Mustachioed and graying, dressed in the uniform of a full-time job he once had, Gonzalo Garcia is out in front of The Home Depot on Lake Worth Road most mornings, and it doesn’t take much to catch his eye.A braking pickup or the wave of a driver’s hand will send him and several other Hispanic day laborers rushing to the departing vehicle, their eyes bright with the possibility of a day’s work.
Garcia, at 49 a father of four, says he tends to hang back as the younger workers push forward. But his counterparts often run, hoping to be chosen to paint, rip out drywall or lay bricks. The onslaught, a symptom of the voracious competition for dwindling numbers of day jobs, can be surprising to the unsuspecting, and even frightening. In recent years, the Hispanic day laborers have become as much a part of the scenery at The Home Depot west of Lake Worth as the fence and hedges, and as more lose full-time jobs in construction or landscaping, their numbers seem to have grown.
The Home Depot is not pleased. Blaming the job seekers for causing accidents and driving away customers, the world’s largest home improvement retailer has been working to discourage them from rushing vehicles in the driveways and trespassing in the parking lot. But the need for work keeps pushing the men forward, and the result has been an entrenched standoff. Garcia, an undocumented Guatemalan national who had a regular job in construction until being laid off late last year, said he and the others only want to work and have no other way to find steady pay.
“We’re not here because we want to be here,” he said in Spanish. “We need to be.”
After repeated warnings, meetings and occasional trespassing arrests, the sheriff’s office has resorted in recent months to undercover stings to try to keep the laborers in place. The workers are allowed to stand on the sidewalk or along the shoulder in front of the store, which is considered public property. But sheriff’s officials say they get into trouble when they block the entrance or wander past the hedges into the parking lot.
The day laborers are almost all Guatemalans and admit good-naturedly that they occasionally trespass onto The Home Depot’s property. They say there is no other way for them to get the attention of potential hirers. “We’re here for our families,” said Moyno, 22, who came to Florida from Guatemala a year and a half ago and declined to give his last name because he is in the country illegally. “I have a father and mother to support.”
The vast majority of these guys are hard working and honest. But the bottom line is most of these workers are illegal aliens. You can blame who ever you’d like, (Democrats and Republicans) for creating and maybe even encouraging this situation. But these guys are here illegally, pay no taxes, and send the money south of the border. You would think we had a Government Agency in charge of illegal aliens that wouldn’t turn a blind eye to this, but we do, and you have to wonder why.
#28 – find God? I didn’t know he was hiding.
Thomas. I’m not an expert on this, but as I understand it you don’t have to pay any W/H on these guys because they are not your employees.
Yes, they are working for you but as independent contractors. Therefore they would be responsible for their own taxes.
BTW, I hate the IRS. They are still worse then the Gestapo.
I thought in California it was required by law for big box retailers such as HD.. that in order to even get a building permit to build a HD, the location must provide for brown skinned “workers”… a shelter with air conditioning, ample rose smelling w/cs, and fresh coffee and variety of healthy breakfast foods?!?!
I needed some work done on one of our houses and the company I wanted to contract with sent out 4 Spanish speaking gentlemen. They drove all the way from Cincinnati and dug three large holes under the foundation BY HAND. I’m talking large holes.
Do I think they were “legal”? No. Do I care? No. All I know is they did a shit job I wouldn’t consider doing myself and at the end of the day the contractor said they could not do the job and I didn’t pay a dime for the work they did.
When the liberal media starts reporting illegal aliens as illegal aliens instead of poor Mexicans looking for work or some other BS term like the illegal who is suspected of killing Chandra Levy then I’ll worry about.
Republican and Democrat problem for different reasons.
#32, Ah, Yea,
Yes, they are working for you but as independent contractors. Therefore they would be responsible for their own taxes.
Not quite. Even an independent contractor needs a business license. No license? Then they are not a contractor and the employer / owner is responsible for paying the withholding taxes PLUS ensuring the work site meets all the applicable standards as to health and safety.
There has been more than one politician that didn’t pay their nanny or house cleaner’s required taxes and ended up with a big fine.
Yes, I agree that it is a big pain, but, we like everyone to pay their fair share of taxes as well as obey all laws and regulations. Expediency and ignorance of the law are damn poor excuses.
#35, Yes, I agree that it is a big pain, but, we like everyone to pay their fair share of taxes as well as obey all laws and regulations.
Unless it’s socially inconvenient, right?
