<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Email Spam Is Harming The Environment With Its Carbon Footprint?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:18:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: soundwash</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1519135</link>
		<dc:creator>soundwash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 13:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1519135</guid>
		<description>/LED light bulb 

 instead of carbon fraudsters, how about 

CO² = Carbon Oligarchy² -tada!

meh, wont matter a hill of beans anyway if they
raise the &quot;panic pandemic&quot; to 6 next week.

coupled with commercial real estate imploding,
if they move to travel restrictions/marshal law on top it, there will be no economy left to
&quot;make Green&quot; -we&#039;ll be sunk by summer&#039;s end, if we even make it that far.

actually, the flu is the perfect &quot;green&quot; -they&#039;ll lock us all in our homes (or worse) and consumption will drop like rock. kinda the same net effect, no?

(ok, i haven&#039;t had my coffee yet, if none of that makes sense)

(they&#039;re coming to take me away, ha ha! -they&#039;re comi..)

-s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/LED light bulb </p>
<p> instead of carbon fraudsters, how about </p>
<p>CO² = Carbon Oligarchy² -tada!</p>
<p>meh, wont matter a hill of beans anyway if they<br />
raise the &#8220;panic pandemic&#8221; to 6 next week.</p>
<p>coupled with commercial real estate imploding,<br />
if they move to travel restrictions/marshal law on top it, there will be no economy left to<br />
&#8220;make Green&#8221; -we&#8217;ll be sunk by summer&#8217;s end, if we even make it that far.</p>
<p>actually, the flu is the perfect &#8220;green&#8221; -they&#8217;ll lock us all in our homes (or worse) and consumption will drop like rock. kinda the same net effect, no?</p>
<p>(ok, i haven&#8217;t had my coffee yet, if none of that makes sense)</p>
<p>(they&#8217;re coming to take me away, ha ha! -they&#8217;re comi..)</p>
<p>-s</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nimby</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1519013</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 00:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1519013</guid>
		<description>#29 - By driving that 13 year old car, you may have reduced your carbon footprint but you have also been a bad consumer. As a result of your personal inaction, thousands of autoworkers and support personnel are out of business. Aren&#039;t you ashamed of yourself? Because of you, Oblahblahblahma will probably have to print another trillion bucks. And do you realize what the carbon footprint of the US Mint is like? 

In general, I think spam is a terrible waste of resources. We should go back to junk mail. http://tiny.cc/1gGc9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29 &#8211; By driving that 13 year old car, you may have reduced your carbon footprint but you have also been a bad consumer. As a result of your personal inaction, thousands of autoworkers and support personnel are out of business. Aren&#8217;t you ashamed of yourself? Because of you, Oblahblahblahma will probably have to print another trillion bucks. And do you realize what the carbon footprint of the US Mint is like? </p>
<p>In general, I think spam is a terrible waste of resources. We should go back to junk mail. <a href="http://tiny.cc/1gGc9" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tiny.cc/1gGc9' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tiny.cc/1gGc9</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JimR</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518987</link>
		<dc:creator>JimR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 22:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518987</guid>
		<description>#29... good post. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29&#8230; good post. <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Common_Sense</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518962</link>
		<dc:creator>Common_Sense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 20:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518962</guid>
		<description>#25 has it right - and wrong. Right that you&#039;re foolish if you don&#039;t factor in the energy and environment cost of producing &quot;energy-saving&quot; devices. A more efficient fridge would save me money eventually, but my current fridge still works, and the manufacturing impact of the new one has to be considered as well. This is the same reason I drive a 13 year old car that gets 40+mpg, even though the Prius would technically be more efficient. If I drive a 10mpg truck, it might be a net-win to &quot;trade-up&quot; -- but no way it&#039;s better for the environment for me to trade, especially since my car would almost certainly be stripped and recycled, at best, and not repurchased at this point.

