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	<title>Comments on: Supreme Court Knocks Down Virginia Spam Law</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: Paddy-O</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1507306</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy-O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1507306</guid>
		<description># 28 Greg Allen said,  &quot;But, I THINK a labeling law for spam might not violate the first amendment. &quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;Requirements for Commercial Emailers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus61.shtm&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 28 Greg Allen said,  &#8220;But, I THINK a labeling law for spam might not violate the first amendment. &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="Requirements for Commercial Emailers" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus61.shtm' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus61.shtm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1507232</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 02:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1507232</guid>
		<description>I hate spam, too, but aren&#039;t sales pitches free speech?

But, I THINK a labeling law for spam might not violate the first amendment.  

Heck, we have labeling laws for all kinds of other commerce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate spam, too, but aren&#8217;t sales pitches free speech?</p>
<p>But, I THINK a labeling law for spam might not violate the first amendment.  </p>
<p>Heck, we have labeling laws for all kinds of other commerce.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1507130</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1507130</guid>
		<description>My HOPE is that EMAIL spam, ALL email, ISNT anonymous..
If you send email it SHOULD have your name on it, and a LINK to contact you..such as REPLY button should BE.

But another concern is out there..
ADVERTS/SPAM from sites that are infected/trackers/virus/ and so forth..
And how to you TRACK this and find who installed this STUFF on your machine..YOU CANT.  You CANT decline them, but you CAN turn the feature OFF.
The bunch of BAD people that cause problem, are making it a REAL pain for those NICE people that NEED POPUP AND ADVERTS to pay for sites.  This is as bad as a LETTER BOMB in your snail mail...and it HAPPENS MORE OFTEN..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My HOPE is that EMAIL spam, ALL email, ISNT anonymous..<br />
If you send email it SHOULD have your name on it, and a LINK to contact you..such as REPLY button should BE.</p>
<p>But another concern is out there..<br />
ADVERTS/SPAM from sites that are infected/trackers/virus/ and so forth..<br />
And how to you TRACK this and find who installed this STUFF on your machine..YOU CANT.  You CANT decline them, but you CAN turn the feature OFF.<br />
The bunch of BAD people that cause problem, are making it a REAL pain for those NICE people that NEED POPUP AND ADVERTS to pay for sites.  This is as bad as a LETTER BOMB in your snail mail&#8230;and it HAPPENS MORE OFTEN..</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1507028</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1507028</guid>
		<description>Hopefully they care so much about free speech, they&#039;ll also knock out the campaign finance law.

The Obama Administration actually argued that the government could ban movies and books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully they care so much about free speech, they&#8217;ll also knock out the campaign finance law.</p>
<p>The Obama Administration actually argued that the government could ban movies and books.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1507006</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1507006</guid>
		<description>#23, Mr Fusion, and others:

The problems with the examples you cite is that they are illegal &lt;em&gt;per se&lt;/em&gt;, not because they&#039;re speech.  Now it&#039;s true that advertisements and other commercial speech are more regulated than political speech (and obscene speech isn&#039;t protected at all), but &lt;em&gt;Government&lt;/em&gt; prohibitions must still be tailored strictly, without vagueness.

Any anti-spam law will run into 1st Amendment problems because the fact of the matter is we cannot concretely and solidly define &quot;spam&quot; as including &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; that speech which is illegal/reprehensible.  All definitions include some speech which should be prohibited - such as anonymous political implorations.

Now, the day that spam, by itself (and I don&#039;t mean bot-farms, which are also &lt;em&gt;per se&lt;/em&gt; illegal) starts clogging up the tubes, &lt;em&gt;then&lt;/em&gt; we might start to see some legal regulation, as it&#039;s now harming a resource.

As it is, spam is a nuisance, not a threat.  As such, I suggest you follow the advice of the libertarians and simply deal with it.  Plenty of individual software solutions for it.  (I can&#039;t recall the last time I actually received a piece of spam in my inbox, although I do occasionally receive a spamous trackback on my blog.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23, Mr Fusion, and others:</p>
<p>The problems with the examples you cite is that they are illegal <em>per se</em>, not because they&#8217;re speech.  Now it&#8217;s true that advertisements and other commercial speech are more regulated than political speech (and obscene speech isn&#8217;t protected at all), but <em>Government</em> prohibitions must still be tailored strictly, without vagueness.</p>
<p>Any anti-spam law will run into 1st Amendment problems because the fact of the matter is we cannot concretely and solidly define &#8220;spam&#8221; as including <em>only</em> that speech which is illegal/reprehensible.  All definitions include some speech which should be prohibited &#8211; such as anonymous political implorations.</p>
<p>Now, the day that spam, by itself (and I don&#8217;t mean bot-farms, which are also <em>per se</em> illegal) starts clogging up the tubes, <em>then</em> we might start to see some legal regulation, as it&#8217;s now harming a resource.</p>
<p>As it is, spam is a nuisance, not a threat.  As such, I suggest you follow the advice of the libertarians and simply deal with it.  Plenty of individual software solutions for it.  (I can&#8217;t recall the last time I actually received a piece of spam in my inbox, although I do occasionally receive a spamous trackback on my blog.)</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy-O</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506947</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy-O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506947</guid>
		<description># 20 hhopper said,  &quot;Speech is free until it causes problems. You can’t yell. “FIRE!” in a crowded theater… and you shouldn’t be allowed to jam up the Internet with useless crap ads. &quot;

Actually, the &quot;fire&quot; exception has to do with public danger &amp; safety, not inconvenience or &quot;problems&quot;.  This is were you went off the rails and why you have a difficult time understanding the ruling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 20 hhopper said,  &#8220;Speech is free until it causes problems. You can’t yell. “FIRE!” in a crowded theater… and you shouldn’t be allowed to jam up the Internet with useless crap ads. &#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the &#8220;fire&#8221; exception has to do with public danger &amp; safety, not inconvenience or &#8220;problems&#8221;.  This is were you went off the rails and why you have a difficult time understanding the ruling.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506944</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506944</guid>
		<description>#17, Cap&#039;n,

Sorry, but #16, ECA is quite correct.

Currently we do regulate advertising. For example, &quot;Girls Gone Wild&quot; videos are only advertised at night. Cosmetics may not claim untrue properties. Products may not put &quot;New and Improved&quot; on their packages unless it is substantially new and improved. Don&#039;t telephone selling something, I&#039;m on the &quot;Do Not Call List&quot;.

Sending me an email suggesting I can buy my drugs from outside the country has no legal speech protection. An email suggesting a 12 y/o visit a web site to view porn is generally illegal. A penis enlarger that hasn&#039;t been reviewed by the FDA? Buy a degree from an on-line store?

Advertising is not and should not be considered speech. The anonymity considered by the framers dealt with political speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#17, Cap&#8217;n,</p>
<p>Sorry, but #16, ECA is quite correct.</p>
<p>Currently we do regulate advertising. For example, &#8220;Girls Gone Wild&#8221; videos are only advertised at night. Cosmetics may not claim untrue properties. Products may not put &#8220;New and Improved&#8221; on their packages unless it is substantially new and improved. Don&#8217;t telephone selling something, I&#8217;m on the &#8220;Do Not Call List&#8221;.</p>
<p>Sending me an email suggesting I can buy my drugs from outside the country has no legal speech protection. An email suggesting a 12 y/o visit a web site to view porn is generally illegal. A penis enlarger that hasn&#8217;t been reviewed by the FDA? Buy a degree from an on-line store?</p>
<p>Advertising is not and should not be considered speech. The anonymity considered by the framers dealt with political speech.</p>
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		<title>By: bobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506936</link>
		<dc:creator>bobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506936</guid>
		<description>If you can&#039;t read/understand how the courts view &quot;spam&quot; then think of &quot;mass mailings.&quot;

Are you for/against any mass mailing at all?  Eg--Vote for/against some issue?

Solution is simple squirrel:  prohibit unsolicited business (aka commercial speech) emails==just as in now done with phone calls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can&#8217;t read/understand how the courts view &#8220;spam&#8221; then think of &#8220;mass mailings.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you for/against any mass mailing at all?  Eg&#8211;Vote for/against some issue?</p>
<p>Solution is simple squirrel:  prohibit unsolicited business (aka commercial speech) emails==just as in now done with phone calls.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506929</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506929</guid>
		<description>#3, Anom,

&lt;i&gt;That’s not the current Supreme Court lineup&lt;/i&gt;

