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	<title>Comments on: If You&#8217;re Paying Anything For Text Messaging, You&#8217;re Being Ripped Off</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462976</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462976</guid>
		<description>Phone Company..
Gets your money NO matter if you use it or NOT.

Bill $28.83
res line $19.75
911/Fed Univ Serv Fund/Fed Excise/State univ serv fund/Tele Assistance prog/Federal Access Charge $9.08
ANd is going up ANOTHER $3-4 NEXT month..

I would figure that about 1/2 is profit to go into Expansion..  WHERE??
Even if its only 1/4. ALL the people in the USA paying into Expansion..(about $5 per person with a LAND LINE) every month they are getting enough money to install FIBER. 
estimate 150,000,000 HOME lines, and 2 times that for Business(every business needs 2 or more LAND lines(cc card machines, fax,..)) 450,000,000 total lines times $5.
$2,250,000,000 per month??
This over 4 Corps?? 
4 corps that cant figure out WHO owns WHOM??  Parts break off and buy up the MOTHER company, then change their name and Buy up another company then SELL themselves off, to be bought up buy the other Company.

And for MOSt of you that DONT understand..
YOUR CELLPHONE USES PHONE LINES.
There IS NO WIRELESS BACKBONE across this nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phone Company..<br />
Gets your money NO matter if you use it or NOT.</p>
<p>Bill $28.83<br />
res line $19.75<br />
911/Fed Univ Serv Fund/Fed Excise/State univ serv fund/Tele Assistance prog/Federal Access Charge $9.08<br />
ANd is going up ANOTHER $3-4 NEXT month..</p>
<p>I would figure that about 1/2 is profit to go into Expansion..  WHERE??<br />
Even if its only 1/4. ALL the people in the USA paying into Expansion..(about $5 per person with a LAND LINE) every month they are getting enough money to install FIBER.<br />
estimate 150,000,000 HOME lines, and 2 times that for Business(every business needs 2 or more LAND lines(cc card machines, fax,..)) 450,000,000 total lines times $5.<br />
$2,250,000,000 per month??<br />
This over 4 Corps??<br />
4 corps that cant figure out WHO owns WHOM??  Parts break off and buy up the MOTHER company, then change their name and Buy up another company then SELL themselves off, to be bought up buy the other Company.</p>
<p>And for MOSt of you that DONT understand..<br />
YOUR CELLPHONE USES PHONE LINES.<br />
There IS NO WIRELESS BACKBONE across this nation.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462927</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462927</guid>
		<description>You would think,
That the PHONE company would allow BASIC TECH that has been used for the last 20+ years to become STANDARD..Caller ID, Call forwarding, and so forth.
BUT, I BET you do not realize HOW many relay stations HAVENT been updated/upgraded in over 20-30 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You would think,<br />
That the PHONE company would allow BASIC TECH that has been used for the last 20+ years to become STANDARD..Caller ID, Call forwarding, and so forth.<br />
BUT, I BET you do not realize HOW many relay stations HAVENT been updated/upgraded in over 20-30 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn E.</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462843</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462843</guid>
		<description>Yeah, and they charge for the Call ID service, which is code sent between rings, and is on the computers whether it&#039;s used or not. The taxpayers funded the 9-1-1 service that made it possible. But you have to pay for any private use of the info. Like whether its a friend calling you, or some telemarketing scam artists.

