Bush War on Roquefort Raises a Stink in France – washingtonpost.com — Let me summarize. We have a cattle industry pumping up animals with hormones and anti-biotics and all sorts of things not allowed in the EU where they have some respect for the food supply. The EU bans our beef. So we screw over the farmers who make this delicious and specialized cheese. Pathetic. Of course now the French are thinking of dropping a huge tariff on Coca-Cola.
In its final days, the Bush administration imposed a 300 percent duty on Roquefort, in effect closing off the U.S. market. Americans, it declared, will no longer get to taste the creamy concoction that, in its authentic, most glorious form, comes with an odor of wet sheep and veins of blue mold that go perfectly with rye bread and coarse red wine.
The measure, announced Jan. 13 by U.S. Trade Representative Susan C. Schwab as she headed out the door, was designed as retaliation for a European Union ban on imports of U.S. beef containing hormones.
This tariff punishes Americans more than it punishes the French. The gov’t is doing me no favor by reducing my choice.
An opinion from France…
First, about Blue Cheese/Roquefort: Roquefort cheeses (there are several) amount only for a small part of all French “Blue Cheeses”, they’re simply the blue Cheeses that come from the town of Roquefort. They are the most renowned, but you can prefer other very fine French Blue cheeses, like Bleu d’Auvergne,…
From what I’ve read, the part of the Roquefort production exported to the US amounts to about 30% of the production. So these tariffs do have an impact on the Roquefort economy. Now, Roquefort is a high-end produce, and they’ll find a replacement for the US market. Now, Americans will certainly have more difficulty finding Roquefort in their groceries, event after this stupid tariff war.
Now about the tariff war:
The EU ban on GM food might help protect the local production, but it’s really not its main goal: public opinion is strongly against GM food, much more than its govt’s, in fact. Experimental GM fields are destroyed by protesters,…
Now about the US beef containing hormones, it might be more controversial. European opinion, however, is once again strongly against these practices. From what I’ve read , the problem is not only that of adding hormones or not to beef. It’s a problem of traceability. We could accept hormone-fed beef, if it were clearly sold as such. And then, it would never be accepted in most public restaurants( schools, hospitals…). Now, yes, it certainly helps protect the local European market. But I really think it’s just a side effect of the measure.
And why couldn’t the Americans produce healthy, hormone-free beef ? That would be better for everyone… But for that, you’d need to change the American public opinion.
And the poor Roquefort producers have nothing to do with this war. Why not just leave them alone?
#22
Food for thought.
Thank you.
As #22 pointed out, it’s not about protectionism or nationalism from the European viewpoint. Here in Sweden most beef come from, Sweden, Ireland or South America (Brazil, Argentine or Uruguay).
It’s also worth to note that the envirionmental impact of transporting the meat by containership from South America to Sweden is less than impact caused by keeping cattle warm indoors during the Swedish winters.
#6–I thought tariffs were illegal and when imposed the offending country could be sued in the World Court for massive damages. I read cases a few years ago about farming subsidies where that was the fact.
Allowing something into the country with 400% tax added is not making it illegal to import because of health concerns although I recognize that can be a dodge, it can also be legitimate==but it is not a tariff.
So, I “assume” if we are putting on a tariff that we are allowed to do it???
I think tariffs on food to protect home markets is a good thing. Costco sells 2 other types of blue cheese that I don’t like so I’m buying elsewhere now. If it tastes good, I don’t care what its called and I don’t get off on the snob appeal of names.
Because “some” tariffs can be bad doesn’t mean all of them are and the deeper question will always be good and bad for whom? and Short term vs long terms effects of what is deemed good and bad.
Bush has lost his control over the oil market.
Now his only source for income is beef. .. Those Frenchies don’t want my beef, well they can shove their stinky cheese. ..
You can get pretty good blue cheeses from many parts of the world, even Wisconsin. But then a wine and cheese snob who buys using price as their criteria for quality, might not like them.
#22, zeb,
Good summary.
“The EU ban on GM food might help protect the local production, but it’s really not its main goal: public opinion is strongly against GM food, much more than its govt’s, in fact. Experimental GM fields are destroyed by protesters,…”
These people are not just criminals, but total idiots. I place them on the same level as the jerks who refuse to have their children vaccinated.
28,
Do you know anything about the lengths monsanto goes to destroy farmers that DON’T use their crops?
Why should the public be forced to buy GM if they don’t WANT it. In Europe, the people own the government… in the US, the corps own the government. Just imagine what would happen if the US government was of the people, for the people.
28,
Oh, and you’re equating not wanting GM and hormone beef to vaccinations… specious at best, complete idiocy more likely.
#30–named==what is the idiocy equation you negate here? In my view, complaints about GM or vaccination are emotionally driven and contradicted by science.
I think hormones is much more debatable and open and therefore much more open to individual choice==meaning in general it should be allowed but labeled==and in most cases with the labeling killing the product unless it was much cheaper than the alternatives?
But whats your beef specifically?
(I hope someone fixed last night’s database error.)
This one is pretty simple but it depends on which side you want to side on. Hopefully Mr. Fusion won’t blow an illogic gasket again.
The science is still out on whether hormone injected beef cause problems in humans (or the cattle) down the road. The big business run U.S. industry has decided it makes for bigger profits so regardless of any evidence to the contrary, they want this to continue. The European public and the EU take the view that this is risky so until something proves it’s okay, it shouldn’t be done (very hard to do). They’ve asked the U.S. based beef industries to stop importing it. The U.S., speaking up for the big business beef guys said “NO!” A fight ensued. The EU blocked U.S. beef imports, really hitting our beef big business dudes’ pocket books. So, the U.S. took the E.U. to international court. The U.S. won. The E.U. continued to do it anyway and appealed. The E.U. lost so the importing of beef should now be allowed. They continued to ignore the court decisions.
Legality, as expressed by the world court, is on the side of the U.S. even if the public opinion in Europe says otherwise. The E.U. is ignoring the rulings and continuing to ban the U.S. product. Since the world court order is not enforced, Shrub and co. decided to help out their pals by retaliating against the E.U. member France and imposing horrendously high tariffs on Roquefort. It was already a 100% tariff, (2x) now it will be 300% (4x). This will likely be seen as illegal by the world court if it’s taken to court.
So, should the E.U. start importing the beef because it is technically illegal to ban it? I say yes, they should. Then they should label it hormone injected and put nasty warnings on it akin to cigarettes IF their science shows nasty things can happen to you by eating it. Note I say their scientists because the studies in the U.S. don’t show this. However, all the studies I’ve seen were sponsored by our the big business beef dudes here so, just like all “science” done with Shrub and co. and even before that when it came ONLY from the industry which make them quite suspect.
I view this as a case of the E.U. scientists and public likely being right but the science is muddled by nonobjective opinions on both sides. One good study needs to be done by someone sponsored by Consumers Union or some such. (Is there one, anyone?) Of course, this type of study would take a long time to see results as you’d have to look for risk of cancer development and such. Let that study help decide the fate of hormoned food, or at least beef.
We know putting hormones into our bodies can screw you up greatly. We know there is residual hormone levels in hormone injected beef or other products. Therefore, it’s not a great leap to suppose it is likely there will be some adverse affect to us, let alone the animal this is done to. Much of the evidence showing that there is no harm done to humans nor animals is suspect. Therefore, until a good long term study, sponsored by non-industry associated (or without any monetary or political ties to industry) is conducted and concluded, it would be prudent to stop this practice in the U.S. Under Clinton and Shrub, this would never happen. I doubt things will change on this under Obama but one can hope. What he should do though is stop the silly war of tariffs and bans, lift the tariff on the cheese and ask for a study while asking for voluntary ban on hormones, review current evidence to see if there should be a temporary ban on hormone use now while the long term study is done. If the voluntary ban is ignored by the industry, then they will have to deal with whatever the E.U. does, be it massive warning labels or a ban, which I think they should not do because of the prior rulings. The E.U. public won’t buy the stuff with all those warnings anyway so lifting the ban won’t change much.
Remember folks, this isn’t small farmers doing this on their own, it’s foisted by big business which runs most ag now. The only moral big business has is making money. They will do anything and everything to do this regardless of the effect on people or animals to achieve this goal. That’s why big business always need strong regulation by the government. That’s why standards for all business should be established, by use of good, non-biased science should be pushed down from the top by government, because this won’t happen in the industry by itself. This is one of the chief roles of government is safeguarding the U.S. populace. This type of standards development would also benefit the tech industry too. We’d have real “N” now, not just eternal “draft n.” We’d also have a competitive communications infrastructure, not a crumbling behind the curve one.
Lou #28
My opinion about the protesters against Experimental GM fields is more nuancée.
I come from a family of scientists, my mother lost once years of research when the rocket containing “her” scientific satellite exploded at launch: I know what it is to lose a costly and long experiment. And when you know that such experiments are meant to scientifically prove (or not) the dangers of GM food, you can’t love these protesters.
Now, on the other side: these destructions are limited to a few fields, and thought are a communication “coup”: they invite journalists, do not hide, give their names, are put in jail,… and they think that it’s the ONLY way to fight MonSanto&Co, who do very active & expensive lobbying in Bruxelles & European capitals…
And about vaccination: we French have very extensive vaccination regulations ( Pasteur was French ). I agree that people who refuse to vaccinate their children are, if not idiots, at least certainly badly mis-informed. Now, vaccination is not without danger, and never totally safe: in some cases, one can wonder if we wouldn’t better without a vaccine ( we had the case with the tuberculosis vaccine in France)
Bobbo… so you’re now Lou Minatti?
My idiocy equation was for Lou, not you.. unless you are Lou. You cannot compare not wanting hormone injected beef to not wanting vaccinations. It’s intellectually dishonest.
