READER CHALLENGE: Why exactly DOES the Russia-Georgia conflict matter to the West?

Published on August 11th, 2008

Analysis: why the Russia-Georgia conflict matters to the West – Times Online — My friends in the UK are baffled by the fact that this story is not being pounded much by the USA media. Are we in bed with the Russians on this deal? Or what? I’d like to see someone come up with a definitive and believable rationale for this conflict. Any takers? No knee-jerk crap, please.

America and Britain are closely involved in providing military assistance to the Georgians in the form of arms and training. The support is aimed at encouraging the rise of Georgia as an independent, sovereign state.

But the help is also partly a means of protecting the oil pipeline across Georgia that carries crude from the Caspian to the Black Sea, the only export route that bypasses Russia’s stranglehold on energy exports from the region.

If Georgia succeeds in reimposing its sovereignty over South Ossetia in the face of Russian opposition, it will be a huge setback to Moscow’s influence in the region and embolden other former Soviet republics, such as Ukraine and Azerbaijan.

Yes, “it’s all about the oil” is one credible explanation.

79 users responded in " READER CHALLENGE: Why exactly DOES the Russia-Georgia conflict matter to the West? "

Subscribe to this post comment rss or trackback url

# 1 Fedup said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Of course it’s about oil as it should be. The wacky left in this country had rather see thousands die in a war over oil than allow this country it’s own vast oil reserves. The Russians are going to take control of the pipeline and thus the vast oil reserves of the east. This country needs oil to survive and we will end up fighting for it!. The crazy liberals just don’t care. Wind and solar power are not even close to being able to provide for the energy needs of this country and never will. Oil, coal, and natural gas are the cheapest forms of energy with the smallest foot print. The energy produced from a 3 square mile refinery complex would require over 300 square miles of land for the same energy from a wind farm! The smartest move is to combine conservation with renewed drilling and put our money into technologies that mitigate the effects of fossil fuels instead of living in this drug induced fantasy of “never using oil”.
http://www.ncpa.org/studies/renew/renew2e.html

# 2 Mat said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

maybe this is the big happening that makes shure that mccain becomes president.
the russians conquer the rest of georgia and tries to get to its old size and influence over the former sowjet territories.
this act of violation against the so called free, democratic and west- loving countries causes rage and hate against russia so we (us, gb, frz and gmny) fight back. tanks will head to the new sowjet union and the world is once again at the edge of a third world war. mccain becomes president and we are all happy and distracted again.

how does that sound??

# 3 Rick said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

I think any sort of thoughtful (if that is possible) conclusion that “this doesn’t matter to the west” (or shouldn’t) has to come from the same place that any isolationism comes from. I just can’t see how it doesn’t matter to the west unless you are pre-disposed to thinking that nothing “out there” matters to us. How you get there is the part that mystifies me…yet, I know people who think that.

# 4 bobbo said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Well, I’ll bite. The posted article itself says that Georgia gaining complete control over its territory would be a blow to Russia and encourage the Ukraine et al to seek complete freedom from Russia. So, if keeping Russia weak is a goal of the USA, helping Georgia would be consistent with that goal.

Now, if that were true, why aren’t we helping Tibet secure its much more valid claim to independence? And we are back to oil. I don’t think “oil” makes any sense at all, but that doesn’t mean thats not what it is?

# 5 Brian said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Oil. Major pipeline in Georgia. Any tension in oil regions can drive prices.

# 6 Paddy-O said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

I don’t know if I can come up with a definitive reason. Based on Russia’s recent past behavior (Ukraine, Schröder being bought by Gazprom and pushing to end Germany’s nuc power plants) I would give great weight to the energy supply argument.

Economic warfare and leverage can be more effective in controlling multiple foreign gov’t policies than military saber rattling. And, more economically rewarding…

# 7 fedup said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

I also think that this is the democrats nightmare come true. Obama is finished. This will remind everyone that the world is a very dangerous place and once the “Ruskies” have taken the country and pipeline (Putin says that Russia will take the incident “to it’s logical end”) speculators will drive the up the price of oil and Obama and his plans to raise taxes (remember his reply to the increase of gas prices was that he would have like to have seen the increases be more gradual!! and that by just adding a few pounds of air to our tires it will equal Billions of gallons of oil) will be well remembered by voters in the privacy of the voting booth. Hello President McCain

# 8 Proud Alien said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Let’s see:

1) The Osetians wanted to split from Georgia. They held referendums, elections, etc. and used all legal and democratic means to declare their independence.

2) A truce was in place for over a decade. The Russians were an official peace-keeping force keeping things in check.

3) Georgia attacked the de-facto independent territory and killed a number of Russian citizens.

4) Russia retaliated to protect the civilians and its troops that were attacked.

