Father of Modern Wall Street Ran a Scam for 40 Years

I suspect this is not going to be an isolated case. That if the SEC was actually doing its job, over the last 20 years, there would have been a number of such firms biting the dust. But it all seems to come out now. As a result of the Fed’s long standing practice of keeping the Interest rates low, so people will invest rather than save their money. So with practically everyone dabbling in the market these past few years. What a surprise, these “Ponzi” schemes began to crumble under the load. And none of these practices of Madoff were ever scrutinized by the SEC until now? And only because he basically confessed to the authorities?! Well, I’m so happy the SEC is up to speed, now. Let’s see. First Martha Stewart, and now Madoff. Wow, they’re really racking them in huh? Pitiful! The SEC would make lousy cops.

So.. is he another Ayn Rand worshiper?

5,

“Mother Teresa had a very dark side.”
With a name like pedro, do you think you should comment on others complexions?

7

Why are you so partisan? Just cause Obama H Christ is a Democrat doesn’t mean you have to get all pissy…

#7, ROTFLMAO

#11 – Prometheus

>>Would anyone please explain to me how this
>>is any different from the way that our
>>federal government is run?

They just fritter our money away slowly, a couple of billion at a time.

Madoff, on the other hand, madoff (heh) with a select few individuals’ money all at once.

Those poor bastards at the Palm Beach Country Club are grinding their teeth right now, wishing they had been nicer to the bums begging for money on the street. It’s going to be dangerous for them in the homeless shelter now.

Unless, of course, we fucking bail them out too. If they’ve got enough money that they can lose $50,000,000,000.00 in one fell swoop, they’re probably too big to fail, and need to have their losses underwritten by the government.

It’s only the people making $40,000/yr who get mashed into hot-dog purée by the meat grinder of Dumbya’s economy.

a few comments in other posts sent me off into the blackhole of time looking for answers/facts..

-anyway..after curious appointments the december’s executive orders list..i ended up at “The United States Attorney’s Office Northern District of Georgia”

in the news section of the DA’s site.. is listed
3yrs worth of prominent pdf format. -they are all 1-2 page quick reads with the just the “meat” of the charges.

if you scroll thru the list, you will find ALOT of multimillion (and billion) mortage fraud schemes/cases (amongst all sorts of others frauds) -and these are *just cases in northern alabama.*

apparently…we are only seeing the tip of huge mortage iceberg. -alot of these cases were started in 2000/2001 -anyway…gicew’em a quick lookover.

-if anything, there is alot if material for (dark) humour..

DA’s website, news area:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/gan/press/index.html

-s

#6 So you never heard about dark humor, huh?

Well, it may not be on CNN, but it is on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, which is kind of appropriate, don’t you think?

Of course, the Ponzi Pyramid is excatly the way our financial markets have been managed since the Jekyll Island Conference in 1910 (see http://www.frugalfun.com/jekylisland.html).

Of course, mathematically, none of these schemes can last forever, and it is remarkable that the Federal Reserve has been able to exist for so long. The 40 year cycle of the Madoff Investment scam isn’t necessarily all that impressive by its length, only by its size. The $50 billion lost in this scam is more than twice as much as the Bailout Bill for the Automotive industry that failed to pass last night, and dwarfs the amount lost by WorldCom in the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history.

Since the Social Security System is built upon the same kind of Ponzi Pyramid finance structure, how comfortable do you feel now about that part of your retirement plan?

#19 – Paddy-RAMBO

>>There are fools that visit this blog that
>>actually think the meltdown has something to
>>do with who is President.

Hot dang! That Bush is one unlucky son of a bitc. He’s always in the wrong place at the wrong time, when somebody else fucks up something he’s involved in. He was there when they fucked up his military “service”, he was there when they fucked up his driving record, he was there when they fucked up Arbusto Energy (and they then went on to fuck up “Bush Exploration” and Spectrum 7 Energy, and finally Harken Energy), he was there when they fucked up the Texas Rangers, he was there when they fucked up Iraq, and now he’s there when they fucked up the economy.

Gosh. If I didn’t know better, I’d say that boy was born under a bad sign. Good thing somebody else was always to blame.

