Damn, so close, so close. This would never have happened if the TSA were screening these guys.
Found by Mister Justin
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Damn, so close, so close. This would never have happened if the TSA were screening these guys.
Found by Mister Justin
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Those of you who suggested that our President deserved an assault–shame on you. That includes you John.
#80
>>Those of you who suggested that our President
>>deserved an assault–shame on you.
Who suggested that?
>>That includes you John.
He didn’t even post anything in this thread.
#79–Mustard, I think it more than I say it on these left of center issues: well done. Good mixture of fact and attitude.
Too bad the jingoists have nothing but slogans.
#79
Again MM, you show that you are a fanatic.
RE: Katrina
It was the mayor of NO and the governor that didn’t do dick to get those people out of there. It was both of them and the string of corrupt bozos before them that did not have a real contingency plan in place. It was years of siphoning most of the Army Corp of Engineer money on something other than preventing the city from going under water. It was the mayor’s police that bugged out when the going got tough. It was the governor who was unreachable in order to get authorization to bring in military troops. Compare that situation to the flooding in Iowa where the city and state had a disaster plan in place. When the 1994 Northridge earthquake hit, FEMA were incompetent bozos. Nothing changed. The difference is that the local and State governments had their act together. While FEMA performed poorly, that entire fiasco should be blamed squarely on the shoulders of the people of NO and Louisiana for continually electing corrupt bozos.
RE: FISA
Actually, no. FISA said nothing about when the country was at war and it is already the case that the President can wiretap foreign nationals on foreign soil whenever he wishes. Lincoln regularly spied on Americans in the North that were suspected of being Southern sympathizers and the country was not officially at war (No Congressional declaration nor AUMF equivalent).
RE: POWs
Read up on the Civil War. It was common for Southerners to be detained (not arrested), given a military tribunal and then thrown into a POW camp and the country was not officially at war. Jose Padilla is an exception on which I whole heartedly agree but he is an exception. The vast majority of the people in Gitmo are not US citizens and were not arrested on US soil.
RE: Iraq
If Iraq is under lockdown, then that would still be better than the fear zone under Saddam. It turns out that *some* parts of the country are still on high alert but most of the country is not.
#83–Thomas: you say:
1. “It was the mayor of NO and the governor that didn’t do dick” /// While true, Bush and his minions also did dick or oft time worse than dick as they turned away “unauthorized” rescue efforts while securing poisoned trailers at inflated prices. When “EVERYONE INVOLVED FAILED” it is only partisan bias that spews forth limiting causation to less than everyone. You post nekkid before us==not a pretty sight.
2. It is clear FISA has nothing to say about foreigners in foreign land or the Lincoln Presidency. So, now, TRY TO BE RELEVANT/RATIONAL and tell us how FISA is unclear OR how Bush showed anything other than unbounded hubris in violating its provisions OR how FISA fails to provide any flexibility that is needed?
3. Civil War POW’s BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR????? WTF fantasy are you referring to? Do you have even a single Padilla type example??? From memory, about 80,000 folks were rounded up and detained after 911 for questioning. Some got renditioned overseas. One got punched by the FBI agents when they found out he was completely innocent for being difficult in demanding his rights. Yes, we are no 1939 Germany, but no example of respecting the Constitution in times of stress either.
4. Iraq. I do wonder what happens when we stop paying all sides not to fight. Haven’t formed a conclusion, just wondering.
Thomas, like too many intelligent people, ((like Mustard in fact)) you fail to take correction. Fail to make a losing argument “better” if not abandoned. You can do better.
#83 – Thomas
>>It was the mayor of NO and the governor that
>>didn’t do dick to get those people out of
>>there.
And it was Brownie and Dumbya’s band of fools that didn’t do dick for years to follow.
We’re not rating the mayor of NO or the governor. They may not have done dick, but FEMA CERTAINLY didn’t do dick. I’m suprised Dumbya didn’t give Brownie a Presidential Medal of Freedom for the dick that he didn’t do. And if the role of FEMA is not to do dick, why are we paying their salaries?
If that’s the case (re: FISA), then why were Dumbya’s panties all in a twist when all he had to do was follow the laws as they stood? Why insist on the right to wiretap anyone, anywhere, without ever being held accountable, even after the fact? Kinda makes you think he had something to hide, doesn’t it? Oh well. Maybe when ‘berto Gonzo is indicted, all will be made clearer to us.
