A New Year’s Day shooting in which a subway police officer fired a deadly shot into the back of an unarmed man has the San Francisco Bay Area demanding answers as authorities appeal for patience…
The young men had been celebrating the new year at a popular waterfront tourist spot, The Embarcadero. They were heading home when police pulled them from the train car. Some of the young men were handcuffed, but not 22-year-old Oscar Grant. The video from the anonymous passenger shows Grant seated on the floor with his back against the wall.
Grant holds up his hands, appearing to plead with police. Burris said Tuesday that Grant was asking police not to use a Taser.
Seconds later, police put Grant face-down on the ground. Grant appears to struggle. One of the officers kneels on Grant as another officer stands up, tugs at his gun, unholsters it and fires a shot into Grant’s back.
The bullet went through Grant’s back and then ricocheted off the floor and through his lungs. Grant…died seven hours later, KTVU reported.
Unconscionable, unforgivable.
You really have to be creative to invent a reasonable reason for this.
I would want to know why they dragged the guy to the floor to begin with. How many cops where reaching for their tazer or gun, and why only the cop that shot a cuffed man.
Why even taze someone who is cuffed?????????????????
Why on earth is a Tazer shaped and weighted just like the other duty weapon???? That is so stupid that its hard to comprehend.
Someone might say that the similarity is to leverage existing knowledge and skill with the handgun. BUT even if — shouldnt a newbie have just a little less rope to hang himself with?
I am a tv news photographer in San Francisco. I have been doing stories about this event. I know our TV station has been running video of this shooting constantly. I have avoided watching any of it. I think it is disgusting. Interestingly, our station has a policy of NOT showing anyone getting a flu shot, because it might disturb somebody. My industry is morally bankrupt.
#83–cammike==how is your industry corrupt? Seems to me people should NOT get upset re flu shots, and SHOULD get upset over cops who kill. Totally consistent with what your station is doing.
Your actual complaint is vague. What should be done to fix it?
#77 – Bobo
>>what part of NOT LIVING IN A POLICE STATE
>>makes you assume police SHOULD have guns?
What part of NOT LIVING IN A POLICE STATE would allow the police to be bigger than me, or stronger than me, or better fighters than me? In fact what part of NOT LIVING IN A POLICE STATE makes you think there should be police at all? Fascist pigs! How dare they assume the authority to make laws that I am expected to obey?
>>OF COURSE==police should never carry guns.
Either you’re pulling my pud, or you live on a commune somewhere.
What’s your solution? Have all the police take Bruce Lee training, so they can subdue any opponent, be he bristling with armaments or not, with their bare hands? Have everybody hug and tell each other a secret?
You’ve got some wacky ideas Bobo, but this is one of your best.
Police have many other tools besides random death by firearm to gain the respect of the citizenry. Their main advantage was on display in the video==three or more young athletic cops in radio contract with backup (who should have weapons until society shifts away from infantile gun worship) would be more than enough for 95% of what they need to do. Throw in tasers and batons and you get to 99%. Get them to think with their brains instead of relying on your weapons, and you are now at 100%.
Its a new idea–police don’t shoot people who don’t have guns themselves. Think on it a while. Post back only when it makes sense.
#86, bobbo,
Either you’re drunk or you already took your meds. Go to bed.
Its a two way mirror Fusion. Both sides look drunk to the other.
How do you imagine a more perfect world? More guns for everyone like Mustard does.
Can’t we all think just a little out of the box?
#86 – Bobo
>>Post back only when it makes sense.
Hah! That’s a trick, isn’t it Bobo! You’re trying to pull a fast one on me. You KNOW that what you posted (that the police should exercise their authority by garnering the respect of rapists, murderers, meth-heads, psychotic serial killers, etc., and just talk them into handcuffs, is NEVER going to make sense. Not to me, not to anyone with a lick of common sense.