The Touch Tone technology was another phone company scam. It saved them billions, over the older pulse code technology. But rather than use the money they saved to replace the older circuits. They charged everyone for the Touch Tone upgrade. And used the money to keep the pulse code system going (actually made it solid state), to act as a form of punishment of NOT upgrading. In my area, we had pulse for the longest time. Than it became Touch Tone, without any notice or fee. And then one day it became pulse dial again, for a time. Then mandatory Touch Tone, with a fee increase. We never asked for it, it was forced on us. And yet the system responds to either kind of dialer. So why the HELL didn&#039;t we get a rate reduction for technology that saved the phone company from getting mechanical relays in use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, and they charge for the Call ID service, which is code sent between rings, and is on the computers whether it&#8217;s used or not. The taxpayers funded the 9-1-1 service that made it possible. But you have to pay for any private use of the info. Like whether its a friend calling you, or some telemarketing scam artists.</p>
<p>The Touch Tone technology was another phone company scam. It saved them billions, over the older pulse code technology. But rather than use the money they saved to replace the older circuits. They charged everyone for the Touch Tone upgrade. And used the money to keep the pulse code system going (actually made it solid state), to act as a form of punishment of NOT upgrading. In my area, we had pulse for the longest time. Than it became Touch Tone, without any notice or fee. And then one day it became pulse dial again, for a time. Then mandatory Touch Tone, with a fee increase. We never asked for it, it was forced on us. And yet the system responds to either kind of dialer. So why the HELL didn&#8217;t we get a rate reduction for technology that saved the phone company from getting mechanical relays in use?</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462810</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462810</guid>
		<description>Who remembers when TXT message pagers were the NEET thing. Better then PAGERS and LESS expensive then a cell phone.. And some of the PACKAGES to ADD Txting are STUPID. 
This is NOTHING compared to ADDING Internet, EMAIL, and sending/receive PICTURES..WHICH ADDS LOTS of money to someones POCKET.
Im waiting for a SOLID Bandwidth charge. NOTHING ELSE.  If you consider that Digital Phones Compared to analog. It like an MP3 of a RECORD/CD. VERY compressed and it dont SOUND the SAME.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who remembers when TXT message pagers were the NEET thing. Better then PAGERS and LESS expensive then a cell phone.. And some of the PACKAGES to ADD Txting are STUPID.<br />
This is NOTHING compared to ADDING Internet, EMAIL, and sending/receive PICTURES..WHICH ADDS LOTS of money to someones POCKET.<br />
Im waiting for a SOLID Bandwidth charge. NOTHING ELSE.  If you consider that Digital Phones Compared to analog. It like an MP3 of a RECORD/CD. VERY compressed and it dont SOUND the SAME.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave W</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462755</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462755</guid>
		<description>I have never sent a text message. I refuse to read those sent to me. The whole concept seems entirely suited to the 15 year old set. 

Silly me, I think telephones are for talking, and I&#039;ll go one further...I think cell phones are for when I&#039;m not in reach of a land line. As far as it goes, I don&#039;t really care to talk on the phone unless I have something to say or want to hear what the other party has to say. 90% of telephone usage these days seems to be complete rubbish. 

Now, once again, I WOULD like to get a cell phone with decent fidelity and service. But I gave up holding my breath on that decades ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never sent a text message. I refuse to read those sent to me. The whole concept seems entirely suited to the 15 year old set. </p>
<p>Silly me, I think telephones are for talking, and I&#8217;ll go one further&#8230;I think cell phones are for when I&#8217;m not in reach of a land line. As far as it goes, I don&#8217;t really care to talk on the phone unless I have something to say or want to hear what the other party has to say. 90% of telephone usage these days seems to be complete rubbish. </p>
<p>Now, once again, I WOULD like to get a cell phone with decent fidelity and service. But I gave up holding my breath on that decades ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462750</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462750</guid>
		<description>First, this is a service. If you take it and use it you know what the cost is.

Second, there is nothing wrong with the government looking at cell phone charges. If the providers are colluding on charges it is the government&#039;s responsibility to investigate and protect the consumer. 

