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Actually, with the arab reproduction rate within Israel, things will only get much worse. APARTHEID. Now there is a situation that really won’t work as the minority becomes a majority.
I predict an Jewish led expulsion of Israeli Arabs into the surrounding areas for a pure Jewish State as mandated by their history, religion, surrounding belligerencies.
Thinking about it, seems to me, the earlier the better: attack Syria and Jordan and carve back a homeland for the Palestinians. Take back Gaza. Kick the Arabs out of Jeresualem with open visitation to their Holy Sites.
Go for broke-all in, or all out. Better than stuck in the middle with a slow spiral down.
I agree mostly with #1, but also believe that Christian Zionists were and continue to be largely responsible for this mess.
I believe this is caused by People being all the same: identifying tribally with a smaller group on some talisman or another, rather than with the more humanistic whole.
There is no difference between groups, they are all the same, except for ideologies of no consequence except to form the tribe.
A Rocket?
How about thousands of rockets…
Not only is this turd stupid, he can’t count.
Maybe he should have a little chat with the Japanese who remember a couple bombs that messed up their daily routine just a tad.
Proportionate response never won a war. Patton knew how to win them.
#29, Bobbo,
The ARABS in the Palestine area fought in support of the Axis. They Lost. Land given to the victors as so often happens, and the victors gave it to the Jews.
As so often happens, people want to twist history to suit their own current beliefs.
Jews were NOT in Palestine in great numbers until the late 1800s. Small groups, mostly those expelled from Western Europe lived under the protection of the more tolerant Muslims and Ottoman Empire. Then the (mostly) Russian persecution forced more Jews to flee and they often moved to their “holy land”. During WWI the British adopted the policy of settling Jews in Palestine, especially refugees. BUT, as a percentage of the population, they remained very small.
During WWII most Arabs were neutral and very few took up arms against the British. The Arab population were more concerned with the British being their masters than with fighting for Germany who would have been even worse. After the end of the war, the British (and Allies in general) took the position that refugees should be returned to their country of origin. Jewish refugees, most having survived the death camps, started looking at Israel to start their lives over. The British stopped most of the refugees and set up large camps on the island of Crete. This was so unacceptable as almost all the detainees had just been released from German camps.
When Britain, bankrupted by WWII, realized they could no longer afford to support most of her colonies, they gave the problem to the United Nations. It was the UN that decided to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. The main problem with that was that Arabs had many generations on the very land the partition was giving to the Jews. The Jewish immigrants coveted the land the Arabs lived on, strongly believing this was their promised land as well as they were owed by the world because of the Holocaust.
Generally, and there are always exceptions, the collective world guilt fueled by the Holocaust favored the Jews over the Arabs. The world had just allowed six million to die through inactivity, they weren’t about to allow more to die. So the United Nations partition went ahead.
As is too often the case, it is the technologically advanced that win the wars. The Jews were armed with many WWII weapons and many veterans. The Arabs were disorganized as well as being poorly armed and led. The Jewish armies did prevail. Of course, the history books will always tell you how outnumbered the Jews were, but not how well armed they were.
Since the initial fighting, Israel has continued to receive support from the Western Countries and in particular, America. The large Jewish population in the US guarantees Israel will always be supported. While not actively or blatantly supporting Israel militarily, the US does give much behind the scenes support including new weapons, satellite intelligence, and huge loans. Due to the influence of the Israel lobbying efforts and Jewish support groups, it is suicide for any American politician to condemn Israel. About the same as if an American politician stood up and denounced Christianity.
While this is a very quick summary, the main points are that the Arabs did not fight for Germany or against the British. The Arabs were conquered because they were (relatively) unarmed. Israel remains to this day very technologically advanced while the Arab population is purposely kept technologically disadvantaged.
#36 That sums it up.
#36–Fusion==we are in total agreement, just parsing words.
Where do you see the future of Israel going?
What action would YOU take to secure the position of Israel if that were your desire?
