A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in. Curiously you never see or hear this stuff anywhere and only occasionally on FOX.
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# 1 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 10:56 am
This is like showing a crucifix to a vampire.
Waiting for the “false” cries any second now.
# 2 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Bullshit.
The White House proposal was to remove oversight to the Treasury Department.
Barney Frank, as were most Democrats, in favor of helping poorer people get home ownership. They were not then, nor now, ever pushing fraudulent mortgages.
The financial collapse was not caused by the poorer income mortgages, it was caused by people losing their well paying jobs (usually to outsourcing) and being unable to pay their mortgages causing locally depressed housing prices. This escalated when gas prices hit over $4.00 a gallon.
In 2003 Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape and not holding what later became known as “Toxic Securities”.
In 2003 the House was securely in the hands of the Republicans. Frank did not have the power to stall, let alone defeat, any legislation. This bill died because it was a bad bill that would have removed what regulation and oversight there was for the neo-con interpretation of oversight.
So go ahead and blame Frank and the Democrats. It will make your little peckers stiffen.
# 3 Randomized said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:03 am
I didn’t know that Wednesday was Wdnesday in Canada.
# 4 sargasso said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Fox, masquerading as a news channel, again. But getting most of it right.
# 5 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:10 am
It’s all true.
The wreaking of our financial system, from the trade deficit to the housing crisis to the financial meltdown, starts at the Democratic doorstep. Yep, the Dems created this financial mess but cowardly won’t own up to it.
The big mistake for the Republicans was not pushing back hard enough, and eventually going along with the flow (a trillion dollar war, anyone?)
And now Obama want to print more money to cover more government spending programs which probably won’t help the economy, but will certainly devalue the dollar even worse than it already is, leading to huge increases in gas pricing and rampant inflation. (Remember the Carter years?)
BTW, love the quote “Senator Obama did not weigh in on the matter”.
Is there anything Senator Obama did weigh in on?
# 6 bill said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:14 am
SNAFU!
And after listening to Barney this morning on TV… well, it’s ‘SAME OLD SAME OLD STUFF ALL OVER AGAIN’
Nothing will happen. No one has the ‘juice’ to get anything done.
Oh, they are supposed to sell all of their jets..
I guess they could buy some ‘personal ones’ however…
If your elders are still alive talk to them what it was like during the ‘depression’ … listen carefully.
# 7 amodedoma said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Lot’s of politicians have been taking campaign contributions from fannie and freddie Mac, including McCain and Obama, sort of explains how they got the bailout bill passed so rapidly. Obviously deregulation of a gse is just like putting the kids in charge of the cooking jar, an invitation for abuse.
# 8 Jägermeister said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Eight years and Bush couldn’t do anything to stop it? *LMAO* It’s not like there weren’t any warning signs…
# 9 freddybobs68k said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Its on fox news.
The mouth piece for republican propaganda. As they consult with the white house on news stories…
So what part am I supposed to believe? Except that republicans would like this explanation to be true.
Honestly I’m sure democrats have their share of blame. But the idea it’s ‘all their fault’ when bush and his cronies have been in power for 8 years – the years when all this happened. Either makes the Bush Republicans _in power_ either totally useless and ineffectual, or part of the problem. Either way they get at minimum 50% of the blame, probably a lot more.
So for now I’m with Mr Fusion.
# 10 brian t said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Looking at this from outside the USA: WHO CARES? There’s nothing to win in the Blame Game.
# 11 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:26 am
#2 Mr. Fusion, stop proving you know nothing, please!
The housing crisis didn’t happen because of job loss (Ugg, you can’t be that stupid to believe this!).
The job loss happened because of the banking crisis begun by the collapse of the lending market caused by toxic securities backed by the bad housing loans!
Did you follow that? No?
Ok, lets see if you can follow this:
The housing crisis started because of the readjustment of the Adjustable Rate Mortgages. (ARMS)
When the ARMS readjusted, people who should never have been permitted the loan in the first place lost their homes because they could not afford the payments anymore.
This resulted in huge bad debt and losses to the underwriting banks,
Which led to the banks having to declare huge losses,
Which led to the banks reducing or eliminating short term loans (not enough solvency),
Which caused businesses which rely on short term loans (which most businesses need) to reduce staffing,
Which led to huge layoffs.
Do you understand now? No?
Because of Democratic blocking of financial lending practice reform, institutions such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did not get the proper oversight which oversight would have raised the question, “what happens when someone’s house payment goes from a barely affordable $900/month to $1500/month?”.
Now we know.
# 12 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:36 am
It’s just amazing, the depth of self-delusion of the right-wing wackos.
In their little fantasy world it was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who endlessly pushed the bogus Iraq war.
In their little fantasy world it was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who deregulated anything that moves.
So naturally, in their little fantasy world, all the problems we’re facing now are the fault of the Democrats, not the Republicans.
Riiiiiiiiiight.
# 13 Lou said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Seems like there is blame for many here.
The rating Co’s have to take alot of the blame though. They were the gatekeepers.
# 14 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:55 am
#11, Ah Yea,
The housing crisis didn’t happen because of job loss
I didn’t know we had a “housing crises. I thought it was a “financial crises”. Which in large part was caused by the value of mortgage securities losing their value because the value of the houses had depreciated to less than their paper was worth. When people could not pay their mortgages, because their jobs had disappeared, they defaulted, causing the whole house of cards to tumble.
The job loss happened because of the banking crisis begun by the collapse of the lending market caused by toxic securities backed by the bad housing loans!
Did you follow that? No?
Say what? As long as the people were paying the mortgages the system worked. When overpriced homes glutted the local markets that depressed the entire mortgage field. As energy prices fueled further job losses, more and more people defaulted. The crash was not caused by fraudulent mortgages and securities, but it did fan the flames of the crash.
Hint for you. Jobless people seldom have the means to pay high price mortgages. Or $4.00 a gal for gas.
When the ARMS readjusted, people who should never have been permitted the loan in the first place lost their homes because they could not afford the payments anymore.
Gee, that is similar to what I wrote
They were not then, nor now, ever pushing fraudulent mortgages.
When the ARMS readjusted, people who should never have been permitted the loan in the first place lost their homes because they could not afford the payments anymore.
While too many home owners were given ARMs, they were not the significant cause of the collapse. As long as there were enough people paying on their mortgages, the security holders would remain solvent.
Then you continue with a circular argument that is based upon false assumptions.
Because of Democratic blocking of financial lending practice reform, institutions such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did not get the proper oversight which oversight would have raised the question, “what happens when someone’s house payment goes from a barely affordable $900/month to $1500/month?”
Please link to a source that backs up your contention that the minority party in Congress halted any financial reform of the FMs.
Then show us how that proposed oversight would have prevented the practices that led to the crises.
Then please show us how many people had toxic ARMs compared to those who lost their homes because of job loss.
…
The entire crises was because the value of the paper held by the banks was worth less than their face value. That was caused by the homes glutting the market and selling for less than face value, thus depreciating the market value of all nearby homes.
There is no evidence that the FMs were purchasing or holding any of these “toxic securities” in 2003. They were under the supervision of the Federal Reserve and FDIC at the time. Agencies pushing the “Regulations and oversight is bad” crowd.
# 15 stopher said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Ah_Yea, Democrats weren’t the ones who bundled the loans and came up with obscure derivatives that multiplied their effect. You’re kind of glossing over the impact of the decoupling of risk in your little blame game.
# 16 Arous said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Who would have thought that it was all Barny Frank’s fault!
# 17 qsabe said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
More FOX republican bullshit as they exercise their prerogative to serve as hindrances to any democratic attempt to fix what they screwed up. Didn’t they do that during the first depression they created in 1929.
# 18 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Ok, fusion.
Since understanding written text isn’t your forte, here are a couple of videos for you.
They clearly show how we got into this mess in the first place.
Not that I’m counting on you understanding this, either.
http://tinyurl.com/7dxhwb
http://tinyurl.com/743fvk
I can’t dumb it down any further.
# 19 Dallas said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Cheney says “nobody saw this coming”.
..It must be the democrats fault since Bush was ‘busy’.
http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=BUSINESS&ID=565505600965184068
# 20 bob said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
1) blanket dismissal of Fox is stupid. Stop it. They are biased, as are ALL (no exceptions, _ever_) news sources. That does not mean that if they say it it isn’t true. Despite the convenience and fun to some of endlessly asserting that it does.
2) The Bush administration was in power the whole eight years, but Congress hasn’t been republican that whole time – so don’t oversimplify.
3) The clips presented are pretty persuasive – all you scoffers, let’s see the comparable clips from your favorite biased sources (CNN, for example) showing how various Democrats and bureaucrats were sounding the alarm and how various Republicans were poo-pooing the issue. I’ll be waiting.
# 21 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Ah_yea says: I can’t dumb it down any further.
Nah… it’s too easy.
# 22 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
#20 Bob
Blanket dismissal of Faux is not stupid. There is plenty of evidence that they are indeed a mouthpiece of the Republican party. No other major media outlet could by any stretch of the imagination be called a mouthpiece of the Democratic party.
# 23 MikeN said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Party line vote in the Senate Committee with a threatened filibuster shut down the reforms. Republicans should have pushed harder, just like with Social Security reform.
# 24 MikeN said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I’m Christopher Lee and I say it is all Republicans’ fault. This is due to XY&Z. If you disagree, please post hard evidence to the contrary with links, and then some more links proving your first links are correct.
# 25 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
#22 Phydeau, oh, come on!
You’re kidding, aren’t you? This is a joke, right?
MSNBC?? New York Times?? CNN?? BBC??
Also,
#20 bob said “Congress hasn’t been republican that whole time”.
Exactly right. Someone with the voice of sanity in this insane blog.
When the vast extent of the corruption and danger became known, the Democrats were in power in Congress and adamantly blocked any and all attempts to remedy this oncoming crisis because they – being the staunch socialist they are – didn’t want to anger their support base.
# 26 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
#23 MikeN. I agree. The big failure of the Republicans was that they didn’t push hard enough.
As I see it, there was a deal with the devil here. I don’t push on reforming Freddie Mae if you don’t oppose my war in Iraq.
