However I do think it is selfish not to adopt. I mean you want a kid, and millions are available. What’s so great about having one grow inside you?

I mean seriously, the same thing about abortion. I hate when people go: “millions of would be parents would love to have a beautiful baby” That is selfish!!! There are more than enough children ages 1-17 that need homes. But people want to be the ones to raise them from the get-go. So it is selfish!

With that said, as a student that needs money, I am more than happy to donate. Which I am in the process of doing. Am I a hypocrite? Completely. Do I care? Not a at all!

How about a big Y-E-S! Let’s see, there’s all this moralistic republican backlash about stem cell research. And using stored eggs and sperm for experimental research. And certainly there’s huge objections to people selling babies, like on eBay or something. But for some reason, it suddenly becomes Ok to sell eggs and sperm for others to try and make babies with. Hmmmm. Am I missing some fine distinction here? Why is one Ok, and the other not Ok? Is this some fancy shell game logic? Or other example of a grandfathered industry, like Tobacco, that gets by with its lack of ethics, in selling a product?

So it’s Ok to sell eggs, if you plan on making blue eyed boy who’ll go off to war someday. But just don’t experiment on those eggs to find a cure for the diseases that kills thousands every year. You’re only allowed to make life, NOT save life.

In some states in not legal to marry your own sister or brother, even if you’re both adopted, and not blood related. But all this trafficking in eggs and sperm, complicates things by NOT having any paper trail of who’s related to who. Anyone could easily marry (and having children with) someone whom their parents supplied the reproductive cells of. And never even suspect it, until (perhaps) their children turn out deformed or something. And almost certainly the doctors aren’t going to rat out the system they’re apart of, as the cause of it. The same has also held true for marrying adopted persons. No records are made available to keep one from marrying a close blood relation. That might put a crimp in the adoption business. Another grandfathered institution, that’s out of step with out understanding of genetic diversity.

They could pass a law to force DNA tests and records be kept of adoptees and cell donations. But this could put a crimp in a rack that doctors have profited by for years (mostly males). Donating sperm to pay for Medical School. A paper trail would make it much more difficult to hid their abuse of the system. The clinics should impose donation limits. But I seriously doubt they ever do. Especially for new doctors.

>>my understanding of set theory

Oh, brother.

I have much to learn with your beneficence. I only hope you post here long enough for me to recast my education.

Mustard requests you start with my punctuation.

My last statement wasn’t a conclusion, just some validation to my opinion

My conclusion was and still remains… the inherent desire to extend one’s own genes has nothing to do with ego. Desire to extend one’s own genes and a desire to have a family are one and the same. The drive behind it supersedes any compassion for another persons unwanted children.

“ADOPTION is the practical, easiest, cheapest, most compassionate, societal beneficial way to have that family.” You make it seem that the couple trying to conceive via IVF is responsible for those children. They are not. It would be better for society if those who bear the children kept them, with help if necessary, or they were aborted if unwanted. And also, contrary to what you said, it is neither cheaper or easier to adopt a child over IVF.

If a desire to have a family was the driving force, then on procreation problems, or even without if you come right down to it, ADOPTION is the practical, easiest, cheapest, most compassionate, societal beneficial way to have that family. BUT people spend years, dollars, and emotions to get one or both genetic lines of the parents involved. Explain that as desiring a family instead of wanting to extend your own genes.

Cover that, and we can continue with Introductory Freud==its just that basic.

Why not look it up and get back to us.

That statement makes no sense at all. You are saying that sex workers make $7000-$8000 for turning an undefined number of tricks. So?

Plumbers also make make $7000-$8000 for doing an undefined number of jobs. What’s your point?

EGO is mostly a socially negative characteristic, but the desire to reproduce naturally or by your own genes is no more a character flaw than your skin colour.

There is more than just one method to pursue “love of family” without involving EGO. Naturally growing your own has the most “appeal” as we can’t help what we are born for. IVF seems the logical next choice, where a woman’s eggs and her husband’s sperm are used (95% of cases)… followed by IVF where the egg or sperm is donated anon.

Again, ego may enter the equation for some messed up individuals, but that is as probably as rare as egocentric assholes who also have a reproduction deficiency.

My sister went through the IVF process after losing her natural unborn child at 8.5 months and not being able to conceive after that, and they ended up adopting. Result… great kid and a wonderful family unit.

Will some busy body? Of course.

Call it whatever you want, but not love of family (alone).