 2% minimums allowed VISA and Mastercard to earn billions, and was also the beginning of this spiral.</p>
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		<title>By: admfubar</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255687</link>
		<dc:creator>admfubar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255687</guid>
		<description>i wann know... when are the lenders in debacle gonna get punished?? how can the leaders of these institutions get away with this??? how can someone pulling in millions in salary drive an entire economy into a depression??? (make no mistake we are in a depression, we are bailing out banks) hell i could have done just as good of a job as these imbecills, and i would have charged way less for my pay... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wann know&#8230; when are the lenders in debacle gonna get punished?? how can the leaders of these institutions get away with this??? how can someone pulling in millions in salary drive an entire economy into a depression??? (make no mistake we are in a depression, we are bailing out banks) hell i could have done just as good of a job as these imbecills, and i would have charged way less for my pay&#8230; <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: OvenMaster</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255551</link>
		<dc:creator>OvenMaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255551</guid>
		<description>God sakes, are ALL these people digging themselves into credit graves so lazy that they truly don&#039;t read what they&#039;re about to sign??  And then they have the gall to blame banks, mortgage companies, and credit card issuers?

I don&#039;t care if it&#039;s a rental agreement at U-Haul, or a second mortgage, or a credit card. If you don&#039;t read what&#039;s put in front of you before you sign it, you deserve whatever you get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God sakes, are ALL these people digging themselves into credit graves so lazy that they truly don&#8217;t read what they&#8217;re about to sign??  And then they have the gall to blame banks, mortgage companies, and credit card issuers?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care if it&#8217;s a rental agreement at U-Haul, or a second mortgage, or a credit card. If you don&#8217;t read what&#8217;s put in front of you before you sign it, you deserve whatever you get.</p>
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		<title>By: ikelleigh</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255451</link>
		<dc:creator>ikelleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255451</guid>
		<description>There are compulsory gamblers, and there are compulsory spenders. I feel no sympathy for either. You want to &quot;look&quot; rich, then take responsibility and stop blaming the government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are compulsory gamblers, and there are compulsory spenders. I feel no sympathy for either. You want to &#8220;look&#8221; rich, then take responsibility and stop blaming the government.</p>
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		<title>By: The Monster's Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255411</link>
		<dc:creator>The Monster's Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255411</guid>
		<description>Now let me get this straight.  You can&#039;t borrow your way out of debt?  Damn.  My financial planner at Citi Corp. told me that&#039;s how the big boys do it.  Shit, I&#039;m dropping them and going over to the fellahs over at Chase to help me get outta this hell hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now let me get this straight.  You can&#8217;t borrow your way out of debt?  Damn.  My financial planner at Citi Corp. told me that&#8217;s how the big boys do it.  Shit, I&#8217;m dropping them and going over to the fellahs over at Chase to help me get outta this hell hole.</p>
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		<title>By: RASTERMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255369</link>
		<dc:creator>RASTERMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255369</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a question that most people are weak, no matter what walk of life, what country you&#039;re from, or even what century it is. 

Lending institutions are in it for a profit and have been since their inception. They are happy to prey on human weakness and will push it to the limit any way they can, every time.

This lady and millions of others have a problem often exaserbated by poor judgement, a series of bad choices and more often than not, bad luck. They need help, not ridicule.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a stretch to believe that people tend to lie more about money than any other aspect of their lives... often even lying to themselves.

Debt is a house of cards. Avoid it if you can at all costs.

Needs versus wants, tempered by reality! It&#039;s always a dilemma!

Cheers!

---RASTER</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a question that most people are weak, no matter what walk of life, what country you&#8217;re from, or even what century it is. </p>
<p>Lending institutions are in it for a profit and have been since their inception. They are happy to prey on human weakness and will push it to the limit any way they can, every time.</p>
<p>This lady and millions of others have a problem often exaserbated by poor judgement, a series of bad choices and more often than not, bad luck. They need help, not ridicule.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a stretch to believe that people tend to lie more about money than any other aspect of their lives&#8230; often even lying to themselves.</p>
<p>Debt is a house of cards. Avoid it if you can at all costs.</p>
<p>Needs versus wants, tempered by reality! It&#8217;s always a dilemma!</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>&#8212;RASTER</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Mustard</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255362</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Mustard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255362</guid>
		<description>#11 - Outlaw

&gt;&gt;I have adopted my grandpas idea of “if you can’t 
&gt;&gt;pay cash you don’t need it.”

That works, unless it&#039;s a heart transplant or cancer treatment.  Then maybe, even if you can&#039;t pay cash, you DO need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11 &#8211; Outlaw</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;I have adopted my grandpas idea of “if you can’t<br />
&gt;&gt;pay cash you don’t need it.”</p>
<p>That works, unless it&#8217;s a heart transplant or cancer treatment.  Then maybe, even if you can&#8217;t pay cash, you DO need it.</p>
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		<title>By: jescott418</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255353</link>
		<dc:creator>jescott418</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255353</guid>
		<description>If it wasn&#039;t for credit we would have no economy to speak of. If you asked someone if they would have bought that big screen tv if they had to pay cash. Most would reply that they could not afford it if they had to do that. I think many consumer&#039;s missed how credit cards work. In fact credit companies should be forced to look at income and the ability to pay back the loan in a reasonable time such as 5 years. We need to be educating kids in school better about the financial responsibilities.We are raising kids that rely on debt to live!! The big problem is we think this is OK??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it wasn&#8217;t for credit we would have no economy to speak of. If you asked someone if they would have bought that big screen tv if they had to pay cash. Most would reply that they could not afford it if they had to do that. I think many consumer&#8217;s missed how credit cards work. In fact credit companies should be forced to look at income and the ability to pay back the loan in a reasonable time such as 5 years. We need to be educating kids in school better about the financial responsibilities.We are raising kids that rely on debt to live!! The big problem is we think this is OK??</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Mustard</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/07/21/given-a-shovel-americans-dig-themselves-deeper-into-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1255352</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Mustard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=19239#comment-1255352</guid>
		<description>#12 - Ketchy

&gt;&gt;Do you have a gallon of Mazola and a drop cloth? 

Now that was tasteless.  

At least you could have suggested using mayonnaise.  We condiments have to stick together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12 &#8211; Ketchy</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;Do you have a gallon of Mazola and a drop cloth? </p>
<p>Now that was tasteless.  </p>
<p>At least you could have suggested using mayonnaise.  We condiments have to stick together.</p>
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