#34, benson,
Not only is this turd stupid, he can’t count.
Maybe if you walked in his shoes for one day you might see things a little different.
A total of eight Israelis have been killed by the Palestinian rockets. Israelis that stole Arab land at the point of a gun. Land where heavy tanks guard. from which “settlers” shoot at the Arabs. Thousands of Palestinians have been killed by Israeli atrocities. And you call this guy a “turd”?
Confused: How can anyone “steal” land?
Typical pedantic. Retains lots of data, can’t formulate an idea.
Or go at it from your indicated bias: If you were Palestinian–what would you do to get your land back?==or is that even a good idea?
How about==what would be your long term goal and estimate of hurdles to overcome to achieve a good life for your kiddies?
Any “ideas” at all?
Its a terrible thing on all counts
However one must remember that it is all about “once Muslim Land Always Muslim Land”
Simple as that
Anything else is just window dressing and excuses
So much for simple cartoons and rioting when you have rockets coming over – even now
So much for Amy Goodman / Jimmy Carter / Noam Chomsky – Hamas wants to talk
I did not see Americans rioting when they were so cruelly attacked
Its a terrible thing but then again the Palestinians ( name out of context historically by the way) have to be the greatest saps for having allowed the Iranians to set them them up for being patsies and a diversion for drawing attention from their headlong rush for atomic weapons
But then again the UN is investigating this
Bobbo, Fusion would prefer that Israel be wiped off the map.
Your demographics explain why Israel dropped the West Bank and Gaza.
I’m sure the entire middle east situation can, not only be explained on Dvorak Uncensored, but solved.
Blatant troll bait – nothing more. As though the trollers that ruined this blog aren’t bad enough.
Dvorak Uncensored has gone the way of many other blogs that start out well, only to be taken over by idiots.
John – Do you pay any attention to Dvorak Uncensored, or don’t you care what goes on under your byline?
That’s it for me. I’m out of here.
#42, Lyin’ Mike,
Fusion would prefer that Israel be wiped off the map.
I would? This is why there is such a problem in the Mid-East. The right wing nuts, Jewish apologists, and evangelical creationist blind all have this idea that any action done by Israel is warranted and totally justified. Any suggestion that Israel might be the aggressor is met with attacks such as this.
The Gaza War is Israel’s fault, for understanding that you have to defeat an enemy.
Just look at the recent Iranian response to Obama’s goodwill diplomacy letter.
“This request means Western ideology has become passive, that capitalist thought and the system of domination have failed,” Gholam Hossein Elham was quoted as saying by the Mehr news agency.
“Negotiation is secondary, the main issue is that there is no way but for (the United States) to change,” he added.
Israel realizes that the other side feels negotiation is secondary, the main issue is for Israel to disappear.
No, dumb ass. You fired rockets into Israel and they responded the way you knew they would. You have yourself to blame. If Canada (or any country for that matter) started lobbing rockets into the U.S., what do you think would happen?
#40, Bobbo,
Confused: How can anyone “steal” land?
Simple. You line up a bunch of heavy tanks with their 105 mm guns pointed at the locals, send in a company of soldiers armed with automatic weapons, position several attack helicopters overhead and a few F-16s circling above them. Then you tell the inhabitants they have 15 minutes to gather their belongings. You wait 12 minutes than use a tank with a bulldozer blade on it to level the house.
This method was proven extremely effective by the Israelis during the establishment of most of their “settlements” on Arab land.
Or go at it from your indicated bias: If you were Palestinian–what would you do to get your land back?==or is that even a good idea?
Well first I would present my case to the Israeli courts. It is too bad the Israeli Courts favored the illegal settlers though. Then I would present the case to the world through the United Nations. Well, this was done too. And the UN roundly condemned Israel for its actions. Only the United States vetoed any action in the Security Council.
I guess the answer to “if they should continue to fight to regain their land” is best left to them. Many people though would probably get the attitude that “when you ain’t got nuttin, you got nuttin to lose”.
