All thats left is that your stupidity about the settlers is contested.

A full FAIL on your part==but given your position, about the best you could do.

BTW–what is your “solution” for the Israel/Palestine question? I’d love to hear it.

Yes, they support us but we cannot control them OR condemn those actions, promise to bring the culprits to justice but do absolutely nothing.

Sounds like the Israeli settlers too!

These governments order this radical groups to do their deed and be free of any wrongdoing and of any attacks that may come from those actions. Even act as goodwill parts on the conflict by volunteering as mediators.

Those same tactics are being used in Latin America as well. In venezuela, there are many non-governemnt storm groups that are directed by the government against anybody that is not “in love” with it. Obviously, come time for reprievals, the government says one of two stories: Yes, they support us but we cannot control them OR condemn those actions, promise to bring the culprits to justice but do absolutely nothing.

And Venezuela is not the only one were this things happen.

I wonder how those extreme muslim tactics came into latin america…not!

What that means is that Hamas would not fire (they stopped) and that they would try to make other groups stop. That last point is debatable. But, you of course, can see a 1 and a 0. There is nothing in-between which betrays your youthful ignorance. You don’t live there, so you cannot claim that they did not “endure” to stop other groups. Have you seen footage of Israel settlers attacking Palestinians on their own land? Denounced by their own Israeli government? And there are countless reports of the Israeli military standing by watching while the Palestinians are attacked and beaten by the settlers. No, I imagine you’ve never read such reports. Fox News doesn’t generally report on such truths. You’ll get it from Israeli newspapers if you knew how to use the Internet to try and understand a conflict from more than the side that your mommy tells you.
And aggregate link for you…
http://www.google.ca/search?q=settlers+attack+palestinians&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
and one more.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/938238.html

But, since that’s against your beliefs in right and wrong in the conflict, you’ll look for a semantic reason why they might be justified…

A country can exist or it cannot. But the people do not change. I know you don’t understand history, but it was the Western white people that put the Jews in ovens. Not the Arabs. Sephardic jews have been a part of the Middle East since… well… Moses. As Ben Gurion said, which you fail to comprehend “We stole their land.”

Now, as for your moral relatavisim which you claim I wish to deny the existence of… First off, you know what a sword is. It has two sharp sides. Each one cuts. George Orwell has a quote which I think will relate to this perfectly.
“All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts.
A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side … The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them” — George Orwell

So, your moral relativism can cut on both sides of the fray. And, as another point about old Chris…. he was a huge proponent of Water boarding. He talked shit about it up and down the circuit about how great it was and it wasn’t that bad. Until he volunteered to get waterboarded himself. He cracked within two seconds. He quickly refuted his earlier stance. So, you see bobbo… when you’re wrong its sometimes hard to see. With the right understanding, you might be able to change your view. And that’s actually a very good thing.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808

And again, finally, you pump up Israel like their are infallible. I like to take the point of objectivity. You can’t look at the crucible of the conflict and say, “they threw rockets at them.” and cut it there. Its easily refuted, as I have done many times already. But, you like the intellectualism and wisdom to view a conflict dispassionately. And this is why you keep looking for your “I’m right!” argument, which you will never find. I never said I supported Israel. I never said I supported Hamas either. What I have been trying to explain to you is that this conflict is bigger than you can imagine, the roots of it are dug down from 1917, and a snippet of “they attacked us” is not an answer to a problem. As an American, a very typical one at that, you fail to understand the breadth of history.

Bobbo… you can’t win this argument. If neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians can solve the debate, what makes you think that a teenage like you can even begin to answer it?

Truth, morality and ethics are very flexible. They are not absolutes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-B87fhzCiw&feature=related

“Hamas had promised to stop firing at Israeli civilian targets AND TO ENDURE THAT OTHER GROUPS WOULD NOT FIRE EITHER”

Did you miss that, not understand that, or open up another can of NT-Jlap?