5) And it’s all Russians fault????

Questions for resident brainiacs:

1) Why it is OK for Albanians in Kosovo to split and it is not OK for other nations to follow a similar path?

2) Why it is OK for the US to protect its interests around the globe, but it is not OK for other nations to do the same?

3) Why it is ALWAYS Russians’ fault???

# 9 fishtoprecords said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

While the US should be supporting Georgia a lot more, its not gonna happen. We need Putin’s support on Iran and Iraq and Turkey. And we need Russian oil. So we can’t do anything real.

The US media is not covering it because they would much rather cover the Olymipics or Paris Hilton.

# 10 edwinrogers said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Russian strategy, paranoid and xenophobic, has always been to create buffer zones between it and opportunistic neighbors. This is mere strategy, not a resource grab.

# 11 Bubb said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

I do not see as we have a leg to stand on in this, after our invasion of a sovereign nation that posed no risk to us ( Iraq) and our support of Israels invasion of Lebanon and subsequent cluster bombing of non military targets. Our moral and legal high ground was washed out to sea.IMO.

# 12 moss said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

#9 – way too rational and too much accurate history. Do you expect the eedgit vote (see #1, #8) to pay attention to precedent or even consider answering difficult questions (see your own question #1)?

# 13 LDA said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

The Georgian government is a proxy NATO terrorist group (much like Iraq was when it attacked Iran). The best explanation I have heard (apart from oil) is that it was to test the Russian military response capabilities.

The Russians, whom I do not necessarily believe, reported some of the attackers were black (I do not think there are many black Georgians).

If you really want to know ask former Al-Qaeda commander Zbigniew Brzezinski.

# 14 Stars & Bars said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Looks like we are in heap big trouble.

“Did the U.S. Prep Georgia for War with Russia?”
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/did-us-military.html

US hampering Russian peace efforts – Putin
http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28824

Israel and the US behind the Georgian aggression?
http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=46326&s2=11

War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA
http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/09-08-2008/106046-russia_georgia-0

McCain warns Russians of “severe, long-term negative consequences”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080811/pl_politico/19061_1

# 15 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

This is a big deal. Ballistic missiles, naval blockade, strategic bombers, armor, and ground troops against a European country. Russia is asserting it’s dominance over the region.

They are testing Europe and the US to see how they’ll respond. NATO should be plenty worried. If no one stands up to them on this then the Ukraine should be more worried than anyone.

Georgia is huge ally of the US, even sending troops to Iraq. Putin went back to Russia to manage this and Bush hung around Beijing watching woman’s volleyball. Bush has no support at home to deal with this due to his lack of credibility, the US military is over extended, and Americans are obsessed with gas prices.

It’s up to the EU now.

# 16 RTaylor said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

History

The USSR was held together with fear. It was so diverse, fear was the only thing that worked. Stalin knew this, even though he took it to extremes. All those iron handed tactics made for a lot of hate. Georgian leaders need to understand that if you play with fire, you can get burned. This message is intended for the rest of the world, not just Georgia. In other words the Kremlin wants the world to know they’re back in business. Another reason NATO needs to think twice about over committing.

# 17 Proud Alien said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

#15: Thanks for the links. Here is one more:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/10/georgia.russia5

# 18 jasmoran66 said, on August 11th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

I’ll concede this is all part of something greater that we can’t as yet comprehend. But what’s interesting to me is that it’s happening during the Olympics.

# 19 Proud Alien said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

#17: Very simplistic view of the history.

# 20 jlm said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

I wonder if cars will run on blood, may end up being less costly than oil

# 21 Paddy-O said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

#16 “It’s up to the EU now.”

In other words, nothing will be done about it.

# 22 Proud Alien said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

For those who really want to dive deep

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/default.cfm

# 23 username said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

If only energy fell from the sky, how much fear and aggression would disappear.

# 24 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

#22 Exactly.

Ironically Condi Rice is supposed to be a Russian policy expert.

# 25 wOw said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

Must be OIL or POLITICS. One of the other, or even both of them.

# 26 Jägermeister said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Russian peacekeeping…

# 27 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

#26 Nothing to do with oil. This is Russia telling it’s neighbors to quit cozying up to the US. Politics? This is pretty frickin’ hard politics.

#19 No coincidence. Putin knew he’d be meeting Bush face-to-face. The Europeans saw Bush hesitate and do nothing.

People are going to look back and say that this is when George Bush really, really screwed up. Iraq is bad, this is worse.

# 28 Self Appointed Genius said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Fedup, how exactly does this doom Obama if the American media already decided to toss it on the backburner?

