Just another take on tiresome posts on DU, imagine how atheists feel every day in meat space dot real world.

Very well written posts.

#41, Mustard,

It just gets tiresome when such a disproportionate number of posts on dvorak dot org slash blog are of the same old, same old “those nutty Christians” variety.

Maybe, just maybe, with all due respect, we might be on to something.

#44, Rick,

Maybe they were watching Survivor

#38 – Scottie

If the worst they ever do to you is make you look at “In God We Trust” when you open your wallet, you should county yourself lucky.

How about if just 5% of the country’s bills are printed with “There is no god” and say 20% with various sayings from non-Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions? Then the other 75% could be variations on “In we trust”. Would that be OK with you? Just to give a balanced representation of what people in the U.S. actually believe.

If I want to play my silly religious fantasies out in real life, what’s the problem?

It’s not a problem. As I have said, if the religious folks in this country all felt as you do, I’d have no problem with religion, or at least not locally. Unfortunately, it seems to me that you are by far in the minority.

>>Are you really going to claim that 5% of the
>>population as nontheists is persecuting the
>>95% that believe?

Sure! Just look a what’s happened under Dumbya. A minority of the people are exploiting the majority. I thought that was pretty common.

Oh … um … ack.

What were the parents thinking???

LOL. Unlike the Detroit Lions, the Roma Lions always won…

>>However, just as you view my atheism as
>>closed minded and whatever else you think of
>>it, I view your religion as silly.

OK. So we agree to disagree. It just gets tiresome when such a disproportionate number of posts on dvorak dot org slash blog are of the same old, same old “those nutty Christians” variety. If the worst they ever do to you is make you look at “In God We Trust” when you open your wallet, you should county yourself lucky.

>>Besides, why do you feel that the topic is
>>not open for debate in the same way that
>>politics is?

Oh, it’s open for debate. Not a productive debate, to be sure, but debate. In addition, politics changes (or at least there are new players) over time. Christianity and Judaism and Islam haven’t changed much in the past 5 or 6 months (or the last 1000 years, for that matter), and continuing “There is a God” vs. “There is no God” arguments don’t really make much progress.

As you are aware, I am in favor of stem cell research, in keeping religion out of public schools, in maintaining the separation of church and state, in allowing civil rights to same-sex couples, etc. ad infinitum. If I want to play my silly religious fantasies out in real life, what’s the problem?

>>What exactly have I done that you consider
>>to be persecution?

Well, nothing on the order of the Crusades, or some of the Atheist “cleansings”; it’s more a continual meaningless harping on Us True Believers for no reason other than that we believe. And I believe BoBo said that he’d like to make religion illegal, but he’s somewhat of an extremist.

>>Are you really going to claim that 5% of the
>>population as nontheists is persecuting the
>>95% that believe?

Sure! Just look a what’s happened under Dumbya. A minority of the people are exploiting the majority. I thought that was pretty common.

From that paper cited above in my post #39, please note the following from pages 9 through 10.

Horus of Egypt

The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar, with Horus even contributing the name of Jesus Christ. Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos (”I and my Father are one”). The legends of Horus go back thousands of years, and he shares the following in common with Jesus:

● Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth
being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
● He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
● Horus was also baptized by “Anup the Baptizer,” who becomes “John the Baptist.”
● He had 12 disciples.
● He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
● He walked on water.
● Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
● He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
● He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God’s Anointed Son, the Son of Man,
the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word” etc.
● He was “the Fisher,” and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish (”Ichthys”).
● Horus’s personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.”
● Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One,” long before the Christians duplicated the
story.

In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis – the original “Madonna and Child” – and the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, who shares many qualities with Jesus and who existed as a deity long before the Jesus character was formalized. The Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier pagan mystery religions.

OK. I admit I did not do true scholarly research on the subject. Here’s a rather lengthy paper confirming the history of Jesus as Horus among many other previous myths that all got blended together. This is a scholarly paper found using Google Scholar.