Why don’t you address the key point of relevance? Hamas from day one and right now has declared itself set on the goal of wiping Israel off the face of the map. If Hamas laid down its arms, there would be no firing. If Israel laid down its arms, there would be another Holocaust.

heh, heh, heh. I wonder if the Palestinians/Hamas/et al bring this same intellectual rigor to their tactical military planning? Hey FT-Jlap==just how high up in Hamas are you?

Can you imagine if Israel and Palestine worked together to solve these issues instead of each side on eggshells just waiting for the sound of a broken twig to start up again.

Bzzzt. Wrong answer McFly.

With that many rockets, in that small of an area, over that length of time, requires tacit approval of the local gov’t.

One of the most important points that you miss, being 17 and all, is that it wasn’t a GOVERNMENT OPERATION that was launching the missiles. The government, Hamas, agreed to the ceasefire. Israel moved into Gaza as a government operation. See, this is a very important distinction. VERY important. When a government authorizes an action, it goes on record and becomes de facto policy. And this is from your own link…
“Hamas had promised to stop firing at Israeli civilian targets and to ensure that other groups would not fire either, while Israel promised to cease military operations in the Gaza Strip and to enable safe passage of goods between Gaza and Israel.

During the six months missiles were still fired at Israeli civilian targets, sent from terrorist organizations. The number was significantly less than before, however. Israel responded with military operations against the missile launching squads, and closed passages between Gaza and Israel. Friday Dec. 19 was the end of the six month cease fire, and intensive firing started again.”

Notice that Hamas was NOT responsible for the attacks. Other radicals were. Let me make an analogy for you;
Since Bill Clinton and the democrats were in power when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma building, Bill Clinton and the democrats were responsible.

When Israel disengaged from Gaza, they blockaded the country… Everything was restricted… aid, food, water, electricity; from land, sea and air. That is a de facto act of war, as you yourself agree to.

So, go ahead and trademark your little quips. They’re as nonsensicle as you’re becoming. You know, I can actual see you furiously trying to put something, anything, together that could remotely challenge logic.

But returning to the “first question” of who threw the first punch. We covered that already at post #53. To recap: Hamas launched missiles, rockets, and mortars into Israel but no one was killed so this is supposed to be viewed as not a violation of the cease fire. BUT Israel blows up a tunnel, no one is killed, and that is the first punch? More T-Lap. Well Done.

I did read one article that talked about a total of around 1200 rockets being launched into Israel since Gaza was unilaterally vacated by Israel. Came out to bout 2-3 rockets per day. Yes, not all fired by Hamas but rather by “other terrorists.”

I can’t find that article now, even searching my History file, but here is less authoritative article saying Hamas launched rockets ((not that it is needed as YOUR LINK at #53 admits they launched rockets)): http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/content/view/9483/

In the end, your argument is a distraction. There is every moral authority needed to attack any government that has proclaimed it wants to “wipe you from the face of the map.” That includes Hamas, Iran, Al Quada and anyone else.

The notion that you want peace in the context of wanting to kill the other side is – - – - – - T-Lap.

Its so dysfunctional, calling it “thinking” is really misleading. I revoke my copyright, and denote this type of argument as “NOT THINKING-Just Like a Palestinian” or “NT-Jlap” (Copyright, Bobbo)

Well, I know WHY Germany, but most Western countries couldn’t give a rats ass for the Jews. In fact, that’s why Western countries were the cause of the problem. And, being the cynic that I am, I am sure ALL the western countries are happy to keep the jews somewhere off their pur lain land.

But, if you mean to carve up Germany as part of reparations, I don’t think that would have worked out as well as it might sounds. Afterall, what would you do with the Sephardic jews? Move them to Germany too?

And in fact, Germany has the fastest growing Jewish population in the West now.

Are you serious? You don’t know why Germany?

>>What I DON’T see so clearly, is why this
>>conflict is America’s business.

Hebe lobbyists. {wink} The Palestinians don’t have much of a presence on K Street.