# 35 Mr. Fusion said, “Not quite. Even an independent contractor needs a business license. No license? Then they are not a contractor and the employer / owner is responsible for paying the withholding taxes”
Umm, wrong again. Icon is an employment status, not a license status. That’s why you can hire the kid next door to mow your lawn and NOT pay taxes AND the kid needs no license. Of course, only business people know these complex employment laws. LOL
#37, Cow-Paddy, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath, Retired Mall Rent-A-Cop, Pretend Constitutional Scholar, Fake California Labor Law Expert, Pseudo Military Historian, Phony Climate Scientist, Leading Troll Extraordinare, Asstrologist, Unintelligent Designer, Cyber Eggspert, Goofy Geographer, Failed Businessman, and President of the “I Hate America Club”
You are such an idiot.
If you hire a licensed contractor to cut your grass and the guy cuts off his foot with the mower, the contractor is responsible. If you hire the kid from next door to do it and he cuts off his foot, YOU are the contractor and totally responsible.
The reason so many people get away with hiring illegals and underage kids is because there is not enough enforcement. If there were, I’m sure you wouldn’t be doing it. Just because you get away with it, such as riding your bicycle on the sidewalk, does not make it legal or even right.
Of course, only business people know these complex employment laws. LOL
Ya right, so how is the poopcycle stand doing?
#36, LibertyPoser,
Unless it’s socially inconvenient, right?
That would be the LEIBERTARIAN response. Everyone else is responsible for their actions except LEIBERTARIAN wing nuts. They get to make up excuses like “Well it’s unconstitutional” or “I don’t vote because they are all the same”.
# 38 Mr. Fusion said, “If you hire the kid from next door to do it and he cuts off his foot, YOU are the contractor and totally responsible.”
And, this has what to do with withholding taxes? Hmm?
#40, Cow-Paddy, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath, Retired Mall Rent-A-Cop, Pretend Constitutional Scholar, Fake California Labor Law Expert, Pseudo Military Historian, Phony Climate Scientist, Leading Troll Extraordinare, Asstrologist, Unintelligent Designer, Cyber Eggspert, Goofy Geographer, Failed Poopcycle Stand Promoter, and President of the “I Hate America Club”
And, this has what to do with withholding taxes? Hmm?
You have to be a big businessman to understand. It’s called “responsibility”.
# 41 Mr. Fusion said, “You have to be a big businessman to understand. It’s called “responsibility”.”
Bzzzt. Wrong. What you wrote has NOTHING to do with paying employee tax withholding. You have NO responsibility to pay employer side taxes for a non-employee. Good thing you have never been a business exec. You’d BK any company you worked for.
Thanks for playing. There’s a box of Rice-a-Roni and a copy of the UCMJ waiting for you…
Paddy-OH==Fusion is mostly correct in the practical effect of all the various laws on the books. Homeowners face a tangle of laws when they invite people on premises to do work. Most of your would be “insulations and protections” have no practical application “but” in the main, unlicensed illegitimate employees don’t exercise their rights against homeowners and THAT is what gives your laws the illusion of legitimacy that you refer to.
Each case stands on its own though.
# 43 bobbo said, “Paddy-OH==Fusion is mostly correct in the practical effect of all the various laws on the books.”
Actually, Fusion was responding to me regarding employment tax withholding. In that, he was 100% wrong.
I’m not arguing the points he brought up after he was shown to be wrong. If I was, I would have talked about the liability aspects and how they are covered.
#44–Paddy==thats a fair point. So–in all 50 states, if a homeowner hires the kid next door to clean his raingutters, do general maintenance and what not, lets say to the tune of several 1000’s dollars, and the kid takes off to Mexico when the tax man calls on him, your understanding of the law is that Mr Homeowner has zero exposure to the government?
#45 – That would be correct. That is why when/if you contract with a gardener and pay him 1000’s a year to come work on your property, you don’t pay employer side withholding. Do you know the difference between an employee and a Independent Contractor?
Now, there might be one or two states that have slight variations on the law but the state leg in this area is modeled on Fed tax law.
#39, Poison Twin,
BWAHAHAHA — I don’t think so, Scooter.
http://tinyurl.com/dcc436
You seem to think it is ok to force stipulations on some but not all just because they are in a difference income class.
How can you be responsible if you aren’t held to the same standards as everyone else?
“I don’t vote because they are all the same”.
ah, but I do vote. I do vote. And more and more people are voting the same way . . . How many Libertarian-minded officials have been elected in the last year? As you don’t know, I’ll tell you — twice as many as have been elected since the party was founded. And more are entering the race everyday. It won’t be long and this country will be back on the right track regardless of what the Republicrats do to it.
#46–Paddy==In your mind, does “Now, there might be one or two states that have slight variations” equate to “Everystate is exactly the opposite?”