I am quite sure a middle ground will be found. The first thing is that Palestinians must be treated as equals. Do away with the Apartheid. Do away with the forced detours miles out of their way. Quit destroying any and all Palestinian infrastructure every few years. Quit beating Palestinians for the exercise. Quit stopping clean water, food, medicine, fuel, and necessities of life from reaching the Palestinians.
Now Bobbo, the question to you is what would YOU do to bring peace to Palestine and Israel?
#46, dumbass,
So if the US started firing missiles into Canada, dropping bombs on apartment buildings, set up road blocks so ambulances couldn’t reach the hospital, held their food waiting in the trucks until it spoiled, what would you expect the Canadians to do?
For some reason, I think if the Palestinians were armed with the same weapons as the Israelis they would fight the same way.
#48
Call the Queen and ask for help.
#47–Fusion==you described the past. Still no ideas for what to do. Why study history if you get no ideas from it?
“when you ain’t got nuttin, you got nuttin to lose”==you have your life, the life and future of your kiddies to lose.
The parties are not “equals” in any sense the word is meant to convey. IOW==being equal has nothing to do with the issues at play.
Every inch of land in the world has a history behind it, every inch of land subject to the claim of multiple parties. Only the party willing to hold the land, has the land. You hold the land by killing anyone who wants to take it from you.
Recognizing the realities of the situation, If I were a Palestinian, I would take whatever peace deal I could get and honor it until I, or my great grand kiddies, were in a position to take the land back by force. Stupid to threaten someone more powerful than yourself when you are infact powerless. Really rather stupid and self-destructive.
Stupid people. Stupid Supporters.
#45, Lyin’ Mike,
Defeating a enemy does not include massacres of civilian populations. It also does not include crimes against civilians.
BTW, it is always so much nicer when you cite where you get your quote from. Otherwise it just looks so much more like bullshit.
Were you aware that Israel has strongly advised that government ministers and Generals NOT travel outside of Israel. Apparently they are afraid they will be arrested and taken to the World Court.
How about this gem? The Israelis drop a 2000 lb bomb on an apartment building. And the Israelis defend the idea because they call one of the victims a terrorist. Instead of arresting him, they kill 16 people, including 15 civilians and nine children. The victim is the terrorist?
Now the Israelis are all upset because a proper Court in Spain is investigating the attack as a Crime Against Humanity?
It must really bite to find out that justice will come after the Israelis as it did for the Nazi War Criminals long after they escaped. Kind of ironic.
Several times you claim others want Israel wiped from the face of the earth. Yet here it is Israel trying to eradicate the Palestinians.
#50, Bobbo,
The parties are not “equals” in any sense the word is meant to convey. IOW==being equal has nothing to do with the issues at play.
Completely wrong. That is the entire issue. If you care to justify apartheid you are entitled to, but you can’t deny it is.
You hold the land by killing anyone who wants to take it from you.
We are past that episode in our history. We no longer allow countries to conquer other merely for the land. Maybe it has passed you by, but it is called civilization. Yes, yes, a big word and you will want to parse it into some distorted thing having more to do with pixies than reality.
Today we have the United Nations to air issues and stop fighting. We also have the World Court available to prosecute those who would commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. They aren’t perfect, but they are a far sight better than killing people to keep your land.
If I were a Palestinian, I would take whatever peace deal I could get and honor it until I, or my great grand kiddies, were in a position to take the land back by force.
As I said before, “when you ain’t got nuttin, you got nuttin to lose”. I do not want my children brought up in a world where they are second class citizens. Where disease is more likely than a good education. Where malnutrition is an everyday occurrence. Where escape is unlikely. Where 80% unemployment is the future.
No Bobbo, I don’t think you would accept it. No one in this world is expected to. We did’t allow it to continue for the Jews in Europe. We didn’t allow it to continue for the Blacks in South Africa. And we won’t allow it to continue in Israel.