# 29 doug said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

#28. this is worse than Iraq? how many thousands of American dead and trillions of American dollars is this going to cost?

this is no biggie – the Soviets … er, the Russians … just demonstrating who’s boss in their neighborhood.

oil will go up a tick, but it has been down about 20% from its peak, so this may just slow the decline in prices.

cutting dependence on foreign oil isn’t good enough – a crisis in the Caucuses or Nigeria pushes all oil prices up, no matter where it comes from. the only solution is to end our addiction to petroleum.

this crisis will also demonstrate that, for all its bluster about “this will not stand,” the Bushies are afraid to do anything meaningful.

# 30 soundwash said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

the reason for the american news blackout until today (monday) -i gather, is because we were the ones who helped start/engineer it.. (basically the same black op
crap we pull everywhere else..in the name of securing strategic energy, yada yada)

on top of that, reports are coming in of few dead mercenaries found wearing black with american insignias (perhaps blackwater?)

Georgia attacked s.osset *civilians* and Russia came in to provide support..

of course since we’ve all been brain washed that the russians (actually the soviet union) are ebil communists bent on world rule, its easy to see how nobody questions the accusation that the russians are at fault…

the opening of the olympic games..and the Senator Edwards scandal were perfect covers for this Op.. oh and dont forget to add that nice little murder-then-suicide routine in bejiing to keep all eyes off the real “ball”

i hate to say it, but the whole thing stinks to high hell of some sort of distraction for something bigger in the pipeline.. also, several russian news sites were DDoS’d during the attacks as well.. smells like CIA/MI5/Mosad crap to me.. (and if blackwater is involved, well we know who’s mits are definitely in the cookie jar then..)

(i cant be arsed to provide links to support the above, but will if pressed)

just read the posts… #9 hit on the head…

so its a distraction and a test, imo.

distract what, you say? well..the fact that we are sailing *two more* carrier groups (for a total of four) to the pursian gulf to um, “help” Iran make a decision..

I do believe the russians are supporting iran in a big way, esp with the S-300P/MU zuper duper abm/cruise/aircraft system…

should the insanity that is our government decide to attack iran, we will no doubt start off the festivities with america’s favorite weapon: the TLAM cruise missile for which the upgraded s-300 has a claimed .8-.98 kill ratio and .8-.93 vs aircraft..

creating a little chaos over in georgia might tip the balance in our favor, if the russians cannot resupply the iranians… *shrug*

what i do know, is that our major media is being feeding us a load of crap. which i translate into a false flag Op…and false flag Ops just before a presidential election is *never* a good thing.
-esp with the nut cases running the show this time around.

so, put on a helmet and hang onto your wallet cause there is a naasty storm brewing..there will be spilt oil, sobbing stock traders and blood all over the place soon enough…

you know, this is basically the cuban missile crisis in reverse,
-smothered in blackwater sauce and a side order of trans-baltic pipline. (-to stay, if they have their way)

the end game will probably have the USD collapse to nothing just because we’re pissing off all the wrong people (again) -but i digress.

hey John, want to borrow my tinfoil hat?

[john: I have my own, thanks!]

-s

# 31 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

#30 “this is worse than Iraq?”

If this is mishandled then it means that a new “cold war” will come back and the US is in no shape to deal with it. The fact that Bush, Rice, and Cheney have been caught off guard speaks volumes.

Remember, this is not a bunch of religious zealots, these are Russians who are armed to the teeth.

# 32 JoaoPT said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

#24
Cute!

I can’t wait for NoAgenda this week. Adam is toast man.

# 33 soundwash said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

#24

-lol, so true. -but i bet ya Westinghouse or JP Morgan would still figure a way to “put a meter on it”

-s

# 34 doug said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

#32. this could only be a new cold war if the US decides to make it so.

and there is no reason to make it so – if Soviet control of Georgia was not a threat to the US from 192x-91, why should Russian aggression against Georgia be a threat in 2008?

pipelines? meh. how much oil does the US get from the region? not a lot I would bet. we buy lots of oil from hostile states (Venezuela, forex). business is business.

# 35 Balbas said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

Time Magazine Czar of the Year Vladimir “Dobby” Putin has every right to run herd over his people and purge them like previous Czars have done. Dangerous political ideals such as freedom and the US is too close to Russian assets must be dealt with harshly and …

Britain had their Empire and retired. US needs to theirs retire also.

Kudos to Mr Dvorak who understands this.

# 36 chuck said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

Why is it all about oil?
Since when does the US buy Russian oil?
I thought that was why we invaded Iraq?

In fact, the US gets most of its “foreign” oil from Canada.

Europe gets a lot of oil from Russia, and natural gas too.

Has anyone bothered to look at a map? An oil pipeline going through Georgia (from Russia) will end up in Turkey or Azerbaijan.

Russia has plenty of pipelines with more direct routes to Europe.