RE: POWs Lincoln suspended habeas corpus too. Would you like Dumbya to have had that power? Christ, he’s already used the Constitution as a piece of toilet paper. And regardless of where Gitmo prisoners are from, and where they were arrested, that gives no cause to treat the Geneva Convention with the same disrespect Dumbya treats the Constitution. The standing of America in the world’s eyes went into the crapper with his policy of endless internment and government-sanctioned torture.
Re: Iraq “some” and “most” are pretty subjective terms there, Thomas. If the goal was to take out Saddam, we could have done that for $900 with a sniper. Sheeeit, the whole family could have been put six feet under for a couple of thou.
The bottom line remains, when history books write up Dumbya, they won’t be kind. And a large reason for that will be his monumental bungling of his trophy war in Iraq.
#83
RE: Katrina
The evidence that the local and State governments were the single greatest source of the Katrina fiasco is irrefutable. How is it that every other State does not have a city wiped out by a natural disaster in the manner of Katrina? Category 5 hurricanes hit Florida all the time. How is it that a fiasco like Katrina had not happened to them? Tornadoes hit the midwest all the time. Yet those cities do not rely on the Federal government being the one and only source of aid. Every single city and State, even before Katrina, should assume that any help they get from FEMA is a bonus. They need to be responsible to their own citizens.
I never said “everyone” failed. I said the voters that elected corrupt politicians over decades that did nothing to help prepare the city and State for a real disaster are to blame. Like I said, not Bush’s fault.
RE: FISA
Actually, my response was quite relevant. It is already the case, WITHOUT FISA, that the President can spy on foreign nationals in foreign countries or at home in peace or at war. It is not clear that when the country is at war whether the President can spy on potential threats in the US even if those threats are US citizens. It was done during WWII and during the Civil War.
RE: Civil War
Who said anything about “before” the Civil War. I said DURING the Civil War. Southern sympathizers were regularly thrown into POW camps after having a military tribunal even if they were found in the North. To make it really clear, American citizens were summarily arrested by the government and thrown into POW camps without full due process as afforded by the Constitution and the country was not officially at war.
RE: Padilla
Padilla is the exception to the rule where I agree that the government went too far. They arrested a US citizen and threw out his rights. However, as I said he is the exception. The vast majority of people that were sent to Gitmo were foreigners fighting a war without a country.
I am more than willing to change my position when a compelling argument to the contrary is made. I’ve seen none that would justify blaming Bush for Katrina. Frankly, I think that the wiretapping is small potatoes to the Military Commissions Act of 2006. If you want to place actually blame on abrogation of rights, that is where it should be directed.
#85
In general, the Geneva Convention does not apply to soldiers with no country. There is no host country to coordinate rights, prisoner swaps etc.
> If the goal was to take out Saddam
> , we could have done that for
> $900 with a sniper
Actually, we did try on numerous occassions to do just that. The military did everything they could to pin point his location and hit his hotel, bunker etc. I remember at one point we hit a hotel we thought he was at and flattened and entire block and got one of his lieutenants but not him. He was more elusive than you give him credit.
> Sheeeit, the whole family
> could have been put six feet
> under for a couple of thou.
Well, Saddam did that for us. He killed a large number of his own family.
Bush DESERVES a bag of CRAP to be thrown at him for signing this agreement as a lame duck, instead of letting the next president sign it, since he’s the one who has to work with it. What a jerk.
If Iraq becomes a stable nation, there are respected historians who already are saying that Bush’s presidency with respect to Iraq will be judged positively. With 80% of the violence eliminated, with the end game in progress and the planned troop withdrawals, with continued Democrat support for Bush’s Iraq War architect; seems this could happen.
RBG
#86–Thomas==now you’re being stupid on purpose right?
1. Did Katrina being BENEATH SEA LEVEL escape your review?
2. Like I said==when “everyone” has blame to bear, singling out any subset of everyone only reveals bias which you post as if it were an asset. You are being stupid and biased in an obvious way and when corrected on it, you repeat and amplify it. “It” being how partisan and thereby defective your erstwhile contribution is. IE==with the bias you show and refuse to upgrade, you are all FUD.
2. FISA. You think so little of Constitutional Rights? Must be a Bushie. For the 4th time, you refuse to say what is “unclear” about FISA or to simply admit you misstated some issue or suffered, and continue to suffer, a brain fart. More FUD.