OMG 3rd weakest story ever
cops show up and say ““We’re here to find out if there’s an innocent explanation,” Agent Theodore Cacioppi told Madoff”
and he confesses…nothing like selling umbrellas when it is raining

Hey,
I lost my last good paying full time job within a year of 9/11. The “recovery” came (along with war) the news full of “economic recovery” but the jobless or in my case low paying part-time jobs. It was a “consumer driven” recovery and financed on cheap credit. Then the speculators drove commodities to crazy levels. Now bust!
I can recomend:
1. rural location.
2. grow a garden & learn home canning.
3. raise grass fed beef.
4. wood heat.
5. learn to fix things.
6. keep interested in current events.

The rich in America are your “royalty.” I heard an Irish comic say that and he followed with: In America you see a rich guy and you say “gee, I wish I were like him.” Here we say: “Lets get him!”

Martha Stewart cheats to get a bit more. Same with that software to football team owner guy last week. Millions aren’t enough.

Corruption is hard to avoid. Whether your temptation is money, power, or piety too many if not most in those environments cannot resist the power of the ring.

What I really don’t get is why the people who “get off” on busting these creeps have so little influence and impact. Course, Bush politicizing the office of Att’s Gen didn’t help.===and to Paddyo==yes there is stupid, lazy, and corrupt aspects to all politicians but Bush/Rove/Cheney have taken it to a new low. Eight years of “you gotta believe” will be hard to repair.

So Wall St is rotten to the core? Is that the message?

um, no

um, yes

I love the part where he said he was paying off investors with money that was not there. For a minute there, I thought he was talking about our federal government and the auto industry.

I completely get your point pumpkin. We have to learn how to survive again, provide for our needs by ourselves and get off the mighty tit. It’s not about cutting yourself off society and ignoring the problems with our system. It’s about becoming humans again, first and foremost.

RE: #5 & #6:

Mother Teresa did indeed have a dark side. – A dark back-side. However, she was plenty pink INside I can tell you. Plus – she looked hot in a thong and had a thing for suffering (if you know what I mean – and I think you do)

34 – Bobbo

>>Every individual should find their own
>>response, recommending any given response to
>>others is solipsist

Sounds to me like you’re the solipsist here, Bobster. Telling the great pumpkin that he can only know his mind, not the mind of others, or what might benefit them. Of course, your epistemology (like your logic) may differ from the common man’s, and maybe sopsism means something different to you.

And if you object to him recommending his lifestyle to others for their adoption, why do you spend so much time and energy berating those with spiritual beliefs, calling them idiots, morans, sheeple, “true believers”, dunderheads, and recommending that they adopt your lifestyle of Atheism?

Hmmm?

I’m sure there’s some logic behind that, right?

#35–Mustard, you got it as usual about half right. Find a single post where I tell anyone what to think. Now, I don’t want to mimic Paddy-O here in rejecting anything that is clearly indicated by what I do post.

Still==most of most religions is idiotic and ridicule in an honest discussion is impossible to avoid. YES, atheism (not agnosticism) is one appropriate response, but so is mysticism/spirituality of a very general non-directive nature, or a general love of mankind, or freedom, or inquiry, or mother earth.

Lots of alternatives to stupid traditional religisosity beside atheism.

Open up your mind Mustard. ((in fairness, if I have ever told someone what to think except by implication, please find that post to be in error of what I meant to say. An error in haste.))

Merry X-mas Mister Mustard and thank you for the invitation to make my own, and your, position more expressly clear.

Ho, Ho, Ho!!!!

Idiots like this are why some people still think Communism is a viable governmental option.

#36 – Thomas

Au contraire. Logic and spirituality are complementary.

#39 – Bobbo

>>Religion is a hodgpodge of self
>>contradicting gibberish that is disprovable
>>or nonsensical on its face.

It’s definitional, as the Loquacious Lexicographer of All Things Logical is wont to say. If you want to define “religion” as being restricted to Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, or Jim & Tammy Faye, then yeah.

There’s more to it than that, but in your blind hatred of anything that smacks of “G-d”, you refuse to acknowledge it, to your detriment.