# 37 lakelady said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

get out a map and take a look at where this is, and more importantly what resources (including transport of resources) are involved. Like every other war throughout all of history it’s about resources. Period.

# 38 Rick Cain said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Generally speaking, Americans are very ignorant when it comes to world affairs. Their simplistic view of this very complex conflict shows that. Just look at the comments here. The evil russkies don’t want to take away your cheap gasoline, peeps. (if you consider $4.15 a gallon cheap).

What we are seeing is what should have occurred peacefully….artificially created nations which in the past gobbled up ethnic minorities breaking up to form new, independent nations with full autonomy.

The USA had other ideas. Bush is still fighting the cold war (syria, iraq, libya were/are socialist nations) and his Russia policy reflects that. The Neocons want a new cold war since the war on terror is becoming less believable every day.

Russia is protecting sovereign peoples, and Georgia’s Saakashvili is just bush’s personal whore that raises his rear end up every time he needs american money. Russia finally got tired of Bush and delivered a knockout punch to his regional goals there.

# 39 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

#35 The Russians want their empire and world influence back. They are not waiting for the US to give them permission.

# 40 xwing said, on August 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

Sorry, this isn’t about oil. This is about 2 things: 1. Russia trying to regain influence and/or fear and 2. Making sure America’s missile defense system in Europe never happens. Think about it. They take Georgia. They show all these little break-away republics how the U.S. will NOT come to their aid if attacked. They’ve proven it. Then, when the U.S. comes calling to install the system, they take a powder. Russians are great chess players and they know for a fact there is nothing we can do about this. If we press too hard, we could be involved in a conflict with them and NO ONE WANTS THAT. Watch WarGames. You can’t chance a nuclear conflict over Georgia. In fact, they know we won’t chance a nuclear conflict unless we are directly attacked or MAYBE if the U.K., France, or Germany is attacked. They’re just showing this to Europe so that everyone trying to be friends with the U.S. will think twice. It will work, unfortunately. You gotta hand it to ‘em, they are smart. We aren’t dealing with a 3rd world country here.

# 41 QB said, on August 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

Rick Cain, nicely put. One explanation (to JCD’s question at the top) is that the Bush administration just got smacked up the side of the head by Putin and Co. without even realizing it. Pretty damn embarrassing.

# 42 jasmoran66 said, on August 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

I’ve been reading about this on a myriad of news sites and I think I’ve figured out what this is all about now- it’s time for me to finally meet a Russian beauty! At least the banner ads seem to think so…

# 43 chris said, on August 11th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

Part of it is the pipeline terminal. That has been covered already.

Today the a Russian gov’t guy claimed that Georgia was cleansing ethnically. This is because when the US got involved in Yugoslavia we chose sides against the Serbs, who worked for the Russians.

In that conflict, and in that part of the world, and generally: the real issue is those with guns vs. those without guns. In Yugoslavia the gangs were working together to relieve the unarmed populace of their life savings.

Since we took sides there Russia is taking sides here. This has the potential to remake the region into a new state-sponsorship gameboard, al a Africa during the cold war. Look at Georgia, and its breakaways; Moldova and its breakaways; remnants of Yugoslavia and their breakaways; Turkey and its possible breakaways; those nutty Albanians; the Armenians or Azeris.

This area around the Caspian and Black Seas is,IMNHO, the region most likely to produce problems in the near future.

# 44 jim said, on August 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

#9
Spot on.
Russia warned this from the very beginning when forces began to build on the border. It quite clear that she would defend her citizens in Ossetia. Saakashvili was an idiot in launching the offensive, and his methods were extremely underhanded when hours previously he had declared ceasefire. I don’t know what he was playing at – did he think Medvedev would waver with Putin at Beijing? Was he counting on NATO support? Saakashvili’s actions were the height of stupidity.

# 45 Lou Minatti said, on August 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

“the reason for the american news blackout until today (monday)”

WTF are you talking about? This has been big news since Friday. Paranoid much?

# 46 doug said, on August 11th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

#40. they can try. Russia is basically an overgrown petro-state. Venezuela with an aging nuclear arsenal. their ambitions to dominate the states of the former USSR pose no real threat to the US or the West, since the Russians depend upon oil sales to finance their “greatness.”

If the West decides to make a concerted effort to break our dependence upon oil, and we can drive the prices back down, you will see a return to the Russia of the Yeltsin years – helpless.

And I can’t feel much sympathy for Europe’s dependence upon Russian pipelines or others vulnerable to the Putin squeeze. the US has been warning them about that since the 80s, when they decided to start buying natural gas from the USSR.

# 47 Jim said, on August 11th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

#47
Ya and if Russia decides to sell all it’s US dollar-backed assets (they hold billions in Fannie Mae mortgaged backed bonds) and decide to only accept rubles and Euros in future sales of oil and nature gas, the U.S. will be helpless. How did you think Bush is paying for the Iraq war.