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ

When I tried to post two links in one post yesterday, I got flagged. If you want more, feel free to use Google Scholar on your own to avoid any possibility of my bias influencing the search results or let me know that you’re too lazy and I’ll find more.

I’m sure much has been written on the subject.

I will also confess (because confession is good for the soul, or some such nonsense) that I did not read this entire paper. It is quite lengthy and is about a subject I care about only tangentially. I did skim it’s major points though, which do back up the video quite a bit.

You are probably right about the sun/son thing being a red herring. But, let’s not throw out perfectly good bath water just ’cause there’s a dirty baby in it.

Ah, Scottie. Amazing how just about everybody in the world can be wrong, and you can be right, isn’t it?

The fact that everyone else is wrong doesn’t make me right. I’m not claiming to have all of the answers. I’m just claiming to recognize a bunch of hooey when I see it.

And, aside from your unsubstantiated statements on misanthropicscott dot wordpress dot com, and the YouTube video from “richpartners” I see no evidence to support the idea that Horus was the “Lamb of God”, was crucified, baptized at 30, etc.

I’ve actually seen a number of sites making the comparison. But, you’re right. Perhaps we don’t know much about Horus. Perhaps not that many texts survived from the time. Funny thing though … there’s not a single text from Jesus’ time suggesting that he ever existed either. Maybe the two are identically non-existent. (Earliest texts of the new testament are from about 90 years after the supposed death of the man. None of the historians during the time of Jesus wrote about anyone by the name Yshua or about any particularly controversial crucifixion.)

And even if he was, bfd. Are you such a literalist that can’t accept that there’s a common truth in what just about all of humanity believes?

I can’t accept that just because a couple of billion people (certainly not most of humanity) believe crap that said crap is true. I want data.

Tsk tsk. Why don’t you just allow the billions of us who do believe to live our lives?

For the same reason you rail against the republicans and the meth-and-man-assers and the antii-same-sex-marriagers and the other flakes.

Religion is invasive to my life (read the back of your money, check the 1954 version of the pledge of allegiance, listen to any presidential candidate’s speech, check the state of stem cell research, etc.)

Besides, why do you feel that the topic is not open for debate in the same way that politics is? Is religion so different that we can’t even discuss our differing views? Do you really feel that religion as a topic for debate is quite literally sacrosanct?

Take on the abortion-doctor killers, the meth-and-man-ass hypocrites, the anti-same-sex-marriage flakes all you like. Hey, I’ll be a co-litigant with you and the ACLU on a lawsuit.

I know you will. I have a lot of respect for you for this. However, just as you view my atheism as closed minded and whatever else you think of it, I view your religion as silly. I believe each of us has the right to say that about the other and we can have nice heated debates about it as we usually do.

It mystifies my why you and your fellow believers (or believers in non-belief, if it makes you feel better, but a belief nonetheless) continue to persecute those of us who choose to have our spiritual beliefs in the privacy of our own homes and places of worship.

In what way do I persecute you any more than you persecute me? Are you really going to claim that 5% of the population as nontheists is persecuting the 95% that believe? That seems rather unlikely, no?

Have I tried to physically stop you from going to church?

Have I tried to get “There is no God” printed on our money?

Have I tried to change the words “under God” in the pledge to be “under surveillance”? (Well, that might make sense.)

What exactly have I done that you consider to be persecution?

The kid should have taken the safe route and worn a pointy red elf hat, over-stuffed red waist coat, big black boots and called himself Barak Obama.

Of course, everyone spoke English in those days, didn’t they.

Here’s a though though, in an even older Celtic language, sun is ‘Haul’ and son is ‘mab’. Oops, did I just spoil someone’s party?

My favourite though is the one that says some ancient Egyptian god was born on December 25th like 3 quadrillion years ago…. like they had a December back then too? Top banana.

Great ‘thinking’ there, or maybe someone’s letting YouTube and WikiPedia do their thinking for them.

I believe humans are just naturally inclined to want an explanation for everything. This drove ‘wise men’ to create an explanation.

Since I am extra wise, I usually go to bed comforted in that nature doesn’t owe me an explanation. so there !