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	<title>Comments on: 2700 Emergency Room Visits and a $3 Million Tab attributed to just 9 People!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-7/#comment-1508590</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 02:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508590</guid>
		<description>Here, more literacy for you. The problem with the welfare (non tax-paying) patient care http://tinyurl.com/cqacyk

It doesn&#039;t work because the government keeps cutting budgets (and politicians keep on stealing funds).

Because those things won&#039;t happens in the US, right?

In Canada, many provinces are thinking and allowing private practices (all but abolished in the 70&#039;s) to return because the government cannot keep up with the costs.

But you should get what you wish and live to regret it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, more literacy for you. The problem with the welfare (non tax-paying) patient care <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cqacyk" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tinyurl.com/cqacyk' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cqacyk</a></p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t work because the government keeps cutting budgets (and politicians keep on stealing funds).</p>
<p>Because those things won&#8217;t happens in the US, right?</p>
<p>In Canada, many provinces are thinking and allowing private practices (all but abolished in the 70&#8242;s) to return because the government cannot keep up with the costs.</p>
<p>But you should get what you wish and live to regret it.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-7/#comment-1508585</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 02:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508585</guid>
		<description>#123 No literacy troubles at all. I know the IMSS and it is what you want as your social security. The government takes money from people and makes hospitals out of that. You also get medical attention at IMSS hospitals with your payment. Real crappy attention with some exceptions.

The private/government part is described as social security patients (payed by the government) that get attention in private hospitals. Most of the times they are referred to a private facility is because the IMSS is either swamped with delayed schedule (months of backlog), IMSS hospitaks don&#039;t have the advanced equipment needed for a test or a particular surgery is only performed at the private institution.

But private hospitals are that, no government oversight on what they charge unless the patient they&#039;re attending comes from the IMSS.

Otherwise is called welfare. Those not covered in the social security are people that don&#039;t pay taxes. 

No wonder you&#039;re so confused with the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#123 No literacy troubles at all. I know the IMSS and it is what you want as your social security. The government takes money from people and makes hospitals out of that. You also get medical attention at IMSS hospitals with your payment. Real crappy attention with some exceptions.</p>
<p>The private/government part is described as social security patients (payed by the government) that get attention in private hospitals. Most of the times they are referred to a private facility is because the IMSS is either swamped with delayed schedule (months of backlog), IMSS hospitaks don&#8217;t have the advanced equipment needed for a test or a particular surgery is only performed at the private institution.</p>
<p>But private hospitals are that, no government oversight on what they charge unless the patient they&#8217;re attending comes from the IMSS.</p>
<p>Otherwise is called welfare. Those not covered in the social security are people that don&#8217;t pay taxes. </p>
<p>No wonder you&#8217;re so confused with the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Misanthropic Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-7/#comment-1508573</link>
		<dc:creator>Misanthropic Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 02:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508573</guid>
		<description>Having trouble with literacy pedro?

http://tinyurl.com/djn7b8

&lt;blockquote&gt;While the health of Mexicans has increased in the last four generations, there are millions of citizens who still do not have regular access to health care services. Mexico has adopted a pluralistic health care system. It consists of a combination of public and private health insurance programs. Of the 6.6% of government revenue spent on health, this provides only health insurance to 40% of the population who are privately employed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Half of Mexican citizens are uninsured and even more pay health costs out of their own pockets. For some families, more than a third of their income goes towards paying for medical needs&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Try again pedro; perhaps in a country with socialized medicine they could do a brain transplant to replace your defective one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having trouble with literacy pedro?</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/djn7b8" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tinyurl.com/djn7b8' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/djn7b8</a></p>
<blockquote><p>While the health of Mexicans has increased in the last four generations, there are millions of citizens who still do not have regular access to health care services. Mexico has adopted a pluralistic health care system. It consists of a combination of public and private health insurance programs. Of the 6.6% of government revenue spent on health, this provides only health insurance to 40% of the population who are privately employed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Also:</p>
<blockquote><p>Half of Mexican citizens are uninsured and even more pay health costs out of their own pockets. For some families, more than a third of their income goes towards paying for medical needs</p></blockquote>
<p>Try again pedro; perhaps in a country with socialized medicine they could do a brain transplant to replace your defective one.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-7/#comment-1508440</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508440</guid>
		<description>#120 Well, it seems you&#039;re the one who&#039;s lost...it completely. Whether you like it or not, that is the Mexican Social Security, which is what you want for your country.