Losers, all.
# 27 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
(Freddie Mae – Freddie Mac + Fannie Mae, just to be clear)
# 28 BillM said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
#20
I saw a story on Fox yesterday showing a police officer in Oakland shooting a restrained young man. If I saw it on ABC, NBC, CBS or CNN I would be sick about it but it was on FOX…..must be bullsh–.
# 29 AlGoreLeonia said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
If Barney Frank or any person with a “D” behind their name shit on Mr Fusion’s forehead while he slept, he would awaken and upon discovery, declare that it’s for the good of the people and was done out of great concern….Now you see why Mr Fusion and those like him are called, “useful idiots”…Have you ever seen such absolute, blind, lock step adherence to an ideology no matter what the issue or evidence?
# 30 GF said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
There is plenty of blame to go around. Needless to say regulation was at the crux. Frank didn’t want regulation of Fannie Mae and Gramm on commodity futures, a.k.a. the the Enron Loophole. Why Clinton signed the Enron loophole into law is a mystery to me.
# 31 gmknobl said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Geesh. Red herring right off the bat. Misdirection and deception. What the WH proposed would actually take power away from the people that should have been regulating things and put it in a separate place where the neocons would have wreaked their havoc unabated. And what many wanted back then was to use what money was available to help low income families get mortgages but not with high interest balloon plans which would blow up in their faces later.
However, many neo-cons and neo-libs still felt deregulation of any sort was a bad thing, something the Bush people felt too and thus pushed for DEregulation. This type of thing has been going on since Nixon folks and none of it has turned out nice (I’m sure there are some SMALL exceptions.)
Blame can be spread but most belongs to neo-cons followed by neo-libs. Any whitewash rewriting of history as Fox does here to make it look like Bush was trying to prevent this is just as a stated a whitewash and BS!
# 32 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
#29
Have you ever seen such a clear example of projecting one’s faults onto others? Classic. The Bush worshipers defined absolute, blind, lock step adherence to an ideology no matter what the issue or evidence.
Of course, if you read the polls now, most of them claim to have voted for the other guy — no one want to admit voting for Bush now.
# 33 MikeN said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Credit default swaps and the like are good things. It basically means you are taking insurance against your loans going bad. Of course, the insurer has to have the money to back it up, and AIG didn’t.
# 34 AlGoreLeonia said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
#32 self identifies as another useful idiot…
# 35 locomotivebreath1901 said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
“Curiously you never see or hear this stuff anywhere and only occasionally on FOX.”
Are you implying, sir, that there is media bias??!
# 36 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
#34 AlGoreLeonia
Keep up the clueless arrogance, pal. Notice who’s in the White House and controls Congress now?
Yes, keep it up, and the Democrats will be in power for a long time. Of course, they’ll have to be, in order to undo the damage the Republicans have wrought.
And you’re still projecting — you are indeed a useful idiot. With your bluster and blather and arrogance, you’ll help keep the Republican party a minority, as it should be for a long time. We can only hope the Republican party leadership is just like you…
# 37 JFC said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I guess all our problems were Barny Frank’s fault. And you people who gladly pile on with your over simplistic “yeah!”s are why the country is so divided. What exactly do you get out of demonizing Frank? You can’t possibly be so naive as to think that he alone is solely responsible for the financial crisis. Honestly Mr. Dvorak, it seems you inch every day towards irrelevance.
# 38 AlGoreLeonia said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
#36: You and fusion are useful idiots that owned by the democratic party. The proof is in your posting here today carrying the water for the crook Barney Frank who’s boyfriend was a Fannie Mae Director when Barney was fighting any oversight of Fannie Mae in 2003. Hmmm…wonder why?….But, you are a GOOD useful idiot….
# 39 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Keep the faith, AlGoreLeonia. Don’t ever change.
# 40 Charles said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Having… a hard time typing… stilling spinning… in my chair.
# 41 Angel H. Wong said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
The funniest thing about these right wingers blaming Democrats for this whole mess is that you guys had two consecutive terms to fix this mess and yet you did nothing.
# 42 AlGoreLeonia said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#41: Is Democratic Useful Idiot #3
# 43 Phydeau said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
You go gal, AlGoreLeonia. Woohoo! You are so smart and us dumb libruls are so dumb. Must be hard for you to be humble, you being so smart and everything. Golly.
# 44 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Ho hum. Let’s take something that’s the fault of a lot of people (most of them Repubs) and blame it all on Barney Frank, because he’s a funny-looking homo-secksual.
And then to back it up, let’s show a Faux Spews “news” story.
This is why nobody with an IQ over 40 watches Faux Spews. Even on the rare occasions when they’re promoting a point of view that I agree with, they’re STILL full of shit. Everything on that station is an editorial piece. They pick their ax, and then they grind it to death.
The amazing thing is that they can actually promote Fair and Balanced™ as their motto, with a straight face. I guess that means everybody on the channel is bellowing neocon nonsense, then they have that little milquetoast who’s on with Hannity squeaking out his left-wing opinions.
They reported; I decided: There’s more objectivity on the Op-Ed page than on Faux Spews.
# 45 Breetai said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Ya know, I always get annoyed and pissed off about Republicans and them being idiots and in denial about WMD’s in Iraq. Now I’ve got something new to be annoyed about The other side.
# 46 Angel H. Wong said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
# 42 AlGoreLeonia
Oh yeah, and tell us what useful thing the Republicans have done these 8 years so far apart from proving that when you can call a middle-aged white Republican male a homo there’s a good chance he is.
# 47 Somebody_Else said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
“A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in.”
I knew it was those damn Canadians! We need to liberate them immediately.
# 48 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#44–Mustard==I hope you don’t become a democrat apologist in the same mode as the repuglicans you so correctly admonish.
1. Frank DOES share a LARGE PART of the blame here. He was the chair of the fricken committee in charge of the Freddies. Doesn’t matter that his motives weren’t as putrid as the normal repuglican.
2. An item being reported on Faux Spews is irrelevant. Going off correctly on an irrelevant tangent is still going off on a tangent.
Barney Frank, like all incumbents, should be – - – - – - – - VOTED OUT OF OFFICE – - – with a special item read into the congressional record that he stands for the type of WILD INTERFERENCE with the free market and IRRESPONSIBLE lack of regulation that is the very heart and soul of what being a congressman is supposed to be.
I can even give BushtheRetard a bit of a slide here because he is such an idiot, but Barney had to know on some level EXACTLY what he was doing===and he just didn’t care.
Power corrupts==which is why you have to VOTE ALL THE ENCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
# 49 ramuno said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
So five years ago, Frank didn’t see the system failing but supposedly the president wanted to do something then to head off the problems we have now.
Then why didn’t he do something? He controlled the White House and the House and the Senate.
Hind sight is fun.
# 50 Jeebers said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Bush’s push for better regulation of GSE’s was fallacious. Here’s the other side of the story from the NY times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21admin.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=todayspaper&adxnnlx=1229886485-XYjB1wCEX+2kI90mVqbvCQ
# 51 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#44 – Bobbo
I hope your irrational exuberance for voting everyone out of office isn’t going to lead you to blame everyone for everything, whether they’re to blame or not.
Barney Frank is to blame for some of the stuff-up related to the Freddies. Certainly not all of it. The Freddies are not single-handedly responsible for the housing meltdown. The housing meltdown was not single-handedly responsible for the economic meltdown.
So there’s plenty of fingers to point, but to point them all at Barney Frank is about as lame as it gets.
See Jeebers’ NYT article for a more rational look at who’s to blame for what.
And my issue regarding Faux Spews was separate and distinct from whether or not I agree with the point they were hammering mercilessly, or whether I believe that Barney Frank is responsible for all our economic woes.
My point was that Faux Spews NEVER just reports on a story. They have an ax they want to grind, and then the report the news on that story in such a way as to sharpen that ax.
To compare the NYT (non-Editorial page) reporting to anything resembling Faux Spews (as Bob did in #20) is just ridiculous. Even on issues where I’m on the other side of the fence from the NYT (like gun control), I find their reporting to be about as fair and balanced as it gets. When I see the shit they pump out on Faux Spews, it almost makes me want to become a gun control nut.
# 52 Paddy-O said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
“A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in.”
Yep, 2 years overseeing the criminal actions, all the while telling the public all is well.
Hang him.
# 53 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Mustard==should Barney Frank retain his congressional membership or be voted out of office=====because of his involvement in the Sub Prime Mess, or not?
# 54 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
#52 – Paddy-RAMBO
>>Hang him.
Whoa, the testosterone is flowing today, huh Paddy-RAMBO? You musta gotten all het up thinking about strutting down the promenade with those pearl-handled six-shooters, piling up liberal bodies as you went!
If you want to hang Barney Frank, you must want to slowly torture Dumbya, waterboarding him, tasing him, cutting him and pouring Drano® into his wounds, attaching electrodes to his genitals, inserting an electric probe into his anus, and finally strapping him into Ol’ Sparky and zapping him until his eyes bug out and smoke comes out of his ears.
Let the punishment fit the crime.
# 55 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
As I called it. All libs acting like Dracula seeing a crucifix. Denial is a bitch.
Also funny to see Frank talk today as those he labeled as “fatalists” way back when
#12 I see your confusion is not confined to social subjects.
# 56 Paddy-O said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
# 54 Mister Mustard said, “If you want to hang Barney Frank, …”
Hang the lot of ‘em.
You have a problem with that?
# 57 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#55–pedro==when you say “all” libs==is that your real understanding of the issue, or just lazy editing of your first impulse?
# 58 Mr Diesel said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Mustard, I’m going to agree with part of what you said. We can place the blame squarely on the dipshits in Congress (both sides and I don’t care which side it is weighted on).
What do you call 535 Congressman at the bottom of the sea?
A good start
(That’s a joke for the humor impaired of which there are a lot of on here.)
What shocked me the most about this is that someone actually started a thread with Fox News.
# 60 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Only a power mad authoritarian would post “Hitler” as his only contribution.
You can do better. Give it one or two posting yourself before misusing your position.