Third, I expect the government to regulate the market place when the competition has been reduced to a few major players that practice unfair practices. In short, read your dispute mechanism in your contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, this is a service. If you take it and use it you know what the cost is.</p>
<p>Second, there is nothing wrong with the government looking at cell phone charges. If the providers are colluding on charges it is the government&#8217;s responsibility to investigate and protect the consumer. </p>
<p>Third, I expect the government to regulate the market place when the competition has been reduced to a few major players that practice unfair practices. In short, read your dispute mechanism in your contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462723</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462723</guid>
		<description>#7 - Highly unlikely that these terminals would replace SMS.  Why should I seek out a terminal when I have one at my hip or in my pocket?  (out of curiosity, is your name an Electric Dreams reference?)

#8 - Despite the fact that I am a free market Republican, I think that it&#039;s acceptable for Congress to step in occasionally to help the little guy when he&#039;s getting pinched by big corporations.  They do it all the time.

#11 - Nothing will come of it.

#13 - The first carrier to cheaply do this will more than make up their &quot;losses&quot; when customers flock their way.

It&#039;s an older (and outdated) way of doing business.  Same mindset as the RIAA: &quot;If you&#039;re not paying for it, you can&#039;t have it, and we hate you for it.&quot;  What they fail to realize is that there&#039;s an even older business concept: lure customers in by giving some things away for free, then nail them with other charges.  :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7 &#8211; Highly unlikely that these terminals would replace SMS.  Why should I seek out a terminal when I have one at my hip or in my pocket?  (out of curiosity, is your name an Electric Dreams reference?)</p>
<p>#8 &#8211; Despite the fact that I am a free market Republican, I think that it&#8217;s acceptable for Congress to step in occasionally to help the little guy when he&#8217;s getting pinched by big corporations.  They do it all the time.</p>
<p>#11 &#8211; Nothing will come of it.</p>
<p>#13 &#8211; The first carrier to cheaply do this will more than make up their &#8220;losses&#8221; when customers flock their way.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an older (and outdated) way of doing business.  Same mindset as the RIAA: &#8220;If you&#8217;re not paying for it, you can&#8217;t have it, and we hate you for it.&#8221;  What they fail to realize is that there&#8217;s an even older business concept: lure customers in by giving some things away for free, then nail them with other charges.  <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462720</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462720</guid>
		<description>OK, the bandwidth may be free but it&#039;s still a service I am willing to pay for -- not a lot, but something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, the bandwidth may be free but it&#8217;s still a service I am willing to pay for &#8212; not a lot, but something.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462704</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462704</guid>
		<description>Yeah, and let&#039;s get after those software companies next! The marginal cost for the next copy of software is basically zero, so they should just give it away. /sarcasm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, and let&#8217;s get after those software companies next! The marginal cost for the next copy of software is basically zero, so they should just give it away. /sarcasm</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462700</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462700</guid>
		<description>#21--LL==whats more important to a society:  having multiple successful cell phone companies or having a society with cheap effective widespread accessible communication network?

Or should both interests be taken into account with perhaps a bias one way or the other?

Silly to think society should be arranged for only a few to make big bucks off the backs of the many.  Equally silly to think the leading edge of technology can be divined by  government.  Good thing there is a lot of slop in between unless you imagine yourself to be an entrepreneur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21&#8211;LL==whats more important to a society:  having multiple successful cell phone companies or having a society with cheap effective widespread accessible communication network?</p>
<p>Or should both interests be taken into account with perhaps a bias one way or the other?</p>
<p>Silly to think society should be arranged for only a few to make big bucks off the backs of the many.  Equally silly to think the leading edge of technology can be divined by  government.  Good thing there is a lot of slop in between unless you imagine yourself to be an entrepreneur.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462691</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462691</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a service, one you don&#039;t have to use if you don&#039;t want to.  And if even if there was NO cost to maintain it, does that mean it should be free?

People think it&#039;s the US carriers making the money? 

Canada is way more profitable at 45.9% vs. the US at 32.1%.

The most profitable telecommunications company in the world was Telecom New Zealand, with a margin of 61.4 per cent.