>>I find comfort in that. I recommend it to
>>any who have an interest in reading. No
>>interest? Grow pumpkins.

Ah, but those who have an interest in further understanding their G-d, on the other hand, they are idiots, morans, sheeple, “true believers”, and dunderheads, and you try your darndest to disabuse them of their pathological fantasies.

Right?

That’s the difference between you and me, Bobbolina (one of the many); I don’t give a flying fuck WHAT you believe, I only object to your nonstop criticism of my audacity not to believe what you believe, and stop believing what I already belive. You, on the other hand, are offended by the very fact of my belief.

#42–Mustard!!! STOP the projection. Not everybody thinks in the same black/white polar way you do.

What do YOU (yes, you Mr Mustard) call a god that is supposed to be all merciful but then puts people in hell for an eternity for not accepting Jeebesus? Now, you can be vengeful and do that. You can maybe be all knowing, but you can’t be all merciful.

You can’t be the creator of all things in the universe knowing “everything” before its created, and then somehow palm off responsibility for the devil and sin onto “man.”

See how religion doesn’t make any sense? You don’t see those inconsistencies in spirituality. And my pointing out the gibberish in your religion doesn’t directly say I think you should change, close, but just shy of the mark.

Now, calling the above “blind hatred” is why I do dislike religion. You pin heads just can’t stand contradiction. You want everyone to line up with your stupid beliefs just as you have done. Sheep like crowds, hate the loner.

Poor Mistard Mustard and his flock of retards. The truth, like the universe, does not neatly divide up into “Either believe everything I do in exactly the same way OR you are the devil.” You, your god, and the other religious idiots are simply wrong.

Relax, learn, try again next X-mas.

#41 Apparently, he did. He was caught because it seems all Christmas Ghosts visited him and he started to spill the beans on himself.

Amazing, when you think a perpetual moral drunk will never have a bad hangover, you see things like this. Moral hangovers this big usually end up in suicide.

#45 Please, have some respect. Is not Jeebesus, is Jebus..

Thanks you, Pedro. Bobo was bothering me with that.

ROFL.

wow..talk about War Of The 50¢ Words..

#42 Wins the Anti-bobbolina ray gun. ;0

(couldn’t resist)

ok.. back to the topic..

in further digging, i found that NJ DOJ
has way better fraud cases..

while Madoff takes the cake on dollar amounts
these guys get the gold star for initiative and enthusiasm. -imagine all the ones that got away..

*IF YOU think about it*..there may have been wholesale looting of all these *bogus* hedge funds, CDS/CDO’s derivatives and whatnot going on
for years. (since they changed the regs, at least)

-if only because there is good chance the people running the bogus hedge funds etc are most likely NOT to report any thievery as they are thieves themselves.. -makes me wish i was a kid again.. ::sigh::

why don’t we hear about this stuff in the news?

-below is a snippet from DOJ of NJ(newark)
case dealing with a multi-million, multi-national credit theft scam.. Note the banks targeted at the bottom..all the major players and then some..
–
“The four men arrested earlier today part of a multi-national identity theft ring that operates in the UnitedStates, the United Kingdom, Canada, China, Japan, Vietnam, and South Korea, among other places. The defendants and their co-conspirators have acquired identity information of thousands of victims and used that information to conduct numerous fraudulent schemes, including depleting their victims’ home equity line of credit (HELOC) accounts.

….According to the Complaints, the defendants and their co-conspirators compromised confidential customer account information relating to several large and small banks, credit unions, and credit issuers throughout the United States. The larger institutional victims identified in the Complaint included Citibank, JPMorganChase, Wachovia,
Washington Mutual, and Bank of America, among others.
Dozens of smaller banks and credit unions have also been victimized, including the Navy Federal Credit Union, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, U.S. Senate Federal Credit Union, the State Department Federal Credit Union, and at least approximately eleven New Jersey-based financial
institutions.”

-s

#47 – ‘dro

>> Just like God & Logic

My gosh! My golly! You’re saying that “God” and “logic” are a tautology? Lordy, lordy!! I must be a more talented evangelist than I had dared hope! ¡Ay bendito!