Ya, but that is one heck of a good looking line-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3, Anom,</p>
<p><i>That’s not the current Supreme Court lineup</i></p>
<p>Ya, but that is one heck of a good looking line-up.</p>
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		<title>By: hhopper</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506869</link>
		<dc:creator>hhopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506869</guid>
		<description>Speech is free until it causes problems.  You can&#039;t yell. &quot;FIRE!&quot; in a crowded theater... and you shouldn&#039;t be allowed to jam up the Internet with useless crap ads.  I don&#039;t see how stopping SPAM is a danger to free speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speech is free until it causes problems.  You can&#8217;t yell. &#8220;FIRE!&#8221; in a crowded theater&#8230; and you shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to jam up the Internet with useless crap ads.  I don&#8217;t see how stopping SPAM is a danger to free speech.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506830</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506830</guid>
		<description>17,
so restrictions that allow us to tell:
Phone adverts
Snail mail adverts
to NOT CALL/MAIL to our address are NOT legal??
OK, I will send my 2 tons of advertising from snail mail to your house this year..
I will send those phone calls to YOUR HOME..Each time they call me, I will find a phone and TELL you what they say, forget caller ID, I will use a different phone EVERY TIME..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>17,<br />
so restrictions that allow us to tell:<br />
Phone adverts<br />
Snail mail adverts<br />
to NOT CALL/MAIL to our address are NOT legal??<br />
OK, I will send my 2 tons of advertising from snail mail to your house this year..<br />
I will send those phone calls to YOUR HOME..Each time they call me, I will find a phone and TELL you what they say, forget caller ID, I will use a different phone EVERY TIME..</p>
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		<title>By: BubbaRay</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506827</link>
		<dc:creator>BubbaRay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506827</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just exactly right. And it&#039;s Hedley, not Hedy.  (Also correct). :)

As large as their guns get, my fortress gets stronger day by day.  NO SPAM!  But they can try and send it all they like, per the 1st Amendment. Like someone else on this blog, I get no spam.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives”</p></blockquote>
<p>Just exactly right. And it&#8217;s Hedley, not Hedy.  (Also correct). <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As large as their guns get, my fortress gets stronger day by day.  NO SPAM!  But they can try and send it all they like, per the 1st Amendment. Like someone else on this blog, I get no spam.</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'nKangaroo</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506818</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'nKangaroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506818</guid>
		<description>sorry #16, but #15 is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry #16, but #15 is right.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506794</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506794</guid>
		<description>12,
DEALING with spam, gives YOU&#039; no rights..
and MOST of it is from OUT of the USA, which does not share our RIGHTS/WRONGS..
And dealing with spam, keeps a lot of people BUSY including hiring people at your ISP to deal with it.  THEN your system has to deal with what gets PAST the ISP..

15,
this is NOT speech..  It is advertising.  FREE speech is THEM posting a web site, and WE finding it.  If we want something, we can WEED our way threw the NEt and find it..
Just like you going DOWN to the stores to find a NEW refrigerator.  YOU SHOP.  Adverts are fine, they point you to locations, and PROBABLY NOT the best price.
BUT, we can ask the STORE not to send us ADVERTS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12,<br />
DEALING with spam, gives YOU&#8217; no rights..<br />
and MOST of it is from OUT of the USA, which does not share our RIGHTS/WRONGS..<br />
And dealing with spam, keeps a lot of people BUSY including hiring people at your ISP to deal with it.  THEN your system has to deal with what gets PAST the ISP..</p>
<p>15,<br />
this is NOT speech..  It is advertising.  FREE speech is THEM posting a web site, and WE finding it.  If we want something, we can WEED our way threw the NEt and find it..<br />
Just like you going DOWN to the stores to find a NEW refrigerator.  YOU SHOP.  Adverts are fine, they point you to locations, and PROBABLY NOT the best price.<br />
BUT, we can ask the STORE not to send us ADVERTS.</p>
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		<title>By: doug</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/03/31/supreme-court-knocks-down-virginia-spam-law/comment-page-1/#comment-1506790</link>
		<dc:creator>doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=44848#comment-1506790</guid>
		<description>anonymous speech is protected by the First Amendment.  The Framers (including those who published under names like &#039;Publicus&#039; and &#039;Federalist Farmer&#039;), knew that.  Prohibiting anonymous speech is one step away from licensing the press, and free speech includes freedom for speech you find obnoxious and annoying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anonymous speech is protected by the First Amendment.  The Framers (including those who published under names like &#8216;Publicus&#8217; and &#8216;Federalist Farmer&#8217;), knew that.  Prohibiting anonymous speech is one step away from licensing the press, and free speech includes freedom for speech you find obnoxious and annoying.</p>
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