3. Civil War. So, “DURING THE CIVIL WAR” there was no “official declaration of war?” Is that your point Buckie?? Seems to me the South Fired on Fort Sumntner and the North responded. Don’t need a declaration of war to defend if that is your point. But if you don’t think the Bill of Rights is relevant for preventing Presidential warrentless wiretaps, how does it become relevant in issues of declaring war or suspending Habeus Corpus? You really don’t make any sense at all and by that I mean==you contradict yourself. Drowning men do that when they are over their head in FUD.
Gitmo–yes, lots of taxi drivers and chauffers caught up “over there.” That will happen when you give a bounty for people turned in during a civil war. Gitmo is a few hundred people. What about the 80K who were detained at least overnight by the FBI in their post 911 security sweep?
Since you continue to blather incoherently and tangentially to the Bushie’s responsibility for Katrina, I will change tack. Fine. Bush was rereading “The Boy and His Goat” (whatever) during Katrina as it was interrupted by 911. If you think his performance was acceptable, then that is the value you set on the Office of President.
I expect more.
Imagine Bush being the target of a shoeicide attack! Iraq is not safe!
I guess sneaking in pies would have been too obvious.
RE: Katrina
You are calling ME biased?! ROFL. Talk about Pot Kettle Black. You are the one that illogically blames Bush for everything from Katrina to belly button lint.
Sure, there are many people that are responsible for Katrina. The question is who is first and foremost responsible? You want to blame Bush for all the world’s woes. THAT is bias. The people of New Orleans and Louisiana first and foremost dropped the ball in having their city prepared. It was their responsibly first.
RE: FISA
For the 400th time, during a time of war it is unclear whether Presidential war time powers grant him the ability to conduct surveillance on US citizens perceived as enemies. He already has that ability in peace time with foreigners and it has already happened that a President was given the power to conduct surveillance on citizens (Civil War) during a time of national crisis but not war so why not during a war?
RE: Civil War
The Civil War was never officially declared as a war by Congress because it would have admitted that the South was an independent entity. Should I use smaller words so you understand? The President during a time of national crisis was given (took) the power to conduct surveillance on US citizens even though the country was not officially at war. We are technically at war where a President is granted additional powers and it is unclear whether he should not have ability to conduct surveillance on all types of enemies in the US even those that are citizens.
The Bill of Rights says nothing specifically about wiretapping. Your protection against surveillance is due to years of interpretations of those Amendments as they apply to modern technology *and* specific circumstances. That is entirely different. The Supreme Court never ruled on wiretapping protections specifically during a time of war.
IMO, Bush exploited a grey area of interpretation on his ability to conduct surveillance in order to root out terrorists in the US. You should be more worried about the next couple of Presidents using that power than Bush.
RE: Detainment
I don’t know about the supposedly 80,000 people that were detained by the FBI. That would be a problem but wouldn’t that be more of an issue of an overaggressive FBI? It sounds like more of a problem related to a knee jerk reaction by law enforcement than by Bush.
> Bush was rereading “The Boy
> and His Goat”
> (whatever) during Katrina
> as it was interrupted by 911.
I have no idea what you were trying to say here.
That your fanatical opinions prevent you from understanding or devising a coherent, logical response is not FUD. As I have said, there are valid criticisms against Bush. These are not it.
#94–Thomas, you are an idiot. What part of “EVERYBODY IS RESPONSIBLE” means just Bush?
Too stupid for further response. Amazing how perspicacious I am.
#94 – Thomas
>>You want to blame Bush for all the world’s
>>woes. THAT is bias.
No one is blaming Bush for “all the world’s woes”. We’re just saying that everything he touched, he fucked up. Be it FEMA (sure, the genius who built a city below sea level is to blame too, but Dumbya royally fucked up what the Fed was supposed to do in an emergency) to Iraq to FISA to Gitmo to the economy. I got a flat tire last week. That wasn’t Bush’s fault. You can be sure if he came out to change the tire, the transmission would have fallen out and the motor would have exploded, though.
#43 our of 43 presidents. That’s Dumbya’s legacy.
He’s been dodging the truth his whole career. That was a piece of cake and if I could meet the guy i’d shake his hand.
#81, don’t waste your time. That guy could have been launching bullets instead of shoes, and they would still be regretting that he missed.
#95
Re-read #76 and #80. Many on the left, specifically many that post on this blog, blame Bush for the fiasco that occurred with Katrina. “Everybody” is not responsible for Katrina. The people that live in CA, NY, WI and all the other States are not responsible for bad planning by the people of NO and Louisiana. Your singular wit belays your ability to see the point.
#98
Agreed.
#99
That should have read:
Your singular wit betrays your ability to see the point.