Or perhaps, you do not know what a tautology is.

You should look it up in the dictionary. I believe that in Kuzco-speak, se llama “una tautología”. Que busques la palabra, y entonces vuelvas. ¿Está bien?

Tautology: 1 a: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word /// yep, that pretty much covers the concept. Funny that god only succeeds if it is a tautology and CONSTANTLY repeated. An endless tautology then if the distinction is needed?

My wife said it best. Investors should be standing outside on the sidewalk, chanting, “Jump, jump, jump!”

This Madoff fellow will probably make the Presidential Pardon list. That’s why he choose to go out this year, this month. He’ll only be out of circulation for a few weeks. They’re going to have to rent an island somewhere, for all the crooks that Bush will be pardoning, to go on. Perhaps Manhattan island.

#56 – Bobbolina

I said: Aren’t “Wall Street” and “scam” a tautology?

‘dro said: </iJust like God & Logic

<b?Bobbolina said: yep, that pretty much covers the concept.

Skeedaddy, and a big Wall Street BOO-yah to you, Bobbolina! Even the Master Logician agrees that God and logic are tautological.

“a tautology is an unnecessary (and usually unintentional) repetition of meaning, using two different words that effectively say the same thing twice (often originally from different languages). It is often regarded as a fault of style and was defined by Fowler as “saying the same thing twice”.“. Inasmuch as “God” is from the Old English and “logic” is fromthe Old French, the two words would seem to fit even that criterion.

Huh. Saying “God and saying “logic” is “saying the same thing twice”.

Who’da thunk even Mista Bobbolina, the Madalyn Murray O’Hair of Pretzel Logic, would come to this considered conclusion?

Zounds.

#42
Obviously, I disagree. You must use twisted logic (or illogic) to justify spirituality beyond its placebo effects. That is not to say that for many that placebo effect is without benefit, but it is still fantasy.

#44
As typical, you rear your habit of twisting the meaning of common words like religion to fit your own view of the world. Faith healers, cult leaders, witch doctors and others are all byproducts of choosing to accept ideas that have no tangible evidence to support them.

To a person, no atheist cares what any individual believes. If that were all to the discussion, it would stop there. However, the religious have a habit of imposing their beliefs on others including stamping it on coinage, silly prayers during public hearings and schools, preventing research into stem cells and such. It is when those beliefs affect policy that atheists have an issue.

#59
You cannot be serious. You are blaming Bush for the financial crisis? Why don’t you blame him for hangnails while you are at it? The Bush Administration has mentioned on multiple occassions over the past eight years that a financial crisis might be coming if more regulation and oversight was not created. It was Congress (both Republican and Democrat) that failed to do anything about it. What about the Congressional oversight committee that was created after Enron? Where were they?

#67–Mustard, stop being so tedious. You obviously think it is funny, but no, its just tedious. What your particular beliefs/actions are is pretty irrelevant in a general discussion unless you specifically are charged.

Current flap over posting the atheist sign in Washington State Courthouse demonstrates the issue Thomas fairly points out. Protestants post their Jeebesus rant ON STATE PROPERTY and then object when atheists do the same. Saying “God Exists” is recognizing the universal truth, but saying “God Does Not Exist” is hate speech, lacks decorum, and doesn’t recognize the christians rights to practice their religion without being harassed.

What a bunch of dildoes. Not happy to be able to practice their religion 24/7 as they please, they aren’t happy unless they can inflict their superstition on other people and they call it harassment to be disagreed with.

Yea, I know, you don’t live in Washington.

#67
The number of deaths caused under the guise of religion by the religious is orders of magnitude more than Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao due specifically and solely to a person’s religious beliefs combined. It is a history that goes back almost to the foundations of civilization. The vast majority of deaths caused by these three men were because of perceived political threats or to further political agendas not because of pure religious hatred. I’m sure they did kill people because of religion but *that* number is substantially less than all the people they killed.