So, before you start bashing US telecom companies for being greedy, think about this.  The 90% profit margin for SMS is keeping the US companies at the global average profit.  With all the regulations imposed on the cell phone companies, they have to turn a profit somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a service, one you don&#8217;t have to use if you don&#8217;t want to.  And if even if there was NO cost to maintain it, does that mean it should be free?</p>
<p>People think it&#8217;s the US carriers making the money? </p>
<p>Canada is way more profitable at 45.9% vs. the US at 32.1%.</p>
<p>The most profitable telecommunications company in the world was Telecom New Zealand, with a margin of 61.4 per cent.</p>
<p>So, before you start bashing US telecom companies for being greedy, think about this.  The 90% profit margin for SMS is keeping the US companies at the global average profit.  With all the regulations imposed on the cell phone companies, they have to turn a profit somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462683</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462683</guid>
		<description>#3
The analysis of markets and economics provided in your link does not account for all variables in market dynamics. Costs to consumers will be close to production costs when competition is high. However, if competition is limited, there is a tendency for collusion amongst competitors to keep prices artificially high. That is what is happening here. Consumers are being gouged because there is insufficient competition in the marketplace to prevent it. Perhaps you might want to consider statements from Harvard MBA about economics and markets more carefully before dismissing them.

As post #18 said, this is a matter of interstate commerce if you have an industry colluding to set prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3<br />
The analysis of markets and economics provided in your link does not account for all variables in market dynamics. Costs to consumers will be close to production costs when competition is high. However, if competition is limited, there is a tendency for collusion amongst competitors to keep prices artificially high. That is what is happening here. Consumers are being gouged because there is insufficient competition in the marketplace to prevent it. Perhaps you might want to consider statements from Harvard MBA about economics and markets more carefully before dismissing them.</p>
<p>As post #18 said, this is a matter of interstate commerce if you have an industry colluding to set prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462673</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462673</guid>
		<description>Yep. That cellular sideband channel is a huge profit maker.  

Fortunately, my company pays for my ATT cellular oriented charges but my partner pays that obscene $20/mo.  We are huge texting users. 

I can only see texting getting bigger as location based services will mostly rely on getting presence updates from that same channel. Hopefully the government will watch for price fixing from carriers (now that a government for the people will be coming).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. That cellular sideband channel is a huge profit maker.  </p>
<p>Fortunately, my company pays for my ATT cellular oriented charges but my partner pays that obscene $20/mo.  We are huge texting users. </p>
<p>I can only see texting getting bigger as location based services will mostly rely on getting presence updates from that same channel. Hopefully the government will watch for price fixing from carriers (now that a government for the people will be coming).</p>
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		<title>By: stopher</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462666</link>
		<dc:creator>stopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462666</guid>
		<description>&quot;That being said, Sen Kohl has no business trying to make this a congressional matter. There is nothing illegal in charging a large amount for something.&quot;
The illegality comes in the form of oligopolistic price collusion. This is not a free market situation where supply and demand is setting a price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That being said, Sen Kohl has no business trying to make this a congressional matter. There is nothing illegal in charging a large amount for something.&#8221;<br />
The illegality comes in the form of oligopolistic price collusion. This is not a free market situation where supply and demand is setting a price.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/12/30/if-youre-paying-anything-for-text-messaging-youre-being-ripped-off/comment-page-1/#comment-1462657</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=35059#comment-1462657</guid>
		<description>The whole cell phone industry pricing is a scam, not just sms&#039;.

Yet, there are people here that think MS (or anyone else for that matter) won;t get away with that cloud pay-as-you-go-computing crap.

#7 Oh, a cell phone industry apologist. I wonder where you&#039;d work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole cell phone industry pricing is a scam, not just sms&#8217;.</p>
<p>Yet, there are people here that think MS (or anyone else for that matter) won;t get away with that cloud pay-as-you-go-computing crap.</p>
<p>#7 Oh, a cell phone industry apologist. I wonder where you&#8217;d work.</p>
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