# 48 Martinko77 said, on August 11th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Dear John,

this conflict is not about oil. It is payback for Kosovo. When once Kosovo was part of the Serbia started its separation process, Bill Clinton sent US Air Force with NATO marks in order to protect Kosovo’s civilians from Serbian’s atrocities. Few months back Condi Rice and US supported its announcement of independence from Serbia and yet some of the EU countries still do not recognize Kosovo. Now we have exactly same situation in Ossetia and Abchazia, where Russia supports separatists and rest of the world does not. Georgia just acts to protects its sovereign borders and integrity where Russia acts exactly as US did in Kosovo in 1999. We’re getting pay back and pretty bad one since Georgia supported US in Iraq and let US use its military bases.
What we can do? Nothing, just bitch about that because everything else will cause open military confrontation with Russia.
What will Russia do? Everything they can to get rid of current government and deploy their own puppet government in order to have a greater access to Black sea and control more of the region.
Considering overall situation we are getting f.cked in our behind pretty good and with all the honesty we underestimated Vladimir Putin as good chess player. Oil, oil pipelines, etc. is just a by-product of this operation, just a sweet cherry on top of the very good cake for Russians. Who looks like a fool now, dear Condi?

# 49 The Pirate said, on August 11th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Has anyone been to google maps (not earth) and noticed that all the road info for Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan is ‘missing’?

# 50 green said, on August 11th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

Anyone play out this conflict in a tom clancy game about 7 years ago…?

# 51 Manny Barilow said, on August 11th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Not long ago Putin ‘admitted’ that Russia is traditionally not a society of liberal values like Western countries. It’s almost as if he were saying, “Look, we’re just not as civilized as you guys. Get used to it.”

One would hope, though, that he’s smart enough to understand that owning resources does not necessarily lead to coercive influence over other cultures (as the Saudis learned back in 1973).

Blowback.

# 52 sinn fein said, on August 11th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

President Bush has “warned” Putin/Russia…this can’t be good or, end well.

# 53 Traaxx said, on August 11th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

We’re helping the Muslims in this case because our government is so pro-Muslim. Our government promotes Islam in our schools here in the US and over seas, it’s easy to see that the elites intend for Islam to become the world religion.

Be promoting Georgia independence it should make it easier for a Pan-Islamic country to arise and bring about the movement of our world government to the middle east. Already they are building and buying their mansions and retreats there.

How many years do you think the US has for any independence? Most of the world push for Globalism comes from the US Eastern Elites of the North, they same people pushing the North American Union. Doubt this, doubt the NAU then you aren’t reading what the elites freely publish.

# 54 Lou Minatti said, on August 11th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

“Ya and if Russia decides to sell all it’s (sic) US dollar-backed assets (they hold billions in Fannie Mae mortgaged backed bonds) and decide to only accept rubles and Euros in future sales of oil”

What’s the Euro been doing lately? And the Dollar? Do you have any clue?

The sweet nectar of paranoia is washing down the throats of the leftards.

Tell us, Slick. If the petro-thugs like Putin decide to “teach us a lesson,” what do you think will happen to their investments?

# 55 doug said, on August 11th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

#48. creditors cannot manipulate debtors on that scale. the Russians have a fire sale on US bonds, they have to sell at a discount, they will lose their shirts.

and revaluing oil in Euros causes market upheaval and nobody wins, plus that gives Brussels power that the Russians would rather they not have.

# 56 David said, on August 11th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

The sovereign nation of Ossetia is invaded by an aggressor neighbor, Russia comes to their aid, and then somehow they’re the bad guys? It’s as if we’ve sunken back into Cold War thinking where Russia is always the enemy, no matter what.

QB, I don’t think you even understand the conflict. The Georgians launched this attack, not the Russians. How could Russia have planned for this to take place during the Olympics?

# 57 B. Dog said, on August 11th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

#9 Proud Alien — You got it right. It’s that straightforward.

# 58 Thomas said, on August 11th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

While I”m sure that oil has something to do with this situation, it is clearly not the only favor. This is about breaking or reestablishing Russian hegemony in the region. We’ve managed to wrest from Russia most of what they took during World War II and if Georgia becomes a free state, Russian control over the region will be crippled. In addition, I’m sure the Russians were well aware of Georgia’s desire to be part of NATO. Putnam’s only window to trounce Georgia was now.

#57
That logic works only if Russia defends Ossetia and nothing more. However it would appear that they are trying to do more than simply defend an attacked nation. They are trying to take Georgia.

# 59 eddie said, on August 11th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Putin has givin his buddy George the perfect storm to blow in a repug victory. The Progressives been slicked again.

