WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Some things never change. Scientists said on Friday they had replicated an experiment in which people obediently delivered painful shocks to others if encouraged to do so by authority figures. Seventy percent of volunteers continued to administer electrical shocks — or at least they believed they were doing so — even after an actor claimed they were painful, Jerry Burger of Santa Clara University in California found.
“What we found is validation of the same argument — if you put people into certain situations, they will act in surprising, and maybe often even disturbing, ways,” Burger said in a telephone interview. “This research is still relevant.” Burger was replicating an experiment published in 1961 by Yale University professor Stanley Milgram, in which volunteers were asked to deliver electric “shocks” to other people if they answered certain questions incorrectly. Milgram found that, after hearing an actor cry out in pain at 150 volts, 82.5 percent of participants continued administering shocks, most to the maximum 450 volts.
The experiment surprised psychologists and no one has tried to replicate it because of the distress suffered by many of the volunteers who believed they were shocking another person.
“When you hear the man scream and say, ‘let me out, I can’t stand it,’ that is the point when the real stress that people criticized Milgram for kicked in,” Burger said. “It was a very, very, very stressful experience for many of the participants. That is the reason no one can ethically replicate the experiment today.”Burger found no differences among his volunteers, aged 20 to 81, and carefully screened them to be average representatives of the U.S. public.
# 60 bobbo said, “#59–Paddy-O==how can you tell if a knob is hooked up to electricity or not?”
Well, booboo. You realize that it is illegal in this country to torture? This was done at a US University. So, I would realize that there was nothing truly dangerous going on. To really torture someone with electricity requires a dangerous amount of current.
I guess maybe the test subjects were of your IQ level or below. The guy should have dministered IQ tests to see if it was representative of the US population…
“It was the people that were administering the shock that were the “real” test subjects. When they talk about the experience being stressful, they are referring to the people administering the shocks who genuinely thought they were shocking people – and yet did it anyway.”
I realize that. Most people know, I believe, that the 120 volts found all over your house is potentially lethal. Shouldn’t they then be suspicious of the “150 volts” used on the other “test subjects”?
/me lights a match..
well…it’s nice to see the gang is all here..
/me takes a seat at the round table..
(we should all be invited to do a Charlie Rose
show. -me thinks it would be hilarious..)
i vote #15 for best response:
“The Monster’s Lawyer said,
Bobbo’s been torturing us for months and he wasn’t even asked to.”
-if only because well…bobbo takes it like a champ.. ;p
-now about the volts… yeah, it’s the current that really matters..as tesla used to love showing off the “skinning” effect of a million_ volts traveling over him..
nonetheless 150v of AC even if its just a few miliamps can be quite annoying to those not acclimated to it..and if you have a pacemaker, well..that would add a “bit of stress”
to the test to be sure.. DC would cause clotting at some point if memory serves correct. (?)
given the *purposeful lack* of moral values being fostered in today schools and colleges, it’s no wonder the trend continues..
what they do not tell is what kind of authority figure was used..
-pretty sad commentary nonetheless. i guess
this is why gitmo has survived as long as it has.
aside from that… i say the current experiment was
an updated trial balloon being floated to see how far the upcoming “civilian national security force” can be pushed into serving as government stooges against the American people for the manufactured crisis Joe Biden said will befall the new administration in six months or so.
(i’m gonna guess when the dollar goes poof next
year, we’ll have some serious chaos to deal with)
the 2.5 million jobs to be created no doubt will
contain in part, funding for big O’s (old) new idea of public service..
and it’s no joke.. the Big O was one of the founders of Public Allies..basically another branch of AmeriCorp..which low and behold, was
a Clinton concept (1993)…basically a domestic version of the The Peace Corp…
if i may be so bold as to say.. “ahha! -the plot thickens!”
-think about it..kinda sheds light on
one bigger picture..
and here are some supporting links to the envy of the kool-aid masses and the disdain of well, those who knew better..
from the Public Allies website:
—-
“FAQ’s About Senator Barack and Michelle Obama:
http://www.publicallies.org/site/c.liKUL3PNLvF/b.3960231/k.F978/FAQs_About_Senator_Barack_and_Michelle_Obama.htm
—-
some good’ol wiki action on AmeriCorp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmeriCorps
—-
-and the propaganda would not be complete
without a comment from WorldNetDaily:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74643
—-
i mean what better time will there be to create a love affair with/for the big government nipple than when America is thrown into financial chaos and it’s people are offered the illusion of stability (and power) that a government job supposedly provides..
-now that is the most dangerous kool-aid of all.
/me dons flame-proof suit..
-s
Ok… no doubt…the NSF funded this *study* as
well.
here is one SCU grant that looks like this study would fall under take note of this:
“How Ethics and Values Shape Biological Control Practice and Policy.”