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I read all the time about homeowners being liable for all sorts of things when invalid contractors work on premises. If you had more general credibility on these sorts of discussions, I’d look it up, but won’t bother for now as I only hire licensed workers AFTER I take a photo of their license.
To the general public==if you have something to lose, don’t put it at risk.
# 48 bobbo said, “I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I read all the time about homeowners being liable for all sorts of things when invalid contractors work on premises.”
Umm, stick to the subject. Homeowners liability is different than employee taxes. If you are confused and lack a business education, consult a local CPA.
#43, Bobbo,
Fusion is mostly correct in the practical effect of all the various laws on the books. Homeowners face a tangle of laws when they invite people on premises to do work.
Since most States require licenses, when you hire a contractor you are not personally responsible for them. If they are not licensed, then the homeowner is responsible for them as they are now a servant. A servant is your employee.
The whole crux is whether the person is a professional or not. Professionals do have some protections as well other obligations. If you do not hire a professional, then you become the employer. And, basically, all professionals are licensed.
An example would be if a bunch of friends help you move so you supply $20 each, the beer, and pizza as compensation. If one of the helpers accidentally falls off of the porch and breaks his back, it is you he will be suing. Your beer and pizza won’t qualify to immunize you. If you paid a few hundred bucks and got a professional then they are a contractor and are responsible for the injury.
The difference is in the first instance, you are the employer. In the second, the contractor is the employer. BUT, that contractor would still need to licensed.
Of course, there are a ton of “fly by night” contractors out there doing unlicensed work. Usually cheaper than what qualified, licensed contractors could do it for. The States also try to shut these people down all the time. I think “Joe the Plumber” was one of these people.
# 50 Mr. Fusion said, “Since most States require licenses, when you hire a contractor you are not personally responsible for them. If they are not licensed, then the homeowner is responsible for them as they are now a servant. A servant is your employee.”
Wrong again ConFusion. CA requires most to be contractors. That a person is unlicensed doesn’t change the employment status. You are confusing State contractor licensing laws with tax laws covering employment status.
This is a common mistake made by those who have ZERO experience in the business/tax world.
Paddy-Zero==exactly WRONG–as usual.
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:TGS23AvdRXgJ:alachua.govoffice2.com/vertical/Sites/%257B18876D5B-08E9-47AC-B418-696C11E6B6CE%257D/uploads/%257BE45E345E-1E98-4436-8D38-5F0CF6D04167%257D.PDF+homeowners+liability+unlicensed+workers+%22withholding%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
# 52 bobbo said, “Paddy-Zero==exactly WRONG–as usual.”
Umm, no. As usual you demonstrate your inability to read. Reread my response…
Bobbo,
Just to clarify my post #50.
Hiring a contractor will not totally absolve the homeowner of liability as I suggested. There are still the usual pitfalls such as if your dog bites the contractor or one of his employees.
#53,
This is a common mistake made by those who have ZERO experience in the business/tax world.
Actually, Bobbo is quite correct. Read what he posted then come back and tell us what you don’t know.
Good comment Bobbo.
Paddy-O and Fusion.
You are both slightly wrong. Paddy-O is correct in his assertion that state licensing laws have nothing to do with independent contractor status for tax purposes and an employer doesn’t pay an independent contractor’s FICA taxes. Fusion, however is correct in his belief that there is an IRS burden on the employer. The employer is required to file a 1099 form detailing wages paid to an independent contractor.
wisegeek.com/what-is-a-1099-form.htm gives a pretty thorough analysis of the situation.
# 56 smallbusinessowner said, “Fusion, however is correct in his belief that there is an IRS burden on the employer. The employer is required to file a 1099 form detailing wages paid to an independent contractor. ”
Correct. That is an administrative burden, not a tax liability. Unless, you report the expenditure for your own tax deduction purposes, that never comes though.
#56, Smallbusiness,
Thank you. One of the problems is trying to condense a vast amount of material into something concise is you can’t hit every nail.
The specific argument here is that hiring undocumented” workers can be dismissed by appointing one of them a Contractor. Because they are not licensed they remain employees and thus the employer (or homeowner) is responsible for all the administrative tasks including taxes, health and safety, etc. As an aside, the employer is also responsible for verifying they are eligible to work in the US.
I don’t think the requirements of an Independent Contractor apply here.
#57 Unless, you report the expenditure for your own tax deduction purposes, that never comes though.
At that point, you ask for a SSN (or equiv). If they give you one, your responsibility ends.
# 56 smallbusinessowner said, “The employer is required to file a 1099 form detailing wages paid to an independent contractor.”
A side note here. When you hire an ICon, you aren’t an employer. Have you ever been required to file a 1099 when you have a plumber come to you house?