# 61 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#57 Just the observation of those labeled or behaving as liberals in here who automatically threw their arms in front of their eyes at the video, hissed and cried foul.
One thing’s for sure, I wasn’t dissapointed. I knew how’d they react and they delivered.
Both sides are to blame for this economical fiasco, but to see the libs in here avoid any hint of reality…one has to laugh in order not to cry.
Cheney will hopefully be out soon. Frank will keep on touting his “willingness” to fix something “he has nothing to be blamed” for.
There’s something about those Massachusetts Demagogues that makes me shiver.
# 62 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#59 You win.
# 63 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#61–pedro==you didn’t answer the question at all.
For emphasis, I “bobbo” am a liberal. I post that Barney Frank should be voted out of office because of his malfeasance.
So–when you posted “ALL” liberal refuse to deal with Democratic responsibility for the sub-prime mess, were you on solid reflection, overstating the case or are you as biased as you pose yourself to be against?
Simple.
# 64 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
#56 – Paddy-RAMBO
>>Hang the lot of ‘em.
>>You have a problem with that?
Shit not, not if you’re doing the hanging, Paddy-RAMBO! I’ve got too much living left to do for your to be piling up my liberal body with the other liberals.
Do you have a problem with the somewhat harsher punishment for Dumbya, given the severity of his crimes?
# 65 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Don’t be a hypocrit Mister Mustard. You correctly harangue a few here for their failure to back up their opinions, now you do the same.
Mustard==should Barney Frank retain his congressional membership or be voted out of office=====because of his involvement in the Sub Prime Mess, or not?
# 66 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Mustard:
“When I see the shit they pump out on Faux Spews, it almost makes me want to become a gun control nut.”
LOL! That made my day. Thanks!
# 67 Paddy-O said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
# 64 Mister Mustard said, “Do you have a problem with the somewhat harsher punishment for Dumbya, given the severity of his crimes?”
Nope
# 68 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
#63 Thing is, I don’t consider you nor your comments as blind liberal. You, unlike others, think for yourself and avoid shutting reality off.
# 69 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
#65 – Bobbo
Wtf are you talking about? What “opinion” did I fail to back up?
As to Barney Frank, eh. I think he’s less malignant than some, more malignant than others. I wasn’t a big fan of his even before the Mae/ Mac mess. If he were representing my Congressional district, I’d give his competition a good look.
As to him being single-handedly responsible for(or even holding a majority stake in) the mess our country is in now is just silly.
# 70 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
#60 I guess he just said that this blog post degraded to the point as to get Hitler into it. Isn’t that one of the Internet’s discussions rules?
# 71 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Frank was just the spokeperson for those Demagogues behind the “give credit to the people” initiative that ended up in the mess we have today.
# 72 moose1967 said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
**Both sides..I said both sides son, were to blame as well as the banks.
Take it back to the Clinton administration when the pushed for more low income home ownership. The established the sub-prime mortgages. Yes these are adjustable but not all adjustable mortgages are evil. The lenders were also at fault for telling mostly uneducated (as to the mortgage world) buyers they could afford more home than they originally thought never cluing them in to the bombshell that awaited. These payments ballooned and buyers couldn’t pay the note. Banks then in turn packages these bad mortgages with good ones and sold these as investments to banks. Mr Franks said there was nothing wrong with the FMs. He was also one of the biggest complainers that the Bush administration didn’t do enough to prevent this. Blame is abundant enough to go around several times. No one group is solely to blame but spend more time blaming the others than they do trying to fix the problem.
# 73 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
#68–pedro==a great compliment, thank you. Still, I think you would agree that “not a blind liberal” is still a liberal and therefor use of “all” liberals is over broad. So simple to admit to the error, yet you don’t do it. Likewise, other intelligent posters fail to admit to simple error==Mustard, Dvorak. There is a kind of “blindness” going on, its not restricted to Tex Ass.
So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime mess when NO ONE is doing that.
You see the dangers of thinking like a zealot? Subtlety is lost. Just like calling Hitler without explanation==misses the subtlety of what is still alive and being discussed. Much better to inject a comment to re-energize the discussion in t he right direction, if such a thing there be.
I’m against lazy zealotry even from people I admire, even when it agrees with me.
# 74 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Bobbo, ‘dro, & Ah Yea,
I keep seeing Barney Frank being referred to as responsible for the “Sub-Prime mess”. Please, could someone give some reference and citation to show his responsibility. And I don’t mean linking to some hack job video.
Ah Yea,
If you have a comment then make it. Linking to asswipe videos does nothing and I won’t waste my time with them. Post YOUR thoughts. Cite facts, not opinionated bullshit. I know you are better than that.
# 75 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
AlGoreLeonia
I see Jimy Heel and f*ckedup has decided to post under a new handle. Whoa, a novel way to avoid all that negativity you garner each time.
It doesn’t change the fact you are a troll.
# 76 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
#73 You’re correct, I should have written all blind libs instead of all libs.
Still, I found the Hitler post funny.
# 77 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
#74–Fusion==if I provide a link that indicates “some” responsibility on Barney’s part, will you spend the entire post calling me an “effen idiot” or will you promise to at least make a passing reference to specific issue being discussed?
# 78 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#73 – Bobbo
>>Likewise, other intelligent posters fail to
>>admit to simple error==Mustard, Dvorak.
You’er becoming incoherent. What error did I fail to admit to?
And I know you love to play with punctuation like a baby with Play-Doh, but please try to pull yourself together on occasion. When I see my name on the far side of a double equals sign with John C Dvorak, I’d be interested in having the equation translated into Earthling Speak.
>>So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone
>>blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime
>>mess when NO ONE is doing that.
Whoa! Chill out, Bobbolina! Have a Cosmo and a little weed! Where is my “constant refrain of everyone blaming Barney Frank”? I’m not blaming him, so obviously not EVERYONE is doing that. As to other, read some of the posts. Read, if you will, the heading to this entire topic: “A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in. Curiously you never see or hear this stuff anywhere and only occasionally on FOX.”, with Barney Frank’s face in the graphic. I haven’t seen John C Dvorak devolve into unintelligible gibberish yet, so I take that to mean that HE is blaming Barney Frank, with many of the usual neocons following suit.
# 79 The0ne said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I want blame identified and hopefully action taken upon them legally. It’s a lot of money for mistakes these idiots have risked. I don’t are if you’re Rep or Dem, someone has to answer for this catastrophe IMO. If you can afford to shell your money for these people then fine don’t respond. I for one absolutely hate it.
# 80 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
#52, Cow-Paddy,
Yep, 2 years overseeing the criminal actions, all the while telling the public all is well.
Don’t you mean two years of being led astray by the Bush Administrations and CEOs? How many of them appeared before Congress saying there were problems? Gee, it seems to me that they were all telling us how great the economy was.
I realize you aren’t too bright and don’t have a good grasp on how the Federal Government works. I’ll try to explain it briefly.
The Congress makes the laws. The Executive Branch(AKA the White House or the Administration) is responsible for executing the laws passed by Congress. Under their oversight responsibility, Congress regularly receives reports from the Administration detailing how their department(s) and the law is performing.
While Congress may hold hearings at any time, most are routinely held to get updates from those who know and understand the system best, the Administration. During most of the Bush Administration the Congress was routinely rebuffed when it demanded testimony and documents from the Administration Other testimony has been shown to less than truthful.
So unless you can show that Barney Frank was in possession of documentation that the economy was in the condition it was in then it is just plain silly to accuse him of criminal activity.
But then reasoned thought has never been your forte’.
# 81 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
#78–Mustard==
1. Regarding admitting to error. I have made 3-4 requests for you to do so and you have refused every time. Thats not the whole universe but I have never seen you do it. If you can come up with an exception, that is what it would be.
2. Punctuation. Actually you are right. Dvorak has admitted to errors in posting headlines and what not. I overstated that one. I made a mistake. Sorry John–I was assuming your usual lack of engagement as a continuing argument you were right to call Hitler rather than do something just a bit more. Again==I made a mistake.
3. Mustard regarding Barney==you reversed the argument and have it wrong. Your post #44–”Let’s take something that’s the fault of a lot of people (most of them Repubs) and blame it all on Barney Frank.” /// No one did that.
# 82 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
#80 – Mr. Fusion
You may know more about how the Federal government works than Paddy-RAMBO, but I’ll bet he can kick your ass when it comes to arranging statuettes on Condi’s desk.
# 83 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
I see some of us have aired our mistakes. Now, let’s all hug and share a secret.
# 84 MikeN said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
This is as if Barney Frank and Dodd had said in early 2003 that there were no WMD in Iraq, and the Republicans then said that Bush was right, and there is no proof that he was wrong.
# 85 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
#82, Mustard,
That and stocking shelves at Radio Shack.
# 86 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Here’s a link proving the reaction to this video http://tinyurl.com/8fdzm4
# 87 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
#81 – Bobbo
You’re getting tiressome, and it’s getting to the point where it stops being worth my while to get out the decoder ring and try to figure out what you’re saying.
I’ll give it one more shot, though.
>>I have made 3-4 requests for you to do so
>>and you have refused every time.
Could you refresh my memory? I’m sorry if I’m not going to admit that I failed to admit that I was wrong on something you thought I was wrong about last summer.
>>2.
It’s too much work to figure out what you’re saying there, Bobster. If you can re-phrase the point, I’ll give it a shot.
>>Your post #44–”Let’s take something that’s
>>the fault of a lot of people (most of them
>>Repubs) and blame it all on Barney
>>Frank.” /// No one did that.
Do you forget what you’re criticizing me for within minutes of the criticism? Gol.
I never said there weren’t those who blamed it all on Barney Frank. I (and I quote) “Where is my “constant refrain of everyone blaming Barney Frank”? I’m not blaming him, so obviously not EVERYONE is doing that. , in response to your allegation (and I quote) “So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime mess when NO ONE is doing that.”.
Read the caption under Frank’s picture up top. If anyone else is being blamed, I must have missed the subtle clue.