But #25 is also wrong. All of IT comes at an energy cost. But It&#039;s net impact can be green - but it&#039;s all relative to what you assume the world would look like without it. For example, relative to how we used to do business, how many tons of carbon are saved by the phone and internet data structure by preventing people from needing to meet face-to-face? Every web-based training or conference call, every commute not driven by those of us who telecommute... Or what about advances in green design or technology that result from application of computer technology - more efficient blades for wind turbines or better LED lightbulbs, more efficient transport and storage technology, whatever it might be -- often designed using computer modeling, by people collaborating from across the globe that might otherwise never be able to spark each other&#039;s innovative ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#25 has it right &#8211; and wrong. Right that you&#8217;re foolish if you don&#8217;t factor in the energy and environment cost of producing &#8220;energy-saving&#8221; devices. A more efficient fridge would save me money eventually, but my current fridge still works, and the manufacturing impact of the new one has to be considered as well. This is the same reason I drive a 13 year old car that gets 40+mpg, even though the Prius would technically be more efficient. If I drive a 10mpg truck, it might be a net-win to &#8220;trade-up&#8221; &#8212; but no way it&#8217;s better for the environment for me to trade, especially since my car would almost certainly be stripped and recycled, at best, and not repurchased at this point.</p>
<p>But #25 is also wrong. All of IT comes at an energy cost. But It&#8217;s net impact can be green &#8211; but it&#8217;s all relative to what you assume the world would look like without it. For example, relative to how we used to do business, how many tons of carbon are saved by the phone and internet data structure by preventing people from needing to meet face-to-face? Every web-based training or conference call, every commute not driven by those of us who telecommute&#8230; Or what about advances in green design or technology that result from application of computer technology &#8211; more efficient blades for wind turbines or better LED lightbulbs, more efficient transport and storage technology, whatever it might be &#8212; often designed using computer modeling, by people collaborating from across the globe that might otherwise never be able to spark each other&#8217;s innovative ideas?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518905</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 15:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518905</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; strukhoff said, 
&gt;&gt; Accurate. IT ain’t green. In fact, nothing is really green. Me driving my old Odyssey today is greener than the smug Prius driver, because I didn’t just spend $25K for a new car and all the non-Green manufacturing that went into it.

Accurate.

But you could buy a Prius next time. 

Better is to park it and start walking, biking or taking mass transit to work.

And vote for mass transit and bike lanes the next time a initiative come to your ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; strukhoff said,<br />
&gt;&gt; Accurate. IT ain’t green. In fact, nothing is really green. Me driving my old Odyssey today is greener than the smug Prius driver, because I didn’t just spend $25K for a new car and all the non-Green manufacturing that went into it.</p>
<p>Accurate.</p>
<p>But you could buy a Prius next time. </p>
<p>Better is to park it and start walking, biking or taking mass transit to work.</p>
<p>And vote for mass transit and bike lanes the next time a initiative come to your ballot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cc_really_P</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518797</link>
		<dc:creator>cc_really_P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 09:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518797</guid>
		<description>Hummm, sounds like the RIAA statisctis from losed revenues by torrents...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hummm, sounds like the RIAA statisctis from losed revenues by torrents&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: deowll</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518785</link>
		<dc:creator>deowll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 08:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518785</guid>
		<description>Spam takes energy to send and filter. If people could charge the sender for email they didn&#039;t want even if it was just a penny a lot of spammers would be out of business as to whom to charge the people selling the product. 

Yeah I know, spammers would fight back by sending spam that resulted in the innocent being billed. Still if nobody was paying for spam...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam takes energy to send and filter. If people could charge the sender for email they didn&#8217;t want even if it was just a penny a lot of spammers would be out of business as to whom to charge the people selling the product. </p>
<p>Yeah I know, spammers would fight back by sending spam that resulted in the innocent being billed. Still if nobody was paying for spam&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: strukhoff</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518695</link>
		<dc:creator>strukhoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 01:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518695</guid>
		<description>Accurate. IT ain&#039;t green. In fact, nothing is really green. Me driving my old Odyssey today is greener than the smug Prius driver, because I didn&#039;t just spend $25K for a new car and all the non-Green manufacturing that went into it. Some day everyone will emerge from this pandemic Green coma, I hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accurate. IT ain&#8217;t green. In fact, nothing is really green. Me driving my old Odyssey today is greener than the smug Prius driver, because I didn&#8217;t just spend $25K for a new car and all the non-Green manufacturing that went into it. Some day everyone will emerge from this pandemic Green coma, I hope.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: soundwash</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518679</link>
		<dc:creator>soundwash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 00:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518679</guid>
		<description>#20 

ps.. one of the main reasons i call it fraud
is due the huge amount of solar, solar system, magnetic and &quot;galactic&quot; or galaxy wide data that is completely ignored by (science) politicos when gathering metrics to try and explain the anomalous weather (ie global warming) and justification of using CO2 as the sole culprit of human driven warming.