—-snip —-
Keith Warner OFM, Environmental Studies, received a grant for $31,353 from the National Science Foundation to support Managed Risk in the Public Interest: How Ethics and Values Shape Biological Control Practice and Policy. This funding is for the first year of an anticipated three-year award. Warner also received second year funding of $34,181 in fall 2007 from the California Department of Food and Agriculture to support “Institutional Aspects of Biological Control.” With this amendment, the award totals $68,096, providing funding for research into the scientific, economic, and policy factors shaping pesticide alternatives in California agriculture.
—-snip —-
as a matter of fact.. it looks like SCU is nothing but a government test center for the DoE, NSF, NIH and NASA amongst others.. (i’m sure most university
are as well but..)
here is a link to their current grants from 2006 forward:
http://www.scu.edu/excellence/faculty/grants.cfm
most interesting…think i’ll forage other universitie’s grants to see what lies ahead for us..
-s
# 63–soundwash==I see what your nick means now, all I can read is a bunch of white noise. If you want to troll a thread, you have to shoot bullets, not a mystifying fog. Which of your 10 points do you really want a response on??
Of koolaid==you’ve already drunk it if you think “the financial crises” hasen’t already occurred rather than posing it soon arrive. Like a tsunami–its waves and the first few have already hit. No need to walk to the shoreline to watch for the next wave.
Paddy==ok. I tried to give you a break, but I’ll take your gibberish at face value. You don’t understand the subject of this thread at all. I can’t tell if you are floating in and out of lucidity, or if its my own desire to be kind to dumb animals. Its that close.
#53 bobbo said:
“I was reading the other day about an understanding of “sarcasm” being one of the first mental skills to go with advancing alzheimers.
-now see..this is why as much as we like to pick on bobbo, you have to love his witty innuendo at times..
/me gives bobbo back the anti-bobbolina ray gun from that other thread a few days ago…just for today.. ;p
cheers mate.
-s
Paddy-RAMBO
>>Exactly! Any person with an IQ of 80 or above
>>would have realized it.
Can you REALLY be this stupid, or are you jes’ funnin’ us? Please tell me you’re jes’ funnin’ us.
>>Well, booboo. You realize that it is illegal
>>in this country to torture?
Huh? It is? I thought Heart Attack Cheney disabused us of this notion years ago.
Or are you suggesting that Heart Attack will be tried for war crimes!?!?!
Yikes!!
I never thought I’d see Paddy-RAMBO claiming that the shadow president of the United States was a common war criminal! Sha-zam!!
#64 – SW
>>as a matter of fact.. it looks like SCU is
>>nothing but a government test center for the
>>DoE, NSF, NIH and NASA amongst others..
If what you’re saying, hidden amongs all that high-technology internet chat shit like “/me does blah blah blah” is that university funding for most scientific research comes from the government..well… DUH.
#66–soundwash==I’m against civilian ownership of guns except under tight controls and that does extend to ray- guns even if they target only specific genetic phenoms.
You and Mustard are just too violent for my taste, be it offensive weapons of mass destruction, or offensive anthromorphication of the god-head, or just being overly long winded====so, not being a hypocrite, I’ll stop.
Yawn. Why does this surprise anyone?
#57 Wow! A blog’s first. You don’t know what someone’s talking about.
I think something like dogs for the blind should be used to help people understand what others are saying. Dogs for the dense?
#65 bobbo..
actually, i’m not too worried about *points*
i throw stuff out there in a feeble attempt to get people to do their own research..and maybe view a different path to ponder.. more often than not, i do not do any followups on what i post..
i see DU as a source of light-hearted entertaining information and find the regular *crew* of posters here a alot of fun and even educational at times, -yourself included.
i’m sure when the final Big Gov axe finally falls,
we’ll all find ourselves in staring at each other in the same FEMA camp for having individual thoughts. -so there.
as for kool-aid…wait until the ALT-A and ARM loans start resetting next year in an economy and dollar that is on the edge of a cliff.
-the *real financial crisis* has even started yet.
this is just a dry run.. have you seen the Baltic Dry index lately? (for starters)
-anyway…in case my humour is too esoteric, -know that all my posts always have a hidden “tongue in cheek” factor in them..no matter how serious (or not) the subject matter..
(also.. do note that i have the attention span
of gnat..i do after all, fix pc’s. -which, in my observation of fellow gurus, is a given. -so nice billeted *points* of interest are few and far between) -i’m lucky i can remember a complete thought-line and write it down most of the time..
i wouldn’t call myself “a jaded downtown NY hipster who seen it all for nothing ya know.. ;p
lighten up mate..or maybe, you should try the 500v setting..? muahhaaaha..