# 60 Mistyrain said, on August 12th, 2008 at 12:11 am

Very it is sorry that many of you became the hostages of the real misinformation, or as she is named Informative war. From 1992 ossetics lived quietly, while the sale president of Georgia – Michael Saakashvili did not come to power. He, only marionette in this political game. Our, Russians experience the enormous loss of because, that more than 2000 ossetic were killed: little children, women… Defenceless peaceful people. Sense to militate Russia with Georgia there is no! We are a rich country. For us all is! War can arise up between Russia and USA, but while she only informative. But, does the real need us? Really do not you notice falsification of pictures in a press, in the Internet? To protect people, instead of to finish off! Large sin – to approve murders of peaceful citizens. From you do the flock of sheep! Think the head!

# 61 Neal at IntoYourHead.com said, on August 12th, 2008 at 12:20 am

Short answer. People suffering.

# 62 brian t said, on August 12th, 2008 at 4:53 am

#61: OK! I think the head, but I am not going to do a flock of sheep!

The Times article is now 4 days old, but it pretty much predicted what would happen if Georgia took military action against Ossetia. Now the comments are full of Russians repeating the reports of Georgian atrocities against Ossetian civilians that were used to justify the Russian invasion.

Questions:
– did Georgian forces attack Ossetian and/or Abkhazian civilians?
– if it did, has the Western media ignored it?

This is important to clear up because the Russian media is equating their actions with NATO actions in Kosovo. If Georgia was the aggressor, they would have a point. Right now, however, I get the impression that we are not getting the whole story, from the media in any country.

# 63 Constantine said, on August 12th, 2008 at 5:19 am

I totally agree with # 49 Martinko77.

It seems to me that the US Government (and GWB in particular) was caught with it’s pants down by the Russians.

Also, Condoleezza Rice is supposed to be the Russian policy expert. She is the person that GWB ought to immediately send to Moscow in order to show his displeasure with their actions. And what does he do? He sends a _MID-LEVEL_ State Department official, Matt Bryza, to the region to back up mediation efforts which are being led by Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner of France.

The handling of this sorry affair by the State Department makes Condoleezza Rice look helpless and powerless.

The US has ignored diplomacy in favour of big guns for a number of years now. This has been proven to be counter productive.

I recommend that you read Nicholas D. Kristof’s “Make diplomacy, not war” opinion piece at the International Herald Tribune http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/10/opinion/edkristof.php

# 64 MikeN said, on August 12th, 2008 at 6:35 am

Russia has designs on a new empire, and the current leader is doing things very cleverly, baiting Georgia into a mistake.

Why should this matter for the West? Only because what happens here could dampen Russian enthusiasm for expansion, or it could cause it to keep going, until it goes after the NATO members like Lithuania, or Ukraine.

# 65 QB said, on August 12th, 2008 at 6:48 am

I love reading all the “who attacked who first” comments focused on the disputed Georgian provinces. Look at the big picture.

- The US, with NATO, have been humiliating the Russians for a few years now
- In one week Russia is now the dominant power in Eurasia again
- The Europeans now know the US (and NATO) can’t handle the Russians
- Sarkozy is leading the response not Bush – and in reality Putin is calling the shots, he’s not even meeting Sarkozy
- The Russians have effective control over Georgia without having to occupy it
- The US media really didn’t care and was more interested in John Edwards and the democratic in-fighting

Overall, the US and NATO went down several notches and Russia went up. Putin made Bush and the US administration look like uncomprehending idiots face-to-face, and that wasn’t lost on anyone, especially the Chinese. Obama (who I like better) looked stunned.

This was not a knee jerk reaction by Putin and the Russians. These guys plan a lot and when the circumstances are right they pull the trigger. Reading comments above it’s obvious that many here underestimate the Russians (e.g. Venezuela with oil). They are not wholly evil or good, but they are Russian.

Translation? Americans see everything in black and white. Russians see everything in gray. It wasn’t a total victory or defeat but momentum has shifted completely.

# 66 Mr. Fusion said, on August 12th, 2008 at 7:19 am

First, a few facts.

Georgia separated from the USSR in 1989. Since South Ossetia was already part of Georgia, it became part of the new sovereign country of Georgia.

Georgia declared that Georgian was the official language. This was mainly to replace Russian influence and ethnicity, but also to reduce the number of smaller tribes so prevalent in the Caucasus.

The region of South Ossetia ask the Georgian Legislature to give their region more autonomy. Instead the Legislature banned all regional parties. This was interpreted as a deliberate attempt to remove all Ossetian nationalism.

Consequently, South Ossetia declared themselves independent from Georgia and under Russian control. They boycotted Georgian elections. In turn, Georgia did not recognize the break away region as a State or as pert of Russia. Russia did not recognize S. Ossetia as independent or a member of their Russian Federation either. Georgia declared a December 1990 election null because the vote was only allowed to Ossetians and not Georgians as well in the area.

The result was ethnic violence broke out and both sides lost many civilians before order was restored. Up to 150,000 Ossetians and Georgians fled the area, most have not returned. It was only Russian blustering that halted the violence. A joint peace keeping force was established consisting of both Georgians and Ossetians along with Russians. Some areas were under Georgian control and some left under Ossetian control.

Jump ahead 12 years to about 2004. Smuggling has become a real problem. Other violence, including kidnappings, bombings and armed robbery against Georgian civilians increased. In an effort to protect its sovereignty, Georgia increased their military presence in the area and tried to put down the violence. Russian and Ossetia peace keepers resisted the Georgian efforts.

Georgia also became worried about the increasing Russian economic and military influence in the area. The EU was asked by Georgia for some troops to monitor the ceasefire and Ossetian aggression. The EU declined.

NOTE: This Russian aggression was witnessed by Senator Dick Luger (R IN), at the time Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He and fellow Senator Barrak Obama (D IL) were held incommunicado in Russia for several hours during this fact finding trip even though they possessed Diplomatic visas allowing their free travel. Lugar’s complaint’s to the State Department were not answered.

In order to curry favor and possibly American and NATO support, Georgia contributed troops to the Iraq invasion. They also applied for EU and NATO membership as a counterbalance to Russian aggression and dominance.

In the mean time Russia repeatedly violated Georgian airspace and occasionally sent patrols deep inside Georgia proper. Ossetian violence against Georgians still living in S. Ossetia worsened. Finally, Georgia invaded its own territory to protect its citizens.

And here we are today.

So while Georgia did not act the best towards the Ossetians, they did not attempt any ethnic cleansing either. Ossetians, backed by the Russians, have been the aggressors in the conflict.

No country to date has recognized South Ossetia as an independent country and all still recognize it as part of Georgia. BUT, S. Ossetia really wanted to re-join the Russian Federation as an autonomous state.

# 67 MikeN said, on August 12th, 2008 at 7:27 am

Another reason why this matters to the West is it highlights Barack Obama’s inexperience to the whole world He calls for a Security Council Resolution. So we go from George Bush to a guy who doesn’t even know that Russia has a veto at the UN.

# 68 QB said, on August 12th, 2008 at 7:35 am

MikeN, are you talking about the Bill Richardson interview? I agree, that was pathetic. Meanwhile, the commodity and forex traders are tallying up the score.

# 69 GregAllen said, on August 12th, 2008 at 7:43 am

Answer:

1) Georgia is close to stuff we care about, like Iraq
2) Oil and oil pipelines
3) War hurts everybody

Still, Bush will only much this up, if he tries to get involved.

# 70 GregAllen said, on August 12th, 2008 at 7:45 am

>> MikeN
>> Another reason why this matters to the West is it highlights Barack Obama’s inexperience to the whole world

For sure, Barak could tell you a long list of important facts about Georgia and McCain would confuse it was the state.

# 71 Mr. Fusion said, on August 12th, 2008 at 8:06 am

#68, Lyin’ Mike,

What??? You don’t care about McCain peach supply being cut off???

# 72 John C Dvorak said, on August 12th, 2008 at 8:40 am

Mr. Fusion, nice summary.

# 73 soundwash said, on August 12th, 2008 at 9:31 am

#46

“the reason for the american news blackout until today (monday)”

WTF are you talking about? This has been big news since Friday. Paranoid much?”

BTW.. i’m in NYC -friday the 9th i had bought the ny post and the daily news (times was sold out)

and there was no mention anywhere in either paper about any attacks regarding this event.

as i said above all they cared about was sex scandal and some football legend.

on the 12pm and 6pm Ch7 news (ABC)
nothing was mentioned either. -and this is NYC on top of it..

sure it was all over the net and on cable news. but if you were regular joe getting your news from rabbit ears, not a peep.

we are known as a very introverted country to the rest of the world when it comes to world news and politics. on top of that, all major news outlets in this country are owned by just 5, maybe six corporations..

look, any real or world news we get is carefully crafted and scripted to serve higher powers, -not to mention ratings.

we as a people by and large have been dumb downed and programmed to be hyper consumers and good little lemmings..

when it comes to world news,if you want to get to the truth you had best go outside our mainstream media and look at a few sources before you form an opinion of your own..

on this event.. try

http://www.russiatoday.com/en

or even better give this russian sourced news sight to hear from the “other” side:

http://en.rian.ru/

–

“Russia points to media bias in coverage of S.Ossetia conflict”

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080810/115936076.html

–

“RIA Novosti hit by cyber-attacks as conflict with Georgia rages”

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080810/115936419.html

–
-and here are some clips RussiaToday’s YouTube feeds in english (for the reading impaired)

“Did mercenaries help Georgia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcv-ynUDYHc”

–

“Russian media suppressed in Georgia”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfHTFGLfwXM&feature=user
–

and i dont hand me our classic
“thats just russian propaganda” line..

we are no better in this regard.

i’m a flag waiving idiot and use
the phrase “why we dont just Nuke’em and get it over with” just as much as the next American.

-however, i’ve learned long ago, that i cant trust our news to tell me the truth (or whole picture) about anything related to world events..

we’ve been fed some of the very finest candycoated bull**** for decades..

-s

# 74 John C Dvorak said, on August 12th, 2008 at 10:50 am

Good finds soundwash..thanks

# 75 Cap'nKangaroo said, on August 12th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

here is my take on the US government’s response to this war.

We (prez/state dept/defense dept) will blather and yell around the capitol and in the UN, even call for UN resolutions to stop the fighting (which Russia will veto). A lot of sound and fury to show we are aware of it and it concerns us. But in the end, we will not do anything concrete to inhibit the Russians because we see Georgia as in the Russian sphere-of-influence. We expect the same response from Russia if we were to invade a country in Central America. We may even expect the same from Russia if GWB were to take a swipe at Venezuala before he leaves office.

I found it very interesting that Putin was at the Olympics one minute, then in the middle of Russia’s offensive the next. Either the Russians have made great leaps in the ability to mount an operation from a standing start, or the have been planning just such an operation for a long while.

I would be very interested to know if our satellites picked up on any preparations and if this info was shared with the Georgians, if only to say be carefuland don’t poke the bear. The again, maybe all our intelligence assets are trying to locate Osama bin Laden and couldn’t be tasked to anything else.

# 76 danosb said, on August 12th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Read this by Mark Ames: http://exiledonline.com/georgia-gets-its-war-onmccain-gets-his-brain-plaque/

And then read this by the War Nerd: http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-south-ossetia-the-war-of-my-dreams/

Notice that neither article makes silly references to “US-ally” or “Imperialist” countries.

# 77 Mistyrain said, on August 13th, 2008 at 12:08 am

# 63 brian t

You are right, when talk that you do not get a complete picture about what is going on. In different countries the MASS-MEDIA write variously. Ready to answer Your questions:

1) Georgian forces attacked South Ossetia, fully wiped a city Tskhenvali from the face of earth, with a further plan to attack Abkhaziyu. Today in Russia day of mourning. The name of this Georgian military operation – CLEAN FIELD was also known. How to you this name? Unequivocal, right? It is eventual you on TV will not show. And I cry every day, when see people with reckless ot horror eyes and losing near in one second. Ossetic burned, pressed little children tanks, injured finished off from the burst of machine-gun fire ;

2) The western MASS-MEDIA do not represent the real picture what is going on, because, Dzhorsh Bush finances this lawlessness obviously, teaching Georgian soldiers of technique of military matter of NATO.

Again it will not be shown you and will not write about to, that among the killed and injured soldiers on territory of South Ossetia it was very not enough Georgian, and mainly servicemen from Pribaltiki, from Ukraine, from the USA… was black-skinned soldier even, you must admit that they do not live on territory of Georgia?
Let us be honest, everybody loves the country and Motherland, but read the following without offenses! Does not want the USA (and it is a not secret) to acknowledge that stands a pretty large economic crisis (war in Iraq one what costs only) and distracts ot this situation various methods. Whole 5 clearly unfinished meetings in UNO! It is not simply wanted to hear Russia.
Our country can in a great deal and not rights was at one time, especially in the period of USSR, but we remember wars and losses. Our country – long-suffering, because rich in resources and it dissatisfies many.
With respect to the last events in Ossetia, trust WE PROTECT OSSETIC, But does not ATTACK ON THEM!

# 78 GregAllen said, on August 13th, 2008 at 8:47 am

Who the heck vacations in Crimea? Karl Rove does..

http://tinyurl.com/5zadcc

… ight before a war breaks out that McCain thinks will help his candidacy.

# 79 Phone Detective said, on June 1st, 2009 at 5:23 pm

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

Leave Your Reply Below...

Comment Moderation is Active, so if your comment doesn't
show up immediately, please don't submit it again.

Special Deals 4U

25% off eHarmony subscription with code EHTECH
12-percent discount forever with code TECH
10-percent discount and free month using TECH10
10-percent or 30 dollars off weekly car rental!
Get 10-percent discount on car rental!
Get 10% off rental cars!
Get 10% off Dollar rentals!
Discounts on domain names!