# 88 oz4me said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I have to laugh reading the posts defending one party or the other. Both are responsible for the current situations. I can not believe that you do not know this. Supporting the same people who allowed all of this is ludicrous. They count on your apathy to stay in government. Go outside the 2 party box, find some intelligent people and bring government back to serving the people. Bobbo is right- vote them out. Or Not…..
Apathy
# 89 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Mustard–I agree I’m not interested “enough” to straighten out the confusion and I would accept it is all on my side.
Re Dvoraks caption “who is really behind the mess” may be overstated==but the notion that Barney Franks role is being mostly ignored is right on target.
So, Dvorak has an excuse to exaggerate as he trolls to enflame idiots like us===but whats our excuse?
# 90 pedro said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
#8 Worse than apathy, unconsciousness.
# 91 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
#89, bobbo,
but the notion that Barney Franks role is being mostly ignored is right on target.
What role was that?
In an Oval Office meeting on March 17, however, Mr. Paulson … wanted to use the troubled companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) to unlock the frozen credit market by allowing Fannie and Freddie to buy more mortgage-backed securities from overburdened banks. To that end, Mr. Lockhart’s office planned to lift restraints on the companies’ huge portfolios
…
Mr. Paulson told Mr. Bush the companies would shore themselves up later by raising more capital.
“Can they?” Mr. Bush asked.
“We’re hoping so,” the Treasury secretary replied.
That turned out to be incorrect, and did not surprise Mr. Thomas, the Bush economic adviser. Throughout that spring and summer, he warned the White House and Treasury that, in the stark words of one e-mail message, “Freddie Mac is in trouble.” And Mr. Lockhart, he charged, was allowing the company to cover up its insolvency with dubious accounting maneuvers.
But Mr. Lockhart (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac regulator) continued to offer reassurances. In a July appearance on CNBC, he declared that the companies were well managed and “worsts were not coming to worst.” An infuriated Mr. Thomas sent a fresh round of e-mail messages accusing Mr. Lockhart of “pimping for the stock prices of the undercapitalized firms he regulates.”
Mr. Lockhart defended himself, insisting in an interview that he was aware of the companies’ vulnerabilities, but did not want to rattle markets.
“A regulator,” he said, “does not air dirty laundry in public.”
But the right wing nuts still want to blame Barney Frank.
# 93 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#50 Jeebers. That is an excellent link!
I learned quite a lot. In particular, I learned that Bush is an even greater idiot than I thought and that takes quite some doing!!!
# 94 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
#91, Another NOTE to self,
I missed a tag. The last four paragraphs should have been.
…
But Mr. Lockhart (the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac regulator) continued to offer reassurances. In a July appearance on CNBC, he declared that the companies were well managed and “worsts were not coming to worst.” An infuriated Mr. Thomas sent a fresh round of e-mail messages accusing Mr. Lockhart of “pimping for the stock prices of the undercapitalized firms he regulates.”
Mr. Lockhart defended himself, insisting in an interview that he was aware of the companies’ vulnerabilities, but did not want to rattle markets.
“A regulator,” he said, “does not air dirty laundry in public.”
But the right wing nuts still want to blame Barney Frank.
# 95 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Barney acted against regulation:
# 96 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
#95, bobbo,
Let’s look at that.
I want to begin by saying that I am glad to consider the legislation, but I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis. That is, in my view, the two government sponsored enterprises we are talking about here, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not in a crisis. We have recently had an accounting problem with Freddie Mac that has led to people being dismissed, as appears to be appropriate. I do not think at this point there is a problem with a threat to the Treasury.
So where is his “error”. What crises was there at Freddie and Fannie? Don’t just say there was, tell me what was the crises?
Mr. Bush did foresee the danger posed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored mortgage finance giants. The president spent years pushing a recalcitrant Congress to toughen regulation of the companies, but was unwilling to compromise when his former Treasury secretary wanted to cut a deal. And the regulator Mr. Bush chose to oversee them — an old prep school buddy — pronounced the companies sound even as they headed toward insolvency.
The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disastrous scenarios. And even if there were a problem, the Federal Government doesn’t bail them out. But the more pressure there is there, then the less I think we see in terms of affordable housing.
This was before Fannie and Freddie had started picking up serious amounts of “toxic debt”. They apparently assumed this debt from banks simply because of pressure from the Administration.
You also want to ignore that the proposed regulation was actual a relaxing of oversight and to be handled by the Treasury Department.
# 97 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
#89 – Bobbo
>>but the notion that Barney Franks role is
>>being mostly ignored is right on target.
It is? By whom?
I’ve been hearing people on the left, the right, and in the middle bitching about Frank since this whole sore started oozing.
If you look on The Google, there are about 500,000 hits on “Barney Frank Housing Crisis”, many of them in the New York Times and their lesbian lover, the Boston Globe.
You’re right, they don’t generally put together a mash-up of clips designed to vilify Frank like Faux Spews does, but that’s not what real news organizations do.
The wingnuts have had it in for Franks all along, as he’s an ass bandit. When this housing shit came along, it was a godsend for them. Not neccesary any longer to make sniggering allusions to the mechanical details of his sexual behavior; they could pillory him for his role in allowing the housing bubble to burst.
# 98 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
#96–Fusion==the buck does not stop at Barney Frank but a lot of loose change does. He is a congressional leader with years of responsibility to avoid exactly what did happen. He failed to stop what happened, failed to raise the alarm.
I can only do the google to find material closer to what might satisfy your agenda. Thankfully, I only need to satisfy my own:
VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
# 99 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
#98 – Bobo
>>VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
Why?
I’m quite happy with the way my Congressman is handling things, my Senators are CERTAINLY doing a better job than their competition; the one who was up for re-election this year ran against a guy in the primary who would be better suited working at Adult Toy World. I’m pretty happy with my mayor (even though he’s a Repug), and the Governor is servicable; certainly more so than his non-incumbant opponent. Why would I want to get rid of them in the first place, and why in particular would I want to vote them out for inferior candidate, for no reason other than that the replacements have less hand-on knowledge than the incumbents?
# 100 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
#98, bobbo,
VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
That is your agenda.
BUT, it doesn’t answer the question I asked “What was the crises at Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac that warranted changing their oversight to Treasury in 2002? We now know that at this time Freddie and Fannie had not been picking up the “Toxic Paper”.
You like to pressure Mustard to answer irrelevant questions, well here is a relevant question you brought up. Please answer, “what was the effen crises” ?!?!?!
He failed to stop what happened, failed to raise the alarm.
What ??? He was the ranking member. His party is in the minority. He didn’t have the power to decide how often the toilet paper was changed, how the eff is he responsible for stopping a bill in the House?
Geeze, you’re acting like Cow-Paddy here.
# 101 Winston said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
The sub-prime meltdown was simply the trigger initiating a meltdown of a financial and investment system that was and is corrupt to the core, something that becomes much more obvious when the situation becomes desperate and the cockroaches have to scurry into the light.
# 102 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
#99, Mustard,
Good comment. I’m of a like mind. Our Senators, Dem. and Rep. are both very competent and hard working. I’m less enamored with our Dem. Congressman, but he is just starting his second term. I don’t like our Rep. Governor but I am vastly outnumbered on that one. Our State Houses are split between the parties and thus often deadlocked. Many local Rep. representatives were tossed and replaced by inexperienced Dems.
But vote them all out? Ya right !!! /Sarcasm.
# 103 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
(Small print–unless “for REAL” your folks are doing a good job. Not a good job evidenced by you don’t know any thing bad. Evidenced by the pols have actually done something really good==like published the sources of all their contributions, all their pork bills, all their tax returns and investments, etc.)
Fusion–its attitudes like yours that has given us the Congress we have. Someone is “not responsible” because someone else was more responsible or whatever. Even as Barney sat as a minority member of the committee==he could have spoken out on the record and if not there then in the press. On the occasion of BushCo requesting a transition of oversight to a more lax system he said “There was nothing wrong, no crises.” Then a few years later, he applies pressure for Freddie to guarantee sub prime loans.
YOU are taking a “criminal” approach to responsibility===personal actions with proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the wrong standard. These are politicians. They are responsible for whatever happens UNLESS they clearly were taking steps to avoid it. YOUR standard gives us what we have. My standard can only be wished for as the majority are against it.
# 104 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
#103 – Bobo
My my my, you certainly have your panties in a twist over Mr. Frank.
After the Repugs’ claim that he gummed up the works when Dumbya tried to “enact new legislation” is knocked into a cocked hat (turns out what he was gumming up was a complete hand-over of the mortgage industry to Dumbya’s shills), now you want to roast him because he “didn’t do enough”.
It’s one thing to encourage banks to lend to people with less money, or to minorities. That does NOT mean throw a sucker mortgage at everyone walking in the door without a pot to piss in. I know plenty of individuals of modest means, and minorities, who live in houses they can afford, pay their mortgages on time, and everyone goes home happy. THOSE were the kind of people that were supposed to get more mortgages.
And the highly paid bankers were supposed to earn some of their high pay by separating the wheat from the chaff. A couple making $40,000/year with a decent credit history, good job history and a stable home comes in looking to buy a $70,000 home: MORTGAGE. A couple comes in with 5 marriages and 11 jobs over the past 5 years between them comes in looking for a no-down-payment ARM on an $700,000 home: NO MORTGAGE.
That’s not what they did, though. With the derivatives and the collateralized debt obligations and the default credit swaps, bankers had no vested interest in writing a “successful” mortgage beyond the time they split them out, bundled them up, and sold them off to somebody else to worry about. If the homeowners defaulted on the ARM, tfb. That was somebody else’s problem. And now it’s our problem.
You can’t stick that one on Bubble Butt Barney.
# 105 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Mustard–I agree the mortgage packaging and leveraging was mostly a Repuglican move having nothing to do with Barney. Still, to a “some” degree, what the Repugs packaged and leveraged was the subprime mortgages that Barney was responsible for “to some degree.”
Your other post quite cleverly, humorously, and rightly argued that what you were used to were people saving for years to get the 20% down payment on a house. What Barney did was arrange mortgages so that people with no money could get a 20% cash back on closing.
See the difference?
# 106 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Bobbo,
Please don’t pull a Cow-Paddy here. You brought up the “crises” bull, so what was this “crises” that Barney Frank ignored?