Is not my &quot;standard&quot; that IS social security. Or why else do you think their name stands for? http://tinyurl.com/cmyog6

And it has absolutely nothing to do with what you have in the US. Which is kinda funny that you show what you have now in the US, since you clearly want what Mexico has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#120 Well, it seems you&#8217;re the one who&#8217;s lost&#8230;it completely. Whether you like it or not, that is the Mexican Social Security, which is what you want for your country.</p>
<p>Is not my &#8220;standard&#8221; that IS social security. Or why else do you think their name stands for? <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cmyog6" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tinyurl.com/cmyog6' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cmyog6</a></p>
<p>And it has absolutely nothing to do with what you have in the US. Which is kinda funny that you show what you have now in the US, since you clearly want what Mexico has.</p>
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		<title>By: collectivemed</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-7/#comment-1508427</link>
		<dc:creator>collectivemed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508427</guid>
		<description>Solving the problem of ED abuse (whether intentional or not) is very difficult. Patients over utilize an ED for a variety of reasons such as mental illness, drug abuse/diversion, no insurance, no primary physician, and a lack of understanding of the function of an ED (i.e. thinking that having a cold warrants going to the ED). Talking about sending ED power users away or denying them service is not realistic because 1) EDs are required by law to treat all patients 2) that does not help those who do have problems (like mental illness). Furthermore, as everyone is aware, discussion like that gets very politically charged and tends to just turn into a flame fest. The key is finding the appropriate treatment for these patients. For some patients (those who purposefully abuse the ED to get narcotics) that means treating them with out narcotics; for those that are with out insurance that may mean getting them signed up for Medicaid; for others that are mentally ill it may mean getting them in touch with the appropriate social services. Unfortunately, this is much easier said then done and EDs often do not have the technology or proper understanding of the problem to implement effective solutions.

However, EDs are awakening to the problems of patient over utilization. My company, Collective Medical Technologies, has been working on this very issue with several hospitals in the state of Washing. We are seeing very promising results in both reducing  non-emergent/abusive visits to the ED as well as getting the appropriate treatment to patients. In some cases we have been able to reduce visits by 60% (and this is without denying a single patient treatment or service).

Adam Green

President
Collective Medical Technologies
www.collectivemedicaltech.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solving the problem of ED abuse (whether intentional or not) is very difficult. Patients over utilize an ED for a variety of reasons such as mental illness, drug abuse/diversion, no insurance, no primary physician, and a lack of understanding of the function of an ED (i.e. thinking that having a cold warrants going to the ED). Talking about sending ED power users away or denying them service is not realistic because 1) EDs are required by law to treat all patients 2) that does not help those who do have problems (like mental illness). Furthermore, as everyone is aware, discussion like that gets very politically charged and tends to just turn into a flame fest. The key is finding the appropriate treatment for these patients. For some patients (those who purposefully abuse the ED to get narcotics) that means treating them with out narcotics; for those that are with out insurance that may mean getting them signed up for Medicaid; for others that are mentally ill it may mean getting them in touch with the appropriate social services. Unfortunately, this is much easier said then done and EDs often do not have the technology or proper understanding of the problem to implement effective solutions.</p>
<p>However, EDs are awakening to the problems of patient over utilization. My company, Collective Medical Technologies, has been working on this very issue with several hospitals in the state of Washing. We are seeing very promising results in both reducing  non-emergent/abusive visits to the ED as well as getting the appropriate treatment to patients. In some cases we have been able to reduce visits by 60% (and this is without denying a single patient treatment or service).</p>
<p>Adam Green</p>
<p>President<br />
Collective Medical Technologies<br />
<a href="http://www.collectivemedicaltech.com" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.collectivemedicaltech.com' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.collectivemedicaltech.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Misanthropic Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508377</link>
		<dc:creator>Misanthropic Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 14:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508377</guid>
		<description>#119 - pedro,

Well, if that&#039;s your standard, then we also already have government run health care. Next time you&#039;re in NYC and in need of a hospital, Check out Bellevue; I think it&#039;ll be every bit as good as Mexico&#039;s hospitals ... and not much better.

Either way, by your standard, you&#039;ve already lost. We have that level of government health care and more with medicare and medicaid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#119 &#8211; pedro,</p>
<p>Well, if that&#8217;s your standard, then we also already have government run health care. Next time you&#8217;re in NYC and in need of a hospital, Check out Bellevue; I think it&#8217;ll be every bit as good as Mexico&#8217;s hospitals &#8230; and not much better.</p>
<p>Either way, by your standard, you&#8217;ve already lost. We have that level of government health care and more with medicare and medicaid.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508135</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508135</guid>
		<description>#118 Sorry, but Mexico has Governmet-run Hospitals &amp; Social Security. They have them all over Mexico. The Government gets involved in the purchase of everything from band-aids to MRI&#039;s for these hospitals. 95% of them suck.

There has been government run health care all around latin america. 

I think you should model the US social medicine with the Mexican model. It&#039;ll be swell. Maybe that&#039;s why there are so many illegal gringo&#039;s in Mexico, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#118 Sorry, but Mexico has Governmet-run Hospitals &amp; Social Security. They have them all over Mexico. The Government gets involved in the purchase of everything from band-aids to MRI&#8217;s for these hospitals. 95% of them suck.</p>
<p>There has been government run health care all around latin america. </p>
<p>I think you should model the US social medicine with the Mexican model. It&#8217;ll be swell. Maybe that&#8217;s why there are so many illegal gringo&#8217;s in Mexico, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Misanthropic Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508104</link>
		<dc:creator>Misanthropic Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508104</guid>
		<description>#117 - pedro,

You&#039;re probably right about that (and little else).

With the exception of the United States, every developed democratic nation in the world has some form of universal health care, as does most of the developing world. In fact, the only two countries I can name without it are the U.S. and Mexico.

Anyone else have list of the nations that still have only private health care? I&#039;ve been unable to find one. Perhaps because it would make for extremely light reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#117 &#8211; pedro,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably right about that (and little else).</p>
<p>With the exception of the United States, every developed democratic nation in the world has some form of universal health care, as does most of the developing world. In fact, the only two countries I can name without it are the U.S. and Mexico.</p>
<p>Anyone else have list of the nations that still have only private health care? I&#8217;ve been unable to find one. Perhaps because it would make for extremely light reading.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508088</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508088</guid>
		<description>I think they have socialized medicine in those three places you mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they have socialized medicine in those three places you mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508035</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508035</guid>
		<description>Cow-Patty, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath, Retired Mall Rent-A-Cop, Pretend Constitutional Scholar, Fake California Labor Law Expert, Pseudo Military Historian, Phony Climate Scientist, Real Leading Troll Extraordinare, and now an International Copyright Specialist. 

Your whole idea that a social use of tax payer money is slavery is bullshit. The cost of being a member of society is we all contribute. If you don&#039;t want to be a member of society, please don&#039;t let the door hit your butt on the way out. I&#039;m sure that places like North Korea, Singapore, and China would gladly love someone with your mind set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cow-Patty, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath, Retired Mall Rent-A-Cop, Pretend Constitutional Scholar, Fake California Labor Law Expert, Pseudo Military Historian, Phony Climate Scientist, Real Leading Troll Extraordinare, and now an International Copyright Specialist. </p>
<p>Your whole idea that a social use of tax payer money is slavery is bullshit. The cost of being a member of society is we all contribute. If you don&#8217;t want to be a member of society, please don&#8217;t let the door hit your butt on the way out. I&#8217;m sure that places like North Korea, Singapore, and China would gladly love someone with your mind set.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1508033</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1508033</guid>
		<description>#97, Lyin&#039; Mike,

&lt;i&gt;Scott, it is basic math. If the population is aging, and this is the part that uses more health care, then you can expect higher costs.&lt;/i&gt;

Mike, it is basic math. If Americans pay $&lt;i&gt;X&lt;/i&gt; every year towards health care then why would it matter if that $&lt;i&gt;X&lt;/i&gt; goes towards a bloated private, poorly run system or a government run efficient system. We are still paying $&lt;i&gt;X&lt;/i&gt;. The only difference for your pocket would be where that contribution goes.

Before you claim that the government would only waste the money, think again. Currently 25 to 35% of health care dollars go into bureaucracy and profit. Ontario Canada&#039;s health care program runs with less than 1% overhead and NO profit. That alone would pay for all those without insurance and the under insured. 

As for the aging population, regardless of who is paying, they will still be there. The difference is as they retire, someone other than their private insurance company is going to have to cover them. So while the private insurers get the more healthy (and profitable) younger clients, the government has to pay for the older, more expensive people. Now that is a neo-con ideology if there ever was one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#97, Lyin&#8217; Mike,</p>
<p><i>Scott, it is basic math. If the population is aging, and this is the part that uses more health care, then you can expect higher costs.</i></p>
<p>Mike, it is basic math. If Americans pay $<i>X</i> every year towards health care then why would it matter if that $<i>X</i> goes towards a bloated private, poorly run system or a government run efficient system. We are still paying $<i>X</i>. The only difference for your pocket would be where that contribution goes.</p>
<p>Before you claim that the government would only waste the money, think again. Currently 25 to 35% of health care dollars go into bureaucracy and profit. Ontario Canada&#8217;s health care program runs with less than 1% overhead and NO profit. That alone would pay for all those without insurance and the under insured. </p>
<p>As for the aging population, regardless of who is paying, they will still be there. The difference is as they retire, someone other than their private insurance company is going to have to cover them. So while the private insurers get the more healthy (and profitable) younger clients, the government has to pay for the older, more expensive people. Now that is a neo-con ideology if there ever was one.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1507947</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1507947</guid>
		<description>#101 So you just want to select whom to give your money. So does Paddy. You lose.

#104 How could you? If you spend so much time drinking kool-aid...

#111 You&#039;re getting desperate. Proof that you lost the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#101 So you just want to select whom to give your money. So does Paddy. You lose.</p>
<p>#104 How could you? If you spend so much time drinking kool-aid&#8230;</p>
<p>#111 You&#8217;re getting desperate. Proof that you lost the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1507933</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1507933</guid>
		<description>Funny I went ten years without any health insurance.  I didn&#039;t consider myself &#039;in crisis&#039; or choosing food instead of health care.  It was a risk I felt worth taking.  THe new HSA plans look good, and I&#039;ll probably take one of those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny I went ten years without any health insurance.  I didn&#8217;t consider myself &#8216;in crisis&#8217; or choosing food instead of health care.  It was a risk I felt worth taking.  THe new HSA plans look good, and I&#8217;ll probably take one of those.</p>
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		<title>By: Misanthropic Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1507931</link>
		<dc:creator>Misanthropic Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1507931</guid>
		<description>#110, 108, Paddy-troll,

You&#039;re a liberal now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#110, 108, Paddy-troll,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re a liberal now?</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy-O</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/02/2700-emergency-room-visits-and-a-3-million-tab-attributed-to-just-9-people/comment-page-6/#comment-1507927</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy-O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=45018#comment-1507927</guid>
		<description>#109 LOL!

Trying to get a liberal to give a straight answer to a VERY simple question is like herding cats.  Is it part of the mental illness that goes along with the belief system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#109 LOL!</p>
<p>Trying to get a liberal to give a straight answer to a VERY simple question is like herding cats.  Is it part of the mental illness that goes along with the belief system?</p>
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