The link you provided is obviously from someone, like yourself, that really does not grok atheism. You have proven yourself incapable of grasping the concept of a lack of belief as compared to belief. The article you provided is more evidence of the same as shown in this early statement: “It is obvious that Atheism cannot be true”. Atheism is not a statement of truth any more than a disbelief in Santa Claus is a statement of truth. Atheism merely states that all claims as to the existence of a deity are lacking. No atheist would ever state that atheism alone would bring a more humane world. Do you believe walking under a ladder is bad luck? No? Has getting over that superstition made you any more or less humane? Similarly, just because some realizes that theist claims are nonsense will not make them a more humane person. Conversely, just because someone becomes religious *also* will not make them a more humane person.

#71
First, lack of belief is a universal concept. Second, atheism certainly goes back to at least the 5th century BCE Greece. That covers most of recorded history whereas superstition has been around, as far as we know, as long as man.

It is often hard to separate murder purely for religious reasons and murder in order to further political agendas. Often religion used as an excuse for political murders.

#74
Having once been religious myself along with many people I know, I can safely say that I understand quite a bit about the religious mindset. It is not terribly complicated to understand why people become or remain religious. It has more to do with comfort and belonging than it does truth. The vast majority of people that consider themselves religious have never analyzed their beliefs critically and have no desire to do so. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Modern faith healers, cult leaders, the Inquisition and abortion doctor shooters all have a common thread. They all have either accepted a tenet based on zero evidence or take advantage of those that have. So, while certainly not equal in their behavior, they are equal in the core flaw which drives their behavior.

I can be tolerant and sill dismiss theist claims as nonsense. Tolerant simply means I afford you your right (and fight for such right) to disagree and to have your own beliefs. It does not mean I must accept them or elevate them to any point of validity. I am tolerant of people that believe the world is 6000 years old but I do not have to accept their superstition as truth nor do I need to accept policy based on such nonsense.

I and all atheists to a person would love to leave theists alone in return for the same treatment. However, theists insist on imposing their beliefs on everyone. Silly phrases on money, prayers during court, swearing on Bibles, Ten Commandment placards in government buildings etc.

politics and religion in the same thread..
-there was no way an exposion of thoughts
would not occur. -wonder what a “traditional chinaman” would have to add to this thread..
(weren’t they hindu at the start?)

-that’s all. i have little knowledge of ancient history or religion(s)

#53,57 – bobbo

-thank you for input. however, your not seeing the bigger picture. i’m trying to instigate curiosity
amongst the divided here. i have a knack for recognize patterns. -after spending several hours on the DOJ website, looking at the case files of many sates, i’ve found over a hundred cases of various mortgage and *funds* frauds.

what does it mean? -i’m not sure yet. but it appears as far back as 99 (that i can find) these scams have been proliferating.. i’m wondering if the all the phony (inflated) mortgages are connected to the rippoff scams, or are they one in the same. -just at opposite ends of the overall scam.

on the surface, it seems one cannot exist without the other. plus, a key factor that is needed in both, is a loan officer to sign off on the mortgages. -and they are (ultimately) part of a bank..

anyway..here..scroll the list of NJ 2008 cases..if your bored.. i’ll put it all together..if my PC doesnt die first..major power issues have been killing all the electronics in my house..UPS doesnt seem to help..

gotta run..

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nj/press/2008releases.html

The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.

It seems that Madoff Investment Securities LLC, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all meet that threshold for believability. I’ve heard that the returns can be simply incredible.

No mention yet on this discussion about Madoff’s former NASDAQ tenure (I mean, aside from the head note).

#81 – Thomas

>>Sorry, but I do not believe you.

Well, tfb. Just like your belligerent religious beliefs, you opinion of my personal history makes no nevermind to me. The sure mark of one who is going through bold and saucy phase, being hip-and-happening, avante-garde, a little bit dangerous, existential intellectual blah blah blah, is their inability to accept that others believe anything besides what they believe. It’s tiresome, but you have a lot of company. I told you I was an atheist, and I was an atheist for many years. Much of my life, in fact. Now I’m not. If that doesn’t sit well with you, again, tfb.

>>It is simply another illustration how little
>>about atheism you know. The BS you allegedly
>>took from atheists is likely due to your
>>obvious hypocrisy.