I’m not sure how many times you need to be asked but it is a relevant question and YOU brought it up. This is the third request. Please quit pussy footing around and explain why Frank ignored a crises (when none was evident), or was responsible because the oversight wasn’t there, or the Administration officials lied to the Congress.
# 107 Gary, the dangerous infidel said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
It should be noted that Barney Frank was a minority party member of the House Financial Services Committee until January of 2007, and only at which time did he became chairman. Weren’t the horses out of the barn by 2007? It seems to me that no matter how much we want to vilify Frank, we should at least give a dishonorable mention to the person who chaired that important committee from 2001 through the end of 2006. If the name Michael G. Oxley (R-OH) seems a little unfamiliar, perhaps the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 will ring a bell.
Since leaving Congress at the end of 2006, Oxley has been spending time with his family. Nah — I’m kidding, of course, unless his family is the Washington lobbying firm of Baker & Hostetler, where Oxley’s client list includes the National Association of Home Builders. Over the years, they’ve certainly come to think of Oxley as family.
# 108 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Fusion– keep track==Barney is responsible for his failure to call for if not implement tighter loan guarantee standards for the Freddies. We already went thru that. You want to give him a pass because he was a minority committee member. I don’t.
# 109 contempt said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
What a surprise – Drama Queen Mustard not only taking up for Barney Frank, but is insulted that any one would blame him for his misdeeds.
Oh I see! Queen Mustard you devil – got a thing for Barney do you? That certainly explains why you are always cranky and frustrated. You just miss your porky pal.
# 110 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
#109 – ‘tempt
With your content-free posting, I’m half-tempted (oooh get it? tempted??) to accuse you of being ‘dro in disguise.
However, that wouldn’t be fair to ‘dro. He occasionally says something that makes sense. And as far as I know, he’s not a bald-faced lying sack of shit, making things up from whole cloth to support asinine ideas you THINK should be so, even if they’re not.
Tsk tsk. At first, you were bittersweet, with your courageous attempt to make a Brittney-like comeback from your disgrace.
Now you’re just a steamy, stinking pile of shit.
# 111 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
#108, bobbo,
We already went thru that.
No we haven’t. What was this effen crises that Frank ignored? Where were the bad accounts that Frank should have seen that would have required a change in regulatory authority?
You criticized him because he didn’t do anything (or enough in your book) to halt something that was not happening. Please, allow me to rephrase the question.
What evidence was there that Fanny and Freddie required direct oversight by the Treasury Department?
# 112 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
#107 – GTDI
>>If the name Michael G. Oxley (R-OH) seems a
>>little unfamiliar, perhaps the Sarbanes-
>>Oxley Act of 2002 will ring a bell.
Oh, it’s not unfamiliar to me at all. I’m well aware of Oxley’s role in sponsoring the notorious Sarbanes-Oxley legislation, one of the biggest impediments to small- and medium-sized businesses since they invented taxation. Sarbanes-Oxley has been responsible for more expense, lost jobs, closed businesses, and economic heartache than just about any other single piece of legislation ever devised.
And the bitter irony in all that is SarbOx was supposed to PREVENT the kind of wailing and gnashing of teeth tha followed the collapse of Enron, WorldCom, etc.
Mission Accomplished??
# 113 contempt said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
#110 Drama Queen Mustard
Hey Queen Mustard, when you and Barney get together are you the train or the tunnel?
As for here you are the steamy, stinking pile of shit.
# 114 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
#111–Fusion==ok. I think I see the confusion. I keep saying Barney is responsible to some degree for the CURRENT SUBPRIME MORTGAGE CRISES. You keep countering with prove he ignored the crises.
What Barney ignored is the requirement of oversight his committee was charged with exercising over the Freddies and the general financial institutions. Failure to exercise that authority resulted in the crises that we have today.
I can see the word game at play here, but not the substance of your position.
Isn’t Congress RESPONSIBLE to make sure society and its institutions (including the Freddies) don’t create a financial meltdown? Or are they only responsible to get themselves re-elected and not pass gun control laws and healthcare access laws?
# 115 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
#113 – ‘tempt
>>As for here you are the steamy, stinking
>>pile of shit.
Jumpin’ Jehosophat! Is that like “I’m rubber, you’re glue”???
You seem to enjoy being bitch slapped. That’s a little kinky, isn’t it? I thought you Repubs kept that stuff inside the stall.
In any case, it’s a lot safer than trying to make actual comments containing actual facts; you just never know when someone will call your bluff and you will be revealed, yet again, as a Pinocchio-nose.
I don’t know how many more bouts of that sort of public humiliation you’ve got left in ya.
Pace yourself.
# 116 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
#114 – Bobo
>>What Barney ignored is the requirement of
>>oversight his committee was charged with
>>exercising over
What you remain in denial of, Bobo, is that (as GTDI points out) a little over a year ago Barney Frank was nothing more than the ranking MINORITY committee member of the House Financial Services Committe. And a year before that, the Congress was Repuglican controlled.
He WAS key in blocking Dumbya’s attempt to give the chickenhouse over to the foxes. And in 2002, there WAS no crisis. Dumbya’s friends and contributers were all claiming that everything was hunkey dory.
So OK. Barney Frank did not, single-handedly, stave off the housing crisis, the recession, the war in Iraq, cure cancer, and prevent Windows BSODs.
But to blame him, in large part, for the burning bag of dog shit that the Repugs have laid at our door? WTF? Are you daft?
# 117 contempt said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
#113 Drama Queen Mustard
>>…make actual comments containing actual facts
You are a fine example considering if a story doesn’t contain the facts you require you just make up your own.
Not sure who you think you are fooling, maybe yourself, but the only person’s credibility in question is yours.
# 118 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
#117–contempt==stop wasting our time with your puerile attempts at insult. You’ve got a blocked colon and your eyes are turning brown.
#116–Mustard & Fusion:
Wasn’t Barney in charge in 1999 when he PERSONALLY kicked off the chain of events that would lead us here, or if not directly “here” some other financial meltdown? (Hint==yes.):
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0de7db153ef933a0575ac0a96f958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
If minority party members are not responsible for anything when in such status, then they should be sent home to allow for more parking. He said nothing during the 8 year run up to the actual meltdown. HE HAS RESPONSIBILITY. No need to quibble about how much, but to say “none” is insane.
# 119 Mister Mustard said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
#117 – ‘tempt
>>You are a fine example considering if a
>>story doesn’t contain the facts you require
>>you just make up your own.
Heh heh. Heh heh heh. Care to provide an example or two? Or is this like the 9725 votes in a 9532-voter county in the Minnesota senate race? Like all those small businesses that are shutting down pre-emptively in fear of Obama’s oppressive tax plan? Tee hee!
I really hope you live on the west coast. Otherwise, it’s waaaaaaaaaay past your bed time.
Time to go night-night, son.
# 120 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
#118, bobbo,
The Republicans controlled the House from 1994 until 2006. In 1999 Henry Hide was still Speaker of the House and most of the year was distracted by the Clinton and Monica brouhaha.
The minority party still represents their district and the ranking member (and I’m not sure if that was Frank in 1999) gets to lead the minority party in committee.
Your link means nothing as it does not mention that either party was pushing the “toxic paper” on Fannie and Freddie.
Wasn’t Barney in charge in 1999 when he PERSONALLY kicked off the chain of events that would lead us here, or if not directly “here” some other financial meltdown? (Hint==yes.):
You haven’t answered the question. What evidence was there that Fannie and Freddy required new oversight by Treasury?
You accuse Frank of being responsible but haven’t told us how or why. You did post an irrelevant link that shows Fannie and Freddie giving Government subsidized mortgages to qualified low income buyers. And you haven’t refuted my claim that the Administration and financial institutions mislead Congress.
Bobbo, you are doing exactly what Cow-Paddy and ‘tempt are famous for. Making stupid claims then going down some other road when called on it.
# 121 bobbo said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Fusion–my router is acting up not letting me surf easily back to what I posted. From memory it clearly says Congress put pressure on lenders to issue loans to previously unqualified people and Freddie was authorized to insure those loans.
Its irrelevant what other posters you think I sound like. Please stop that bit of ad hominem.
You constantly refer to what people “did not do” at some other time and you continue to ignore what they did do (mostly by failure to act) at other points in time. So==the loan made in 2000 by pressure from Frankophiles was a bad loan but was not “toxic” until the same or similar loans where bundled up, securitized, debtswaped, and insured?
I accept reasonable people can disagree on specifics and that the vagaries of communication can make two parties speaking to the same point difficult at times.
Nonetheless, please answer this simple question: What is the job of Congress except to prevent the meltdown we have just experienced? If you say this is not the job of Congress then it would follow that Frank is not responsible. If Congress Is responsible, hard to see how he avoids his share.
It is indeed simple.
# 122 9y said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
go long SDS
# 123 Ah_Yea said,
on January 9th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
For you, Fusion and Mustard,
This has been one very entertaining thread!
All the mud-slinging, name calling, innuendo, and outright blind posturing has been a real hoot!
It’s better than watching “One Life To Live”!
Drama Queens…
Ok, just to kick you two while you’re down, Barney Frank (the big Democratic Purple Dinosaur) may not have been entirely or even largely to blame for the meltdown.
But he was, at the very least, incompetent in every way imaginable.
After all, he was the RANKING COMMITTEE MEMBER OF THE HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE!
It doesn’t matter, not one bit, if his party was in the majority or minority. HE WAS THE RANKING COMMITTEE MEMBER!
What this means, Fusion and Mustard (not that you’ll get it, obviously) is that he had the responsibility to oversee “the entire financial services industry, including the securities, insurance, banking, and housing industries.”
Barney Frank, at the very least was entirely incompetent in this.
“”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
BUT… “The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt — is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.
”There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,” Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee.”
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
So yes, Barney and his like-minded Dems are in large part responsible for this mess, given that he and his like-minded idiots fought against the Bush legislation which would have avoided this mess.
In other words, Barney was entirely incompetent in his job, yet fought to keep it at the expense of every man, woman, and child in the United States.