-after all..humour is nothing more than an overblown magnification of a truth or fact.
so it works either way. (am i mistaken for thinking sarcasm is not humour? -if so,
sue me.) ;0
anyway… i *hope* i’m correct in thinking most of the regular suspects in here have a similar attitude..
i mean come on… the mr. mustard vs paddy-O saga
is worth the price of admission alone…and when those two focus on someone else..well..no matter what your slant on life, a lesson will be learned.
then we have cursor_ with brilliantly simple but sobering facts (factoids?) of life.. (or lack thereof)
gary, the dangerous infidel is like cursor_ on steroids, -elaborating with more detail, the utter reality of things many of us would rather deny…
pedro pops in reinforcing someone elses argument with taste of his own wit..with good effect.,
GregAllen: he’s brutally honest in his observations.. (take notes)
then you have GlennE and Thomas, who have some real valid opinions and facts that should never go ignored, as well as some good history lessons to reminds us what lemmings the masses are, for the most part..no exaggeration either..[sad but true]
and ofc…it seems most of the time, no matter what our differences, we all have time to single the mighty bobbo out.. you should be proud.
you probably get more attention than all of us combined.. nonetheless.. your are vital to this DU commentary…if anything, we actually agree
on more things than not…it’s just the presentation which is sometimes hard to swallow…and perhaps, blinds us to the reality of…
all and all, i think for the most part..no one will respomd (or has a clue) to our *expanded thinking* locally. herein, John C. and Company
feeds us the news that matters (questionable at best, but there it is..) -and we all hash out the details that the masses are too loath (or ignorant)
to talk about..
that my friends..is all that matters. -for we all have hungry egos to feed. who better to spoon-feed us our own bullshit but ourselves..
so (to paraphrase mr. mustard sort-of..) merry x-mas, ..to this Atheist den of politically (in)correct den of iniquity. -i still think we all serve the public better that the mass media ever will.. (anyone out there want to syndicate this blog??)
-and ofc… a special thanks and merry x-mas to John C. & Editorial crew for paying for the space that allows us to flex our
/me raises a glass for super inflated ego’s everywhere..
-peace, love and froot loops..
-s
# 69 bobbo said,
or offensive anthromorphication of the god-head, or just being ***overly long winded***
[emphasis added]
-oh OH… i’ll take overly long winded for $200 please.. (see above for *proof in the pudding* :p
sometimes, i just can’t help myself..
fwiw: #70 Snot…see pedro at #71…he always comes thru for “sweet and simple” -me? apparently, someone shoved bagpipes up my #!$#!^….i have wind to spare…
bobbo…violence may not be the solution..but more often than not, -it’s the answer..
-while i have no love of god or religion, it would be foolish not own a gun to protect me from both…
-on that note..i have a sorry looking soul at the door with pc in hand..
cya’s later..
(step back, take a breath,*see the big picture*)
-s
Another short report on the Torture study is here. Of more interest is the Celebration of Galielo and Darwin discussion:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16312-shocking-study-reveals-people-still-willing-to-torture.html
I vote for Darwin. I think Galielo knocked God off his pedestal, Darwin then kicked him for good measure and finished this two-fer with Hoomans.
#74 – Bobo
>>I vote for Darwin. I think Galielo knocked
>>God off his pedestal, Darwin then kicked him
>>for good measure and finished this two-fer
>>with Hoomans.
Unfortunately, the contest is over who knocked MAN off his pedestal. No one is claiming that God has been knocked off of His.
And if he had been, it certainly wouldn’t have been by either the good Christian Galileo, nor the Biblical scholar Darwin, who believed God to be the “Ultimate Lawgiver”.
Your pathological insistence on bringing your hatred for all things spiritual into every thread is noted.
#75–Mustard==rtfl (link). In fact, in both cases, as usual, you are wrong. Compare the incongruity in what they discovered/propounded as “the truth” and the faith they professed.
Faith—aka—not wanting to be burned at the stake in Galielo’s case, or spurned by his wifey in Darwins Case. Yes, very strong arguments for the power of faith.
HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beside, knowledge is independent of “attitudes” even by the original proposer==and that applies to god too in ways you don’t appreciate.
#76 – Bobo
>>RTFL
I did read it, Mista Bobbolina. Perhaps you should take your own advice, and read beyond the first paragraph.
“Having said that, Galileo’s Catholic faith was completely unshaken by his discovery..
Darwin made no claims about his work vis-à-vis God, as he rightly should not have.
Neither of their works speaks to the existence or nature of a higher power, any more than the invention of the transistor does.
Your problem Bobbolina (and I’m surprised you don’t recognize this yourself, being one of the great Logicians/ Punctuators or our time) is that you set up absurd straw men, and when they’re knocked down, gleefully proclaim “Aha! That shows there is no God!!”.
When in reality, all it shows is the imperfect knowledge of scientists in the 17th and 19th centuries.
Try not to let your irrational hatred of all things spiritual bleed over into topics where they have no place.
I do not beleive there is no god. I do believe there is a god. I’m not yet sure which religion got it right.
Should I just ponder about that or just draw a paper from a hat?
And please, don’t tell me all religions have the same god with just a different name, that would so piss me off…
#78 Pedro,
God is a sadisctic voyeur masturbating at the sight of his followers killing everyone and each other to gain his favour.