This isn’t Mayfield, and the coppers aren’t chasing down Wally and the Beav to bring them back home to Ward and June.
I’m as critical of heavy-handed fascist pigs as the next guy. But to think that police are going to subdue inner-city violent felons with a few choruses of Kumbaya and by showing them their Eagle badge boggles the mind, even coming from you.
#88 – Bobo
>>How do you imagine a more perfect world? >>More guns for everyone like Mustard does.
Curb your enthusiasm, Bobo.
When you settle down a little, you will realize that I NEVER recommended “more guns for everyone”. I simply pointed out the self-evident fact that we are never going to banish all guns from Earthlings. And as long as SOME people are going to have guns, those who wish to legally own firearms to protect themselves should not be prevented from doing so.
#89–Mustard==is that what you saw on the video?
The hard criminal you refer to is the exception. Most cops never pull their guns in anger==so why should they have them?
Yes, my idea may not work in our insane times, but its always a good notion to keep in mind.
How can we ever know what a “competent” professional police service would look like? (ie==we’ve never had one.)
#91 – Bobbo
>>The hard criminal you refer to is the
>>exception. Most cops never pull their guns
>>in anger==so why should they have them?
Maybe it’s the exception on your Berkely commune, but not everywhere. Sure, maybe Barney Fife coralling wayward elementary schoolchildren in some bucolic rural hamlet could maybe get away with just a whistle and a stern look. What about Compton? Liberty City? Trenchtown? South Bronx? Cops on the Organized Crime Task Force? DEA?
Mustard–those are all fine situations for armed special tactics. Why can’t you get real about the 99% rest of America? What percentage of criminal mentality power heads become cops just so they can have a gun? Yea.
But, I saw a big crack in your statement “Until no guns exist then anybody who wants one should have one”–meaning you can’t think rationally. But you seem to admit that some people should not have guns. I’d start with average cops in average circumstances. They could lead our society into better attitudes rather than stand as models for contempt.
Oh, for Christ’s sake, Bobo. You’re relentless.
Who should be the “armed special tactics”? Cops in NYC, Chicago, and LA? What about Cleveland? Boston? Miami? Minneapolis? Which major cities would YOU like to be an unarmed cop in? Should only a select few be allowed to carry guns, and “call for backup” when they get in a confrontation with armed gang members? What do they do in the meantime? Pray?
Did it ever occur to you that maybe some felonious-minded citizens decline to get in a gun battle with the cops FOR THE VERY REASON that they know the cops will shoot back?
I think you better lay off the ‘shrooms. I’m all for peace, love, and understanding, but to expect unarmed law enforcement to wander into the naughty parts of town, hoping that the Eagle badge and the hugging will sooth the savage beasts went out of favor a little after Woodstock.
#94–Mustard==yea, its all interactive and perspective based isn’t it. To the degree you are right, its just signifies how far down the drain gun rights have taken us. Maybe its too late. Hopefully a new dawn will break when people won’t think a gun is their only means of protection.
I’m thru.
I am not sure what came first, abusive Cops or aggressive criminals.
With one of the worlds highest incarceration rate, you would think our crime rate would be the lowest in the world. News flash, it’s not. Many once non violent petty criminals become violent once they are released. Our criminal system seem to only escalate crime.
Many young family members exposed to police abuse by watching police abuse of another family member become criminals themselves as a means of protection and support.
Why do you think kids where baggy, unbelted falling pants. Where do you think that came from. It came from people returning from prison.
As more and more members of society get more and more beat down by lack of opportunity and government official’s abuse, people will reach a tipping point and riot, as they are doing now. No Justice no peace.
Law and order don’t mean much in a society with no opportunity, mass unemployment and a scene of governmental abuse of authority.
If government want’s some respect, it needs to deal aggressively against abusive police, more so then unruly back talking citizens.
geez, haven’t any of you ever BEEN to the Fruitvale BART station?!!