# 124 Ah_Yea said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Just to kick you again while your down,
“Fannie Mae, which was previously known as the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie Mac, which was the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, have been criticized by rivals for exerting too much influence over their regulators.
”The regulator (Barney Frank and company) has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,” said Representative Richard H. Baker, the Louisiana Republican who has proposed legislation similar to the administration proposal and who leads a subcommittee that oversees the companies. ”Being underfunded does not explain how a glowing report of Freddie’s operations was released only hours before the managerial upheaval that followed. This is not world-class regulatory work.””
Ok, awaiting your shrill response…
# 125 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Ah_Yea
>>RANKING COMMITTEE MEMBEROF THE HOUSE
>>FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE! HE WAS THE
>>RANKING COMMITTEE MEMBER!
You forgot the “minority” part, Einstein.
# 126 Ah_Yea said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Like I said, you can’t read.
“It doesn’t matter, not one bit, if his party was in the majority or minority. HE WAS THE RANKING COMMITTEE MEMBER!” See above.
Shrill….
# 127 pedro said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 2:24 am
It’s so nice to see adults willing to play the mop for their beloved club.
# 128 Gary, the dangerous infidel said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 3:06 am
Ah_Yea, in case Mister Mustard was a little too subtle, the “Minority” portion of Frank’s previous title implies that whatever his level of oversight incompetence may have been, there were other people charged with the same oversight responsibility who had even more power (and committee votes) to perform that same function. In any effort to be fair, the failure weighs no less heavy on their shoulders just because Frank happens to make a good punching bag.
It’s amazing how he was able to impose his will on that committee even though he didn’t become the ranking minority member until 2003, and didn’t become chairman until the Democrats gained a majority in 2007. As I understand it, Frank must have been able to successfully outplay all 37 of the Republican committee members (it’s a very large committee), all of whom stood for truth, justice, and the American way. I hope we someday learn how he managed to do it.
# 129 Paddy-O said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:30 am
And the lesson John?
If you want lots of angst & denial, attack a liberal for doing a bad job, deservedly.
# 130 Gary, the dangerous infidel said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:30 am
#129 Paddy-O, I suppose that’s fair. I can cop to my share of angst and denial. Like blame, there’s plenty to go around. However, injecting an occasional note of reality regarding the timeline of power is important when you have village idiots like bobbo saying, as he did in #118:
“Wasn’t Barney in charge in 1999 when he PERSONALLY kicked off the chain of events that would lead us here, or if not directly “here” some other financial meltdown? (Hint==yes.)”
# 131 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Ah Yea,
You are a lieing sack of Cow-Paddy excetement !!!
Your quote from #124
”The regulator (Barney Frank and company) has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,”
the actual quote
”The regulator has not only been outmanned, it has been outlobbied,”
Notice the difference? Barney Frank and for that matter any member of Congress is NOT, I’ll repeat that, NOT a regulator. The current regulator is the “Federal Housing Finance Agency”, which took over and assumed the regulatory responsibilities of several other agencies including “Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight”
To make a small mistake is acceptable and quite understandable. This, however, was a deliberate attempt to mislead because you went out of your way to insert a name into the quote that had not even appeared in the entire article!!!
# 132 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:41 am
RE: post # 131,
Geeze, I can’t even spell shit this morning.
That should have been:
“You are a lieing sack of Cow-Paddy excretement !!!”
I apologize to Ah Yea for getting that wrong. I understand how when you are such a lieing sack of excretement you would prefer that people got it right.
# 133 skunky said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:43 am
I was gonna comment but it looks like you folks all have zero to do during your day and already got there before me.
Blaming Barney Frank is like blaming the state for not protecting a kid who gets killed by their parent. Useful for demagogues, but not useful for actually fixing the problem. He may have been involved in lax oversight, but it was the private mortgage people who originated loans (not CRA-covered banks) to people who the KNEW couldn’t pay them back, then sliced and diced them into a spam-like product so you couldn’t know that they were made of crap.
A lot of Republicans got very rich on the bubble, and none of them are looking for ways to help the country out of the mess they created.
# 134 deowll said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:43 am
If people want to claim that Barney Frank and others wanted to help the poor I guess they are right.
If people want to claim that the failure to provide oversight and in fact, Frank and friends, blocking efforts to provide oversight isn’t a prime cause of the current situation we are in they are biggots that being the proper name of somebody who is so partison that they can’t even tell that what they are saying is obvious horse apples.
Frank and Friends meant well but they didn’t do their job and now everybody is getting it in the bum including the people they were trying to help.
To put it bluntly Frank and friends were incompetent.
Of course that was then. Now they are going to spend us out of our problems. Right.
They’ve already blown 350 billion and don’t have a clue where it went but they are just as sure as always that enough government spending is going to fix everything.
# 135 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:52 am
#123, Ah Yea,
So what is your point? You take up a lot of space condemning Mustard and I then use an article that only paints part of the picture.
The Republicans controlled both the House and Senate in 2003. That means they also controlled the committees. A Committee Chairman has enormous power over legislation. A Ranking member does not have any control.
This legislation was shelved by Oxley because it was a bad bill. It would have given the White House the control of the two largest mortgage lenders without any Congressional oversight. When Snow tried to broker a deal between Oxley, Shelby, and Bush, Bush said no. It was either pass the bill as it was or let it die.
You didn’t mention why the Democrats were not in favor of this bill. IT WOULD HAVE REMOVED THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY PROVIDE LOANS TO LOW INCOME PEOPLE.
Do not confuse low income with toxic paper. These were loans where the people might have had income of less than $45,000 and were buying a $70,000 home. The toxic paper included outright fraud and obvious inability to repay.
# 136 MikeN said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Bobbo, I think you have Fusion figured out. What surprises me is you went to all that effort even though you knew it would be pointless.
He doesn’t just deny Frank’s role in the crisis, he denies there was any crisis to be seen at that point, since Frank was saying there’s no problem.
# 137 gquaglia said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:54 am
What a surprise. Democrats supporting their voting base without any regard to the financial health of this country. History will show eventually that the Democrats,not Bush was ultimately responsible for this debacle
# 138 pedro said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 8:57 am
#133 You seem midly delusional, like all Lib apologists here. He directly said that those saying it would hurt the mortgage industries were delusionals.
Now we know who the dselusionals are.
# 139 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Ah Yea,
Since you didn’t read it when I posted it for Bobbo, I’ll repost it for YOU:
Mr. Bush did foresee the danger posed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored mortgage finance giants. The president spent years pushing a recalcitrant Congress to toughen regulation of the companies, but was unwilling to compromise when his former Treasury secretary wanted to cut a deal. And the regulator Mr. Bush chose to oversee them — an old prep school buddy — pronounced the companies sound even as they headed toward insolvency.
So when the regulator is telling the committee that all is fine, it is the committee’s fault?
(same source)
“There is no question we did not recognize the severity of the problems,” said Al Hubbard, Mr. Bush’s former chief economics adviser, who left the White House in December 2007. “Had we, we would have attacked them.”
Or, how about this gem, (same source)
Lawrence B. Lindsey, Mr. Bush’s first chief economics adviser, said there was little impetus to raise alarms about the proliferation of easy credit that was helping Mr. Bush meet housing goals.
“No one wanted to stop that bubble,” Mr. Lindsey said. “It would have conflicted with the president’s own policies.”
More? (same source)
Concerned that down payments were a barrier, Mr. Bush persuaded Congress to spend up to $200 million a year to help first-time buyers with down payments and closing costs.
And he pushed to allow first-time buyers to qualify for federally insured mortgages with no money down. Republican Congressional leaders and some housing advocates balked, arguing that homeowners with no stake in their investments would be more prone to walk away,
Did you notice? The Congress was worried this wasn’t a great idea to loosen lending standards.
Now, read this part, same source that will put it all in perspective for you. Oh ya, it does name the President.
The president also leaned on mortgage brokers and lenders to devise their own innovations. “Corporate America,” he said, “has a responsibility to work to make America a compassionate place.”
And corporate America, eyeing a lucrative market, delivered in ways Mr. Bush might not have expected, with a proliferation of too-good-to-be-true teaser rates and interest-only loans that were sold to investors in a loosely regulated environment.
“This administration made decisions that allowed the free market to operate as a barroom brawl instead of a prize fight,” said L. William Seidman, who advised Republican presidents and led the savings and loan bailout in the 1990s. “To make the market work well, you have to have a lot of rules.”
But Mr. Bush populated the financial system’s alphabet soup of oversight agencies with people who, like him, wanted fewer rules, not more.
So how did this happen? Well here is a small hint.
Among the Republican Party’s top 10 donors in 2004 was Roland Arnall. He founded Ameriquest, then the nation’s largest lender in the subprime market, which focuses on less creditworthy borrowers. In July 2005, the company agreed to set aside $325 million to settle allegations in 30 states that it had preyed on borrowers with hidden fees and ballooning payments. It was an early signal that deceptive lending practices, which would later set off a wave of foreclosures, were widespread.
Well where was the oversight?
As for Mr. Bush’s banking regulators, they once brandished a chain saw over a 9,000-page pile of regulations as they promised to ease burdens on the industry. When states tried to use consumer protection laws to crack down on predatory lending, the comptroller of the currency blocked the effort, asserting that states had no authority over national banks.
The administration won that fight at the Supreme Court. But Roy Cooper, North Carolina’s attorney general, said, “They took 50 sheriffs off the beat at a time when lending was becoming the Wild West.” (same source)
That should be enough for now. If there are doubters still, I can post more. Again, the link is here.
# 140 jealousmonk said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Let’s put things into perspective (never try to use Fox News when doing this, BTW!). We could buy ALL sub-prime mortgages for $500 billion. Most of those are being paid off regularly and are not a risk. This mortgage practice is a very serious problem but is absolutely dwarfed by the wild-west, high-rollin’, $half-a-quadrillion (world-wide) derivatives market that built up around it.
Fannie and Freddie were dogs but Lehman, Goldman-Sachs, etc. were/are devils.
# 141 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 9:23 am
#136, 137, and 138,
You effen losers have yet to post anything substantive. You girls keep saying “It’s Frank’s fault” but have yet to say what he did.