to wit, here is an excellent article (though long) that shows so much more needs to be taken into account when discussing the changes we are seeing planet wide, on many fronts.
(warming is not the focus, but is discussed)

&quot;The Emerging Sunspot Cycle 24 and a Weakening Magnetic Field&quot;

What does this mean for our planet and species?

http://tinyurl.com/apcefg

-s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20 </p>
<p>ps.. one of the main reasons i call it fraud<br />
is due the huge amount of solar, solar system, magnetic and &#8220;galactic&#8221; or galaxy wide data that is completely ignored by (science) politicos when gathering metrics to try and explain the anomalous weather (ie global warming) and justification of using CO2 as the sole culprit of human driven warming.</p>
<p>to wit, here is an excellent article (though long) that shows so much more needs to be taken into account when discussing the changes we are seeing planet wide, on many fronts.<br />
(warming is not the focus, but is discussed)</p>
<p>&#8220;The Emerging Sunspot Cycle 24 and a Weakening Magnetic Field&#8221;</p>
<p>What does this mean for our planet and species?</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/apcefg" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://tinyurl.com/apcefg' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/apcefg</a></p>
<p>-s</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nimby</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518673</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 00:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518673</guid>
		<description># 16 Mr. Fusion said, &quot;...so those like Alphie don’t go on a shooting spree at their local atheist hangout.&quot; Don&#039;t be silly. Alfie would shoot up the Natural History Museum.


# 18 JimR said, &quot;...friction and heat, somewhat lowering home heating bills.&quot; Oh, yeah? Well, here in the tropics that friction and heat drives up A/C bills. So, if you save on heating and we spend on A/C, does that mean porn is carbon neutral?

As to the article, I&#039;m sure spam contributes to energy usage. But, McAfee is in the business of selling anti-spam software (bloated and ineffective as it is). But, remembering Disraeli&quot; lies, damned lies and statistics. You can literally prove anything (except that Alfie is an intelligently-designed creature) by parsing the stats. I suspect JimR&#039;s stats are closer to reality than McAfee&#039;s. I&#039;m always surprised when I go online to check my email (instead of using Thunderbird locally) and see that spam folder with thousands of messages! I don&#039;t read &#039;em. And I don&#039;t have time to screen them to be sure they&#039;re spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 16 Mr. Fusion said, &#8220;&#8230;so those like Alphie don’t go on a shooting spree at their local atheist hangout.&#8221; Don&#8217;t be silly. Alfie would shoot up the Natural History Museum.</p>
<p># 18 JimR said, &#8220;&#8230;friction and heat, somewhat lowering home heating bills.&#8221; Oh, yeah? Well, here in the tropics that friction and heat drives up A/C bills. So, if you save on heating and we spend on A/C, does that mean porn is carbon neutral?</p>
<p>As to the article, I&#8217;m sure spam contributes to energy usage. But, McAfee is in the business of selling anti-spam software (bloated and ineffective as it is). But, remembering Disraeli&#8221; lies, damned lies and statistics. You can literally prove anything (except that Alfie is an intelligently-designed creature) by parsing the stats. I suspect JimR&#8217;s stats are closer to reality than McAfee&#8217;s. I&#8217;m always surprised when I go online to check my email (instead of using Thunderbird locally) and see that spam folder with thousands of messages! I don&#8217;t read &#8216;em. And I don&#8217;t have time to screen them to be sure they&#8217;re spam.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: soundwash</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518657</link>
		<dc:creator>soundwash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 23:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518657</guid>
		<description>#20, why thank you. i&#039;ll rush to trademark it straight away and prep to start a wave frivolous lawsuits. 

i was going to go with carbon nazis, but felt it wouldn&#039;t do nazis justice. happy? 

-s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20, why thank you. i&#8217;ll rush to trademark it straight away and prep to start a wave frivolous lawsuits. </p>
<p>i was going to go with carbon nazis, but felt it wouldn&#8217;t do nazis justice. happy? </p>
<p>-s</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-2/#comment-1518653</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 23:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518653</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; chuck said, 
&gt;&gt; I work at home, and use the internet to remotely connect to my office. Does that mean the extra electricity be used to handle the data transfer is producing more carbon that if I drive to work?

More carbon? Not likely but possible. How much gas do you burn on your commute?  If you bike or walk to work, that changes the whole equation.

If you heat your home while you stay home, that creates carbon because you normally could turn off the heat.  (or cool, in the summer.) ALso, of course, lights, computer, whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; chuck said,<br />
&gt;&gt; I work at home, and use the internet to remotely connect to my office. Does that mean the extra electricity be used to handle the data transfer is producing more carbon that if I drive to work?</p>
<p>More carbon? Not likely but possible. How much gas do you burn on your commute?  If you bike or walk to work, that changes the whole equation.</p>
<p>If you heat your home while you stay home, that creates carbon because you normally could turn off the heat.  (or cool, in the summer.) ALso, of course, lights, computer, whatever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-1/#comment-1518651</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 23:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518651</guid>
		<description>&quot;carbon fraudsters&quot; -- that&#039;s a new one to me!

No doubt from the same people who brought us the delightful &quot;Femi-Nazies&quot; &quot;IslamFascists&quot; &quot;enhanced interrogation&quot; &quot;PC Police&quot;  &quot;extrajudicial renditions&quot;  and, the big three trillion dollar whopper, &quot;weapons of mass destruction technology enhancement program intentions&quot;  (or whatever the hell the conservatives finally used to justify an unjustifiable war.)

I have to give conservatives credit for clever but empty spinning of English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;carbon fraudsters&#8221; &#8212; that&#8217;s a new one to me!</p>
<p>No doubt from the same people who brought us the delightful &#8220;Femi-Nazies&#8221; &#8220;IslamFascists&#8221; &#8220;enhanced interrogation&#8221; &#8220;PC Police&#8221;  &#8220;extrajudicial renditions&#8221;  and, the big three trillion dollar whopper, &#8220;weapons of mass destruction technology enhancement program intentions&#8221;  (or whatever the hell the conservatives finally used to justify an unjustifiable war.)</p>
<p>I have to give conservatives credit for clever but empty spinning of English.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: soundwash</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-1/#comment-1518623</link>
		<dc:creator>soundwash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 21:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518623</guid>
		<description>#14, great research JimR.

-i use a gmail account and handle the spam
almost exactly as you do. -they have a great spam filter. no more than 3 spam emails a month every hit my main box.


after thought..

i bet this pales in comparison to the amount of energy wasted and subsequent CO2 produced trying to convince people of a link between human produced CO2 (or CO2 in general) and global warming..

IMO, the report itself is spam. -had it hit my mailbox, it would have been sent to the spam folder.

-s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14, great research JimR.</p>
<p>-i use a gmail account and handle the spam<br />
almost exactly as you do. -they have a great spam filter. no more than 3 spam emails a month every hit my main box.</p>
<p>after thought..</p>
<p>i bet this pales in comparison to the amount of energy wasted and subsequent CO2 produced trying to convince people of a link between human produced CO2 (or CO2 in general) and global warming..</p>
<p>IMO, the report itself is spam. -had it hit my mailbox, it would have been sent to the spam folder.</p>
<p>-s</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JimR</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/01/email-spam-is-harming-the-environment-with-its-carbon-footprint/comment-page-1/#comment-1518609</link>
		<dc:creator>JimR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 20:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=47518#comment-1518609</guid>
		<description>#12, Mr. Fusion, my guess is that viewing porn would use a million times the energy used by spam, but offset almost equally by the energy expended on friction and heat, somewhat lowering home heating bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12, Mr. