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	<title>Comments on: Government Considering Proposals On Genetically Engineered &#8216;Frankenfood&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1345021</link>
		<dc:creator>eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1345021</guid>
		<description>&quot;Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.&quot;
You are about a decade late. It is here and it aint goin away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.&#8221;<br />
You are about a decade late. It is here and it aint goin away.</p>
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		<title>By: BigBoyBC</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1344315</link>
		<dc:creator>BigBoyBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1344315</guid>
		<description>#27 Ah_Yea,

With some of the posters on this blog, how would we be able to tell?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#27 Ah_Yea,</p>
<p>With some of the posters on this blog, how would we be able to tell?</p>
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		<title>By: Ah_Yea</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343730</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah_Yea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343730</guid>
		<description>Well we could all become Vegetarians, but I don&#039;t want my brain to shrink...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well we could all become Vegetarians, but I don&#8217;t want my brain to shrink&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Montanaguy</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343520</link>
		<dc:creator>Montanaguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343520</guid>
		<description>#13
You don&#039;t think that eating something puts you in close proximity? That&#039;s about as close as it gets.
Let&#039;s suppose that a virus is an agent in mouse liver cells . And some of that mouse DNA gets spliced into a cow. And you eat the cow-mouse. With some viral DNA intertwined with the mouse sequence. Then, in a 1/100,000,000 event, after traversing your liver, that mouse virus DNA mutates and suddenly has an affinity for your DNA. Viruses mutate all the time. That&#039;s a given. Thus, the unintended consequence: suddenly a virus that humans would otherwise never come into contact with has breached the walls. Game over.

Disclaimer: This is an entirely fictional, fabricated account of a remotely possible event that is not currently supported by any studies. It definitely won&#039;t happen...until it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13<br />
You don&#8217;t think that eating something puts you in close proximity? That&#8217;s about as close as it gets.<br />
Let&#8217;s suppose that a virus is an agent in mouse liver cells . And some of that mouse DNA gets spliced into a cow. And you eat the cow-mouse. With some viral DNA intertwined with the mouse sequence. Then, in a 1/100,000,000 event, after traversing your liver, that mouse virus DNA mutates and suddenly has an affinity for your DNA. Viruses mutate all the time. That&#8217;s a given. Thus, the unintended consequence: suddenly a virus that humans would otherwise never come into contact with has breached the walls. Game over.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: This is an entirely fictional, fabricated account of a remotely possible event that is not currently supported by any studies. It definitely won&#8217;t happen&#8230;until it does.</p>
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		<title>By: Ah_Yea</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343513</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah_Yea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343513</guid>
		<description>Yes Fusion, you&#039;ve got a very good point.  Starvation doesn&#039;t qualify as having a choice.  

Although not an immediate problem in much of the world, but a looming problem in other parts, I wonder if providing sufficient protein will be the impetus to acceptance of hybrid animals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Fusion, you&#8217;ve got a very good point.  Starvation doesn&#8217;t qualify as having a choice.  </p>
<p>Although not an immediate problem in much of the world, but a looming problem in other parts, I wonder if providing sufficient protein will be the impetus to acceptance of hybrid animals?</p>
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		<title>By: BigCarbonFoot</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343454</link>
		<dc:creator>BigCarbonFoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343454</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s cheaper so I can save money  a bigger house (or two) and a bigger SUV, then sure I&#039;ll eat it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s cheaper so I can save money  a bigger house (or two) and a bigger SUV, then sure I&#8217;ll eat it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343415</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343415</guid>
		<description>#22, Ah Yea,

I think we are quibbling here, ... but, what the hell, I&#039;m discussing this with an intelligent person. 

&lt;i&gt;Absolutely, at least give us the chance to choose. I bet most of the world will even eat cow-mouse if it means not starving to death. &lt;/i&gt;

I just finished a book not too long ago about Germany in the last few months of WWII. Some people were so hungry they were filling flour with sawdust and even eating grass. Most cases of cannibalism are the difference between starvation and life. So yes, people will eat something they otherwise wouldn&#039;t if they don&#039;t have a choice. Starvation does not qualify as a choice.

And I have neither the time nor inclination to take some remedial biology here. The point earlier was that there was no trials or studies demonstrating virus transmission or susceptibility in GM and cloned foods. The actual production in most cases have been to small to support any studies. In short, we just don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#22, Ah Yea,</p>
<p>I think we are quibbling here, &#8230; but, what the hell, I&#8217;m discussing this with an intelligent person. </p>
<p><i>Absolutely, at least give us the chance to choose. I bet most of the world will even eat cow-mouse if it means not starving to death. </i></p>
<p>I just finished a book not too long ago about Germany in the last few months of WWII. Some people were so hungry they were filling flour with sawdust and even eating grass. Most cases of cannibalism are the difference between starvation and life. So yes, people will eat something they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t if they don&#8217;t have a choice. Starvation does not qualify as a choice.</p>
<p>And I have neither the time nor inclination to take some remedial biology here. The point earlier was that there was no trials or studies demonstrating virus transmission or susceptibility in GM and cloned foods. The actual production in most cases have been to small to support any studies. In short, we just don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Ah_Yea</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343199</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah_Yea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343199</guid>
		<description>#16 The Monster&#039;s Lawyer.

LOL!  Sounds like a marketing plan to me!

Now fusion.

We both agree on your conclusion, &quot;Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.&quot;

Absolutely, at least give us the chance to choose.  I bet most of the world will even eat cow-mouse if it means not starving to death.

Now to the rest.  Since I don&#039;t have time to go into remedial biology here, and since it seems apparent that you need a refresher in the fundamentals of viral transmission, may I recommend starting on these two links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1

Also examine the conditions under which the cross-viral contaminations took place, especially in China and Indonesia.

This will get you started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 The Monster&#8217;s Lawyer.</p>
<p>LOL!  Sounds like a marketing plan to me!</p>
<p>Now fusion.</p>
<p>We both agree on your conclusion, &#8220;Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely, at least give us the chance to choose.  I bet most of the world will even eat cow-mouse if it means not starving to death.</p>
<p>Now to the rest.  Since I don&#8217;t have time to go into remedial biology here, and since it seems apparent that you need a refresher in the fundamentals of viral transmission, may I recommend starting on these two links.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1</a></p>
<p>Also examine the conditions under which the cross-viral contaminations took place, especially in China and Indonesia.</p>
<p>This will get you started.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-2/#comment-1343166</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343166</guid>
		<description>#13, Ah Yea,

Good post, but totally wrong.

&lt;i&gt;But certainly a virus which could infect a cow, a mouse, or a cow-mouse would find it extremely difficult if not impossible to infect a human. &lt;/i&gt;

Can you point out some studies demonstrating this? For example, &lt;i&gt;Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis&lt;/i&gt; is strongly believed to infect people. AIDS is believed to originate in African monkeys. Some forms of influenza are known to coexist in animals.

&lt;i&gt;Viruses jumping to the human population is a direct result of the vector animal being in close proximity to humans. &lt;/i&gt;

Such as the farmer. Who has a family that attend school and shop in town.

&lt;i&gt;Close human proximity in unsanitary conditions is essential. &lt;/i&gt;

Not true. Vectoring has more to do with the proximity of the host and recipient. 

&lt;i&gt;Therefore, the chances of a virus jumping from a genetically modified animal to humans is exactly the same as a virus jumping from a non-modified animal to humans. &lt;/i&gt;

Can you show us any studies of this? How about a study showing that GM animals are less (or more) capable of carrying specie jumping pathogens?

This highlights the difference between faith and trust. Many of those in favor of not labeling GM foods are taking it on faith that they are safe. The studies are all small and generally address other issues than safety. Those wanting GM labeling also have trust that science will prove or disprove that safety.

Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13, Ah Yea,</p>
<p>Good post, but totally wrong.</p>
<p><i>But certainly a virus which could infect a cow, a mouse, or a cow-mouse would find it extremely difficult if not impossible to infect a human. </i></p>
<p>Can you point out some studies demonstrating this? For example, <i>Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis</i> is strongly believed to infect people. AIDS is believed to originate in African monkeys. Some forms of influenza are known to coexist in animals.</p>
<p><i>Viruses jumping to the human population is a direct result of the vector animal being in close proximity to humans. </i></p>
<p>Such as the farmer. Who has a family that attend school and shop in town.</p>
<p><i>Close human proximity in unsanitary conditions is essential. </i></p>
<p>Not true. Vectoring has more to do with the proximity of the host and recipient. </p>
<p><i>Therefore, the chances of a virus jumping from a genetically modified animal to humans is exactly the same as a virus jumping from a non-modified animal to humans. </i></p>
<p>Can you show us any studies of this? How about a study showing that GM animals are less (or more) capable of carrying specie jumping pathogens?</p>
<p>This highlights the difference between faith and trust. Many of those in favor of not labeling GM foods are taking it on faith that they are safe. The studies are all small and generally address other issues than safety. Those wanting GM labeling also have trust that science will prove or disprove that safety.</p>
<p>Regardless, I still want the choice between eating GM and non-GM food.</p>
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		<title>By: The Monster's Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343126</link>
		<dc:creator>The Monster's Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343126</guid>
		<description>#19 Dave - &lt;i&gt;&quot;And where is my damned flying car, personal jet pack and fusion reactor watch that are 25 years over due. Humm?&quot; &lt;/i&gt;  

You didn&#039;t get yours??  We all got ours about 12 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19 Dave &#8211; <i>&#8220;And where is my damned flying car, personal jet pack and fusion reactor watch that are 25 years over due. Humm?&#8221; </i>  </p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t get yours??  We all got ours about 12 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave W</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343120</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343120</guid>
		<description>Well, GM food is far better than GM vehicles...yuk, yuk, yuk. 

More seriously, say some pig DNA gets mixed up with something else and word gets out. Then, the Muslims sue/riot/cut off the oil/drop the Chrysler Building because they think they have been poisoned? Hindu&#039;s and beef? Jews and lobster?

Oh, and #6&quot;This seems to be the very same crowd that wants the human race to regress 200 years, eliminate 4/5 of the human population (themselves not included of course), and live on communist style communes 50’s style.&quot;

I&#039;m all for eliminating 4/5 of the human population, but not the rest of it. Too damned many people on the planet, that should be obvious to anyone, except perhaps Sarah Palin. No need to regress. I adore technology when it is useful. GM food is indeed useful, and I await it with open arms. Ditto irradiated food: less germs. And where is my damned flying car, personal jet pack and fusion reactor watch that are 25 years over due. Humm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, GM food is far better than GM vehicles&#8230;yuk, yuk, yuk. </p>
<p>More seriously, say some pig DNA gets mixed up with something else and word gets out. Then, the Muslims sue/riot/cut off the oil/drop the Chrysler Building because they think they have been poisoned? Hindu&#8217;s and beef? Jews and lobster?</p>
<p>Oh, and #6&#8243;This seems to be the very same crowd that wants the human race to regress 200 years, eliminate 4/5 of the human population (themselves not included of course), and live on communist style communes 50’s style.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for eliminating 4/5 of the human population, but not the rest of it. Too damned many people on the planet, that should be obvious to anyone, except perhaps Sarah Palin. No need to regress. I adore technology when it is useful. GM food is indeed useful, and I await it with open arms. Ditto irradiated food: less germs. And where is my damned flying car, personal jet pack and fusion reactor watch that are 25 years over due. Humm?</p>
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		<title>By: JimD</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343102</link>
		<dc:creator>JimD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343102</guid>
		<description>P.S. to the above:  &quot;I taste DEAD PEOPLE!!!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. to the above:  &#8220;I taste DEAD PEOPLE!!!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JimD</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343100</link>
		<dc:creator>JimD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343100</guid>
		<description>GM on the way to SOYLENT GREEN !!!  Why waste all that PROTIEN ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GM on the way to SOYLENT GREEN !!!  Why waste all that PROTIEN ???</p>
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		<title>By: The Monster's Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343092</link>
		<dc:creator>The Monster's Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343092</guid>
		<description>Cow-Mouse?  Humm? Product names: MickeyMoo, Bovarmint, RatSteak?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cow-Mouse?  Humm? Product names: MickeyMoo, Bovarmint, RatSteak?</p>
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		<title>By: Ah_Yea</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/09/19/government-considering-proposals-on-genetically-engineered-frankenfood/comment-page-1/#comment-1343079</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah_Yea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=24970#comment-1343079</guid>
		<description>It just depends on how good Cow-Mouse taste...

Kinda like chicken McNuggets.  Bite Size!

Anyways, it&#039;s just as probably as a pig virus wiping out all of humanity.  (Swine flu. Nasty but we are still here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just depends on how good Cow-Mouse taste&#8230;</p>
<p>Kinda like chicken McNuggets.  Bite Size!</p>
<p>Anyways, it&#8217;s just as probably as a pig virus wiping out all of humanity.  (Swine flu. Nasty but we are still here).</p>
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