I’ll repeat, as late as August 2008, the Administration was saying “all is well”, publicly and privately.
# 142 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 9:30 am
#140, monk,
You are quite correct in your assessment.
# 143 pedro said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 9:49 am
#141 ConFused. You’re the one mistaken here, by trying unsuccessfully to take any blame away from him. He’s as guilty as all the Demagogues & Repugblicans involved.
And worse, he comes all sanctimoniously to admonish a relief to a mess he contributed to create.
Keep with your tune thoug, it’s funny to watch a mad liberal-at-large trying to twist reality.
# 144 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 10:07 am
#143, ‘dro the a**hole,
What did Frank do? You are accusing him and found him guilty, but have yet to show any evidence that he is complicit in the oversight or running of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.
You continue to deny that the Republican Congress saw the light and didn’t hand over the regulatory function to the Bush White House. You continue to deny the the part of the Regulatory oversight controlled by the Bush White House screwed up royally.
And worse, he comes all sanctimoniously to admonish a relief to a mess he contributed to create.
Say what ???
# 145 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 10:14 am
#143 – ‘dro
>>You’re the one mistaken here, by trying
>>unsuccessfully to take any blame away from
>>him.
As soon as you and your wingnut pajama pals successfully assign some blame, we’ll determine whether or not we want to try and take it away.
So far, the only thing that can be conclusively determined about Barney Frank is that he was instrumental in preventing the attempted takeover of the mortgage industry by Dumbya and his cabal of deregulation-crazed predators.
Was there anything else?
# 146 jbenson2 said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 11:13 am
#1 pedro nailed it!
“This is like showing a crucifix to a vampire.
Waiting for the “false” cries any second now.”
145 hand-wringing responses so far from the bleeding liberal “I see nothing wrong with what the Democrats did” attitude supporting sub-prime mortgages for low-income people who could not afford the monthly payments.
Nothing to see here. Move along!
# 147 Rick Cain said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 11:53 am
The mortgage crisis began in 2006, one year before the Democrats took power in january of 2007.
Barney frank in 2007 immediately began regulating the mortgage industry and howls of disapproval came from the GOP.
You come to your own conclusions.
# 148 wiglebot said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
These comments are better than FOX. FOX sells content and most is BS looking for a reaction. Reaction Sells. This blog does the same thing.
Anyway, watch cspan.org; Or cspan clips on youtube.
# 149 bobbo said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
#130–Gary==a fair cop. I said my router wasn’t working. I’ve read too many articles that Barney worked hard his entire tenure thru bedmates and contributors to get house loans to poor people. He has ample opportunity to “speak out” about any coming disaster but how could he when he was the Champion of Excess.
So, who had “power” is a Congressional game of musical chairs netting out at “no one” is responsible. I take the other approach. Everyone in Congress IS responsible–that means everyone. Even people who aren’t senior ranking member of the party in power.
The reason our country is going down the shit hole is everyone here who can’t see the simple truth that everyone in Congress is responsible. Thats what they are elected to do/be.
When the electorate doesn’t understand basic relationships/obligations you get what we have today. A continuously corrupt congress shifting the wealth of our nation to a very few rich and avoiding responsibility for same even though the truth is discernible unless one exercises effort to avoid it.
# 150 Paddy-O said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
# 149 bobbo said, “Everyone in Congress IS responsible–that means everyone. Even people who aren’t senior ranking member of the party in power.”
You are 100% correct Bobbo.
Even the lowest ranking member of the minority could have screamed bloody murder to the news media…
# 151 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
#150 – Paddy-RAMBO
>>Even the lowest ranking member of the
>>minority could have screamed bloody murder
>>to the news media…
Screamed bloody murder about what? “Things seem OK now in 2002, but maybe the people testifying in front of us are liars, and at some point in the future the capitalist predators will fuck things up with their derivatives and CDOs and credit default swaps and leverage, and create a mess like you wouldn’t believe”??
# 152 Paddy-O said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
# 151 Mister Mustard said, “Screamed bloody murder about what?”
That’s right. The financial melt down hasn’t happened yet for you because of your inability to use Google and read about it…
ROFL!!!
# 153 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#149, bobbo, AKA Cow-Paddy,
I said my router wasn’t working.
Then how did you get on-line to post at all? A router is a gateway device between a modem and several computers. No router, the computer and modem don’t connect.
I’ve read too many articles that Barney worked hard his entire tenure thru bedmates and contributors to get house loans to poor people. He has ample opportunity to “speak out” about any coming disaster but how could he when he was the Champion of Excess.
Go back and read how Bush and his cronies continued to tell Congress, and the American people, how the economy was sound. Now tell us how someone can react when all indications are that everything is fine?
So, who had “power” is a Congressional game of musical chairs netting out at “no one” is responsible. I take the other approach. Everyone in Congress IS responsible–that means everyone. Even people who aren’t senior ranking member of the party in power.
Very good approach. Only you have only mentioned Frank and even accused him of fomenting the problem when he wasn’t even in charge. You have yet to mention ONE fucking Member of Congress that shares the blame with Frank. Your now omnibus accusation is too little and too late. Shit, you even accused him of running the committee long before he even became the ranking member.
The reason our country is going down the shit hole is everyone here who can’t see the simple truth that everyone in Congress is responsible. Thats what they are elected to do/be.
WHAT ?!?!?! The President refuses to share information with Congress. The President and his cronies lied to Congress. The Financial Industry got drunk buying shit. The regulators went out of their way to allow all this to happen. And you only blame Congress?
When the electorate doesn’t understand basic relationships/obligations you get what we have today.
True. A humiliated President and Administration that is the worst in history. The most dysfunctional regulators imaginable. Political Assistants who put Party and religion before the good of the country. A President who put friends in power. A long list of felony charges just waiting to be pardoned. And a Republican party in tatters.
The electorate understands. It is you and people like you that don’t understand.
Old saying on this blog. When you are in a hole, you can stop digging.
# 154 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
#152, Cow-Paddy, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath and Troll Supreme,
That’s right. The financial melt down hasn’t happened yet for you because of your inability to use Google and read about it…
The financial “meltdown” happened for several reasons, not the least of which was the loss of jobs to China. The good paying jobs. Then the sudden increase in energy prices kicked the crap out what remained of American industry. All those layoffs meant people couldn’t continue to pay their mortgages. Reselling the houses became impossible because the housing prices fell because there were no buyers, they too had lost their jobs.
The finial institutions couldn’t cope because with all the relaxed regulation they had no one to tell them they could buy junk mortgages issued by scammers and fraud artists.
And all this time the Administration was telling Congress, Democrat and Republican, that all was fine.
But that is the right wing nut method. Totally screw things up and blame someone else.
And you know what? Not one person accusing Frank of being responsible has been able to come up with anything to pin on him. If anything, Frank and Oxley should be commended for not caving in to Bush and deregulating Fanny and Freddy any further.
# 155 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#154 – Mr. Fusion
I can see Paddy-RAMBO’s snappy reply now:
“LOL”
# 156 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
#153 – Fusion
>>Then how did you get on-line to post at all?
I was wondering that as well. I figured reading the answer would be worse than the ignorance of not knowing, so I didn’t ask.
# 157 bobbo said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
My DLink $31 EBR-2310 wired router often will not connect to many websites. Most of the time, like now, I am connected directly to the modem, but there are two other users in the house. We use the limited service of the router when multiple people want to get on. It never works well–the $12 cheapo before this one worked perfectly before it totally broke. I’ve adjusted every setting I can find to no avail.
# 158 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
#157, bobbo, AKA Cow-Paddy the troll,
Bullshit. The router doesn’t differentiate between web sites. That would be done by a software firewall.
I suggest that if you have intermittent connection problems, call your ISP.
*
If your router and modem are not communicating then follow this procedure carefully.
Unplug the power and disconnect the cable and ethernet all at the modem. Disconnect the power to the router. Go take a crap or make a coffee, but wait at least FIVE minutes.
Plug the modem power back in, then the cable, then the ethernet. Plug the router in. Take your time but you do not need to wait for the lights to flash. Wait for about 1/2 to one minute for the modem and router to communicate. Your computer may or may not need booting. If this procedure does not work then try it again with the computer turned off.
*
If you can get on-line then maybe you can research and post a few links of “I’ve read too many articles that Barney worked hard his entire tenure thru bedmates and contributors …“. Actually just one story of Frank prostituting himself would suffice, but you read too many so, …
# 159 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
#157 – Bobbo
I can see it now: All the Bobbos, sitting around in a little circle, tethered to their defective router by 3-foot ethernet cables. All cursing their non-god in unison for their inability to connect to myriad websites.
And what are you doing with a wired router anyway, ya cheapskate? 802.11 b/g are cheap these days. In fact, mine was free from the ISP.
# 160 bobbo said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Fusion–thanks. I’ve done all that and more. My experience is as I’ve reported. Are routers uniquely a “either totally work” or “don’t work at all” type of appliance? No possible way they could have problems connecting in certain ways to different parts of the web huh? Good to know.
I’d be happy to go on another snipe hunt for you but answer me this first since it remains on the table:
Is Congress and every member therein responsible for what Congress does or fails to do–whether their party is in power or not? ((Of course Unless they have made a spectacle of themselves for being one note Johnnies.))
# 161 bobbo said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
#159–Mustard==maybe it is god (or the devil since they can’t be told apart) punishing me for operating only on that which he has provided me. I thought wired routers would make more “guaranteed” connections and would use wire even with a wireless router.
My take away is that if these router thingies are so reverently admired by your more proficient types, I probably just got a bum unit. Think I’ll go get another one and see.
Thanks.
# 162 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#161 – Bobbo
Well, have it your way. It’s your God-given right to use wireless or wired, as you choose. God bless America. I have a computer next to the router; that one is connected by ethernet (just because I can). All other computers use the WiFi connection. I’ve never had trouble with either mode of connection.
In instances where I HAVE had router trouble, it was when the device made the WORKS -> DOES NOT WORK transition.