To put it another way, vaccinations have protected society from potential catastrophic illnesses. Not injecting beef with hormones affects ConAgra.
32,
*clap* *clap*
You’re point about EU tendencies to err on the side of caution is a well known difference between the US. In fact, most major pharmaceuticals manufacture two runs of cosmetics… one for EU and one for the US. The EU bans chems that have not been proven safe, while the US bans chems that have been proven unsafe. A subtle, but HUGE difference.
#32–gmknobl==excellent comment, thanks. Let me quibble when you say: “This is one of the chief roles of government is safeguarding the U.S. populace.” /// True when the evidence is “overwhelming.” When the evidence is “muddled” I see no reason why strict labelling laws don’t also comply with a government goal of “informing and providing choice” to the people.
I can see a lot of people agreeing that “hormones do not cause harm” but having philosophical objections to it anyway.
Hormones is NOT LIKE VACCINATIONS which I think is where #33 zebulon goes wrong. Unvaccinated people increase the risk of an outbreak of the disease in question so a decision to go vaccination free is not a question of individual choice alone. Reasonable people can disagree on this point claiming people have a right to be disabled for life.
Let science rule.
#32, gm,
I basically agree with your assessment.
My disagreement, or the part I didn’t see in your post, is that in my opinion the producer should be responsible to prove their technique / product is safe. This is the method pharmaceuticals must use. That has not happened with genetically modified food or hormone induced meats. Testing has not been done to the same degree of safety or non-bias.
Of course even if GM or hormone laced foods are found safe, there will still be many people who won’t want to eat them. A large label, as you suggest, would be a welcome addition in that case.
#34–named. Gee, an number of tangential issues. I think we actually agree on the main issue, so I’ll quibble:
1. I call BS on your post is only for one person. Its a public blog and all are welcomed to chime in. Likewise with whoever said “this site caters to technical folks” etc. Trying to have your values control is just that. Shove off. I recognize I’m only trying to force my values over yours, and so we look to how the blog actually operates: open to all. As “uncensored” a blog that is still reasonably monitored as I have found. I’m right. You are wrong.
2. Any two things can (and should) be compared and contrasted. The intellectually dishonest thing is to claim otherwise. Or, perhaps your intellect, knowledge, and imagination just aren’t up to it, but that is a different issue.
3. Is “society” such a thing that protection regarding illness over individual free choice to expose oneself an overriding concern? I could argue that almost on balance, but like you favor the “right” of society to protect the ignorant, but that is a steep slippery slope I would want a fast hold on.—hence labelling.
Who is really hurt if 3% of population refuses to be vaccinated against polio and 80% of them become afflicted? I had two friends with polio. Pain in the ass for them but I honestly can’t think of much impact on my rights?
3.
36,
As proven in the US already, you are not allowed to label foods as safer or different from others. eg. Hormone free milk. The industry fought against allowing for dairies to label that their milk was free of hormones. Since you cannot prove that there is anything wrong with hormones precisely, they are banned from labeling their milk as hormone free. So, you’re lofty concept of allowing consumers to go and read the package and say “Hmmm beef with hormones or beef without hormones” wouldn’t even get started since ConAgra would not allow it and the FDA / USDA would say “OK! No labelling required!” Same debate over meat irradiation. Another complete scam. They don’t have to label irradiated meat because they say its no different. Well, ain’t that a hoot. Meat irradiation only allows to cover up for poor handling practice. When you gut a cow and you get shit on the meat that cow has to be destroyed since the fecal matter will bloom and contaminate the meat. Now, with the “magic” of irradiation, you can make sure the shit won’t bloom. It will just stay at 100PPM forever. So, yeah, there is shit on your meat, but it’s just a little bit. Why force the industry to have safer handling practices? They won’t like it.
As an aside to that, ConAgra runs meat production for the EU too. And at those times, the meat process line travels MUCH slower since the EU demands certain safe handling practices. The corps cares about money. The US likes unsafe meat with shit? Sell it to them. The EU likes safe meat? They do that too. All they do is charge a little bit more.
Yes, you can compare any two things that you like, but as my argument claimed, it is intellectually dishonest to compare the interests of society (influenza, plague, measels) to the interests of ConAgra getting an extra 300 pounds of meat from a cow. It is foolish to equate them. It’s akin to the pros of wearing seat belts as a safety measure and the rights of GM to charge more for diesel engines. There is no baseline comparisson.
And, aside from you having the incorrect opinion, I’m cool with that. Opinions are like assholes… everyone has one and they all stink.
#39–named==once again, I read your post and find good information and that we basically agree. Such a negative tone you assume. Do you have to have your ass kissed before you can discuss anything?
I assume the irradiated meat ecoli are ppm but they are dead and so just more protein? That may be biologically correct, but should consumers be free to make that choice or not? I think they should, you report that we are not. Well, that raises a political issue==the law should be changed.
I could address more of your post, but since I’m not Lou, I’ll stop waiving that red flag in your bullish face.