Telling anyone that they should just accept being a piece of garbage is bullshit garbage itself. We don’t allow those who condone those activities here in America against African Americans. There is no reason to allow it against anyone else. I would have expected you of be better than that.
“WWI is such an example. Germany was left too strong at the end of the war leading directly to WW2.”
You need to review your history. It was the onerous reparations and rampant inflation caused by the collapse of the German economy that laid the groundwork for the dissatisfaction and dissillusion among the people that provided the fertile ground for Hitler’s blame-someone-else-and-take-their-resources recovery plan.
Halt all aid to Israel and give it us US contractors (Blackwater) to clear all Israeli settlements beyond the 1967 borders.
#53–smart==I’d put that at No 2 on the list. Like the Palestinians, you can be treated poorly and harbor great resentment, but you attack when you think you didn’t “really” lose the last time. Its a close call and interactive but if the Allies had marched on to Berlin in WW1 rather than quiting in fatigue, there would have been no WW2 starting with Germany.
#53 “You need to review your history. It was the onerous reparations and rampant inflation caused by the collapse of the German economy that laid the groundwork for the dissatisfaction and dissillusion among the people that provided the fertile ground for Hitler’s blame-someone-else-and-take-their-resources recovery plan.”
You missed the point. As a soldier Hitler and others were dissatisfied with their governments (largely jewish communists at the time) surrender in WW1 because they didn’t feel they were beaten. They thought they had fought too long and too hard to surrender, which is eventually why Hitler used the onerous reparations, rampant inflation, dissatisfaction and dissillusion among the people to his advantage.
#55, bobbo,
I guess you don’t have a clue at all. Do you? By the Treaty of Versailles Germany was stripped of its wealth. Its Emperor was exiled, the Junkers were reduced in power and prestige, and democracy imposed upon the country. Germany had been devastated by the war and the reparations. By the time WWII started, it was no longer the German Empire of the Kaiser, it was a country of enraged fanatics driven by a charismatic leader.
There is no comparison between pre-WWII Germany and the Palestinians. Two and three generations have grown up under the Israeli apartheid regime. Living in abject poverty while seeing the wealth of the Israelis on the land they stole.
If you want to pretend you know a bit of history, try learning a little bit first.
#57–Fusion===ahhhh, the white heat of knowing you are so right. I rarely if ever feel that. How does it feel?
Let me go back and check, just what did I say? – – – – – – Post #29??
Ok Fusion, I give up. You are right==there’s no good reason to refuse surrender from anyone. Seeking unconditional surrender is a waste of time. Leaving armies intact and not occupying a country vs. doing just the opposite makes no difference at all. People DO have moral claims on the right to occupy land based on specific points of time in history.
Gee, I feel much better now. Thanks for the history lesson. When do we give Manhattan back?
#56, Tim,
As a soldier Hitler and others were dissatisfied with their governments (largely jewish communists at the time) surrender in WW1 because they didn’t feel they were beaten.
Wrong. The Germans knew they were beaten. It was Ludendorf, who later was instrumental in forming the Nazi Party with Hitler, that recommended an armistice. Germany was being pushed back on ALL fronts. The fresh American troops were proving themselves. The Allies had tanks and many more and better planes and pilots. The German Army was out of food, weapons, bullets, and men. The German countryside was in even worse shape.
A “Jewish” government is your imagination. Germany was ruled by an Emperor and governed mostly by Junkers (Prussian nobles).
Geeze, just how many people have gone to the Cow-Paddy Republican School of revisionist history.
I have a novel idea – why not ask one of the Arab countries to donate about 5 square miles to the Palestinians for a homeland. Preferably a thousand or so miles away for Israel.
Think of how favorable this Arab country would look to the world by performing this small gesture in an effort to bring peace to the region. Heck, it doesn’t even have to be anything they are presently using.
New land for a new people. Consider the possibilities.