First of all, it’s a narrow platform, raised high up (it’s at least 4 stories above the street). The only way up/down is via some cement stairs or a usually NOT working escalator, or an elevator that is almost never working. There are three cops and four people they’re trying to detain. The other side of the station are a group of monkeys yelling and taunting, and, the cops are stressed..you can see it in their body language. They’re wondering how do they get these four down the stairs…and into cars…(remember these guys had been fighting on a BART car, endangering peoples lives, as they fought…with passengers trying to not get in the fray) It was New Year’s Eve and every cop in Oakland was probably busy elsewhere (note BART cops are a separate police force, they’re not Oakland Cops). So, no backup.
The guy may not have been resisting in the classic sense, but he wasn’t cooperating!
The cops looked stressed, uncertain, and confused. They were all regular officers, and no one was in charge, obviously. Meanwhile, BART police were busy at every station with dozens of rowdy riders, drunks, and a lot of the typical pickpockets, etc. I doubt they had a clear communication with anyone in charge, and that pesky idea “how to get four guys downstairs with the crowds…” was distracting them.
The body language after the shooting is unmistakable. WTF??? What happened? If you look at the body language of all the cops..they were stunned. The shooting cop seemed the most bewildered of them all. He looks down several times at his belt.
Cops are cops. They’re humans. They make mistakes. This was a very unfortunate mistake. But it’s no less a mistake than some one hitting the gas instead of the brake and killing a kid on a bike. The reality is, the bullshit that is going on after this..the “I hate cops” the “kill the cop” the “charge him with murder” …is mob mentality chickenshit crap.
GROW UP.
You’re no better than those rioters who are smashing windows and ruining people’s lives, and saying that it’s justice.
In fact, I’d guess that for all the chest beating I’m reading on this, and other blogs, that you guys should all go visit your favorite pron site…and get your rocks off, get some sleep, and try to not act so much like adolescent boys.
You are pathetic.
#97 Ok it’s not murder it’s homicide, but it’s still a crime. Let’s not forget the victim of this alleged accident. The police have their training and if they follow that training this kind of thing should be rare. Unfortunately it’s not, that’s why the natives are restless. Cops in the US are developing some very violent techniques that don’t neccessarily coincide with SOP. The increase in unecessary tazings is a good example of this. Maybe we need some new rules and better training for these vital public servants.
#97, meetsy,
I see your point, but you miss some things.
It doesn’t matter if he was not cooperating. The point is he was not resisting. He was cuffed and one cop had his knee on his head. That means he was subdued. If the cop thought he deserved to be tazered then the cop was wrong. At that point the tazer would have been a torture device and an assault. Instead of the tazer though, it was a firearm. Committing a homicide during the commission of a crime makes it First Degree Murder.
Yes, yes, we can sympathize with the cop. He didn’t mean to do it, yada yada, it was an accident, yada yada, he thought it was a tazer, yada.
Bullshit. The cop and his associates were overly rough and abusive with the victim and the others that night. What the people are protesting is this unrestrained abuse by police.
That the police were busy is not an excuse to assault the prisoners. That there might not be any backup is not an excuse to tazer a subdued prisoner. That they had four flights of steps to go down is not an excuse to shoot one of them. That there were many bystanders is not an excuse to not act professionally.
No, rioting is not the answer. BUT, how long does it take to investigate? If this was a civilian, his / her ass would be in jail right now. In fact, all those there that night would be in jail. It would be a First Degree Murder charge on all of them which means no bail. But no, they are cops so there has to be a long investigation before it is swept under the rub.
So far there are two videos clearly showing an unprovoked murder. That is sufficient evidence to identify the police and charge them.
As I posted earlier, if someone just got their license and drove an 18 wheeler into a school bus, how well could you say it was only an accident? I’m sure that driver would be more than shocked.
Don’t worry, there’s always a cop-friendly jury packed with young white rightwing lower class males ready to exonerate the police no matter what they steal or who they kill.