Huh? wtf? The fact that some of the most intolerant, self-important, egocentric, annoying, obnoxious buttinskis I have ever known have been Atheists is “simply another illustration of how little about Atheism I know”?? And their abrasive and intrusive behavior is “due to [my] obvious hypocrisy”? I might respond to that, if I had the slightest idea wtf you’re talking about.

See for yourself right here on dvorak dot org slash blog. You never see a “theist” berating an atheist for his or her beliefs. On the other hand, if I had a nickel for every time I’ve been called a moran, a sheeple, a “true believer” (in the negative sense), an anti-science fanatic, illogical, stupid, mindless, blah blah blah, I’d be as rich as Rockefeller. They are relentless, and they won’t be satisfied until everyone else shares their unshakable religious belief.

>>There are more rapists, ethnic cleaners and
>>murders that are religious than are atheist
>>even accounting for population percentages.

You’ll have to forgive me if I call bullshit on that allegation. Got proof?

#83 Nope, he was busted because he began spilling the beans out loud.

In all the posts, unless I missed one, none of you “know-it-all’s” ever mentioned that this Madoff clown was a major contributor to the Democrats for years.

How’d ya’ miss that one?

#82
You keep claiming you were an atheist but your responses and attitude say differently. It is as if you claim you got a math degree but keep stating that 2+2=5. Judging from this thread and others, if you ever were an atheist, you clearly did not understand what it meant. From what I can tell, you still cannot grasp the fundamental concept of a lack of belief. If you cannot understand this concept, then understanding the mindset of an atheist would be beyond you.

As I said, you cannot embrace an attitude of evidence based thinking with respect to science and then throw out that methodology when it comes to analysis of your belief in the existence of the supernatural. That is hypocrisy.

It is *very* common for theists to be aghast at atheists even on Dvorak’s blog. “You’ll go to hell.” “You must accept Jesus”, “You need to be saved”, “You’re a fool if you don’t believe in a higher power” and so on. Most atheists are reluctant to even mention they are an atheist simply to avoid the barrage of nonsense arguments about how they need to be “saved.”

With respect to prison populations, go research the figures at the Federal Bureau of Prisons. If theists are really more humane, it should be the case that the most prisoners are not religious, right? Not even close. If I remember correctly, the prison population is made up of slightly fewer atheists as a percentage than the general population. Again, if being religious supposedly helps people be humanitarian, we should see far fewer prisoners that are religious rather than equal or more.

Your puerile responses make you sound like a fool. You can use Google as well as I. You and I have been in many of the same discussions regarding religion. If you cared, you can find the evidence of theist nonsense for yourself.

In a previous post some time ago, I did provide a link to the Bureau of Prisons statistics regarding religion. You are perfectly capable of Googling it yourself.

In set theory, many students are never able to get their head around the idea of the empty set. In database design, many developers never really understand nulls. Similarly, it appears you never really understood what a lack of belief really means.

I never posited *my* analysis of other religions. I suggested *you* study cultural anthropology and the techniques used to dissect and understand a culture, particularly primitive cultures and their superstitions and beliefs. Once you have a firm grasp of those methodologies, use those tools to analyze your own culture’s superstitions and beliefs.

If religion is supposed to make people more humane, then it ought to be the case that the prison population has fewer people that are religious than the general population even accounting for people that lie about their convictions or ignore the humane teachings of the given religion. It shouldn’t be equal in percentage to the general population. It should be LESS than the general population by far if religions truly make people more humane. That the prison population mimics the general population proves that the argument that religion helps people be more humane is specious.

No one is trying to make you believe anything. Believe what you wish. However, that will not stop people from pointing out your hypocrisy.

Further, do you acknowledge that the government should stop such nonsense as “In God we Trust” on money, blocking stem research because of religious fear and putting up the Ten Commandments in government buildings? If not, then you are clearly not keeping your side of the bargain.

Hey!–”The Godless Girl” 1929 Silent Film by Ceclie B Demile on TCM Right now===plays just like this blog.

Atheists calling the godsters saps and fools and the godsters making fun of Darwin.

Progress? Not even with the advent of sound and color. Interesting comment on the (non) interaction between science and retardation.