What you have sounds more like somebody installed Net Nanny on your machine, and you’re trying to go places you shouldn’t be going.
I often have trouble connecting to dvorak dot org slash blog (getting the dreaded ERROR ESTABLISHING CONNECTION TO DATABASE message), but other than that, it’s all smoooooooooooth.
# 163 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
#160, bobbo,
Is Congress and every member therein responsible for what Congress does or fails to do–whether their party is in power or not?
No, of course not. No more than anyone is responsible for what someone else does. Even in the BART Cop Shooting, some other cop miles away bears no responsibility for the shooting.
Congress has the dirty job of representing 500,000 to almost 1,000,000 constituents.That is a lot of varied ideas present. Then there are 435 of those interests in the House and another 100 in the Senate. Most laws passed are done with some consensus and compromise, even among the majority party.
Most laws are not perfect and the representatives hold their nose at the objectionable sections just to get the good portions through. Of course some times the compromises turn too many people off so the law ends up not passing.
Votes are also traded as favors so some representative can push through a law that helps his district / State.
If this compromise and vote trading didn’t occur, nothing would ever get passed as there is always something objectionable in any law.
Your same sense of joint accountability would also mean that you too are to blame because you voted for (or not) the person representing your district.
# 164 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Mustard,
That is a problem with the server on DU’s end. The fact you get it means the server is present and working but it is not responding to the URL request.
# 165 bobbo said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
#153–Fusion==thank you. The horrendous basis of your error is finally plain for all to see. Please cut and past that post into your personal diary to reconsider as time permits.
Even if your generalized prounouncement where true, it is irrelevant to long time congressmen serving on the committees having direct oversight responsibilities for the very activity that suffered from lack of oversight don’t you think?
The cop example is just as stupid as you suggest. Why did you make it?
Then you finish with a flourish: “Your same sense of joint accountability would also mean that you too are to blame because you voted for (or not) the person representing your district.” /// How can I be responsible when I VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!
The opposite answer also gives you a fail: of course I am also derivatively responsible===just 5 more steps removed.
As I posted, whats wrong with our government is people giving these crooks a pass for the corruption and ineptitude EVEN when presented with the facts/evidence against them.
I wish I could be your personal banker.
# 166 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
#164 – Fusion
>>That is a problem with the server on DU’s end.
Yes, I know. I just like to point it out now and then, in the hopes that it will stop happening.
# 167 Mister Mustard said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
#165 – Bobbo
>>How can I be responsible when I VOTE ALL
>>INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!
No you don’t. You sing that silly song here on dvorak dot org slash blog, but you certainly don’t do it in real life. In fact, you probably even vote FOR some of the incumbents, if their opponents are distasteful enough. What if they dropped term limits and Dumbya ran against Obama in ‘12? Would you vote for him? Cheney? Palin?
You’re just blowing smoke up our asses with this adolescent battle cry. Even if you DID vote against all incumbents (which I don’t believe), THAT’S NOT ENOUGH. YOU COULD HAVE DONE MORE. You could have, BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY, prevented the inumbents from fulfilling another term.
>>Even if your generalized prounouncement
>>where true, it is irrelevant to blah blah
Blah blah. You might want to post that into YOUR personal diary and reconsider it. You STILL have not shown what Barney Frank did that is so reprehensible. You blather on with your smoke and mirrors and outlandish punctuation, saying “something bad has happened, and it has to do with moeny and houses, and there are people supposed to be taking care of money and houses for me, committees to do that stuff, and Barney Frank is a member of one of those committees….so BINGO! The bastard is to blame for all my woes”.
Pretty shabby.
Where were were you in 2002 when Barney Frank was working all his devilsh magic? Where were the neocon wingnuts in 2002? The only thing they could find to criticize Barney Frank at in 2002 were that he took it up the ass from his boyfriend. Now all of a sudden “everybody” “knows” that he was up to no good 6 or 7 years ago, and if he hadn’t done what he did (or didn’t do; whatever that was), we wouldn’t be in this pickle today.
Christ. For a Master Logician, you make no sense at all.
# 168 Gary, the dangerous infidel said,
on January 10th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Well bobbo, a defective router certainly does explain the defective information you’ve managed to gather. I have a TrendNet router that gives me more reliable data about Congress, and it clearly tells me that Frank did not PERSONALLY kick off the chain of events in 1999 that would lead us here, as you alleged based on the erroneous data from your D-Link router. D-Link has been changing the bits that cross your Ethernet wire in order to make you look like a fool 
# 169 pedro said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 3:51 am
#146 Yeap! #144 & #145 had blisters in their hands and forearms since yesterday.
#147 Frank was amongst those pushing for the crisis to occur. It’s so stupid to start “fixing” after 2006 all the pushing he did for it to happen.
He’s like a member of a group of kids telling another one to break his mother’s china only to acuse him later.
#151 Now, take it easy. Those blisters of yours are about to burst. Take a nap now, it’s daylight.
#153 took the hit by behaving like: “I know what you are, but what am I?”
# 170 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 7:04 am
#169, ‘dro the “A”hole,
More gibberish. Since you obviously like to access the internet from Cuba, why can’t you also post something with some substance to it. I know how you “A”holes like to just sit around in a circle jerk, but damn it, show some intelligence for once.
# 171 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 8:54 am
#165, bobbo, aka Cow-Paddy the Troll,
How can I be responsible when I VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!
Simply because you cast a ballot. You want to hold all Congressmen responsible regardless of how they voted or even spoke simply by some gross act of inclusion. Therefore by voting you either enables someone to be elected or prevented a better person NOT to be elected.
I am not aware of any State that allows a strict vote on who should be removed from office during a general election. Therefore your statement that you “I VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!” is false. When you enter the voting booth you either vote FOR someone or you do not vote at all. There is no option allowing you to vote to see the incumbent removed.
The very thesis that you vote solely to remove incumbents is as stupid as not voting and even worse in outcome. If, you vote to remove Congressman “A”, and Congressman “A” is a good person and candidate “B” ends up being elected then you must share candidate “B”’s stance on police brutality, self paid health care, more religion in schools, and putting blacks back into slavery.
BUT,
I’m still waiting to see some substance about Frank promoting the financial crises and some of those articles you’ve been reading about Frank in bed with so many people.
I just know you wouldn’t make a claim that couldn’t be backed up.
# 172 Wretched Gnu said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Republicans always forget that it was Bush who persistently pushed for houses for everybody no matter what (”the ownership society”). Without him, no bubble for Fannie & Freddie.
But only the economically ignorant think Fannie & Freddie are significant to our current meltdown. Their bad paper is a drop in the bucket compared to the asset-less leveraging games that the big banks were playing –
– and all because *Republicans* refused to regulate any of it, and because *Republicans*, by an overwhelming majority, occupied the seats in those board rooms.
Just remember: Who was it that said these banks and corporations should operate without federal auditing?
Oh yes. It was Republicans.
The whole bloody thing is the result of Republican ignorance and hubris. It takes quite the childish mind not to know that.
# 173 Mister Mustard said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#69 – ‘dro
>>Frank was amongst those pushing for the
>>crisis to occur. It’s so stupid to
>>start “fixing” after 2006 all the pushing he
>>did for it to happen.
‘dro! Bro’! To date, I’ve not included you in the list of liars here on dvorak dot org slash blog, such as ‘temp and Paddy-RAMBO. I preferred to imagine you as a simple, vacuous, harmless Kuzconian with no real point of view of your own.
Was I wrong, bro’ ‘dro? If you are going to make affirmative statements like “Frank was amongst those pushing for the crisis to occur”, then you will be held to the same standard as ‘tempt and Paddy-RAMBO, and will be required to provide proof of your assertion.
A word of warning…it’s much easier to sit on the sidelines tossing Kuczonian humor like “Mustard is beating his dick” than it is to actually SAY something, and back up what you say.
So, as we say in Kuzconia, ¿Dónde está la carne? How exactly did Frank “push for the crisis to occur”?
# 174 pedro said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 10:14 am
#170 You’re right. I should start posting about how good cuba is. I’m sure you’ll agree with anything in that direction. Whatever is useful to smear reality, you’re in.
#172 Again, who’s not saying that Bush is responsible too?
The problem here is the Dems. unwillingness to take responsability. Maybe that’s genetical from the extremist in that party.
# 175 Wretched Gnu said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 10:48 am
I quote:
“#172 Again, who’s not saying that Bush is responsible too?
The problem here is the Dems. unwillingness to take responsability.”
Please read that again.
How and when, exactly, did Bush take any responsibility?
How and when, exactly, did any Republican ever, anywhere take responsibility — for their much greater complicity in letting the banks and corporations go without any oversight whatsoever?
Where? When?
# 176 pedro said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 11:02 am
#175 Who’s this blog post about, Bush? No, it’s about Frank and his apologists here, like #173
Did Bush had anything to do with the crisis? Do I have to spell the answer to this question for you to get it? ‘Cause I’m as hell not gonna repeat it.
If you want to keep playing the childish blame it on the other side game, be my guest, but don’t expect me to play along.
The far left Dem. supporter’s logic is so puerile that’s boring: Dems. are never wrong, even when they get in cahoots with the Republicans. The latter case all the better because we can blame them and be correct.
# 177 Mr. Fusion said,
on January 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
#176, Pedro the *A*hole,
Several times and by several posters you have been asked to show us what Frank actually did to initiate, perpetuate, or become complicit in the failure of Freddie Mac or Fanny Mae. Every time you have gone off on some tangent about how Democrats can’t face responsibility or we are just in denial.
There has been ample evidence presented that Bush and his Republican Administration were the most responsible for the lack of regulation and oversight that led to the over abundance of “toxic paper” that caused the crash. Yet there has been no evidence presented that the Congressional Democrats (and I’ll also include the Congressional Republicans to some degree) contributed to the financial trouble we are now in.
I slightly disagree with Wretched Gnu in that Congressional Democrats also wanted to expand home ownership to poorer people, and include Bill Clinton there too. It must be remembered though that these mortgages and most other sub-prime mortgages were not the the cause of the problem. It was the fraudulent paper that was floated as if it was good as well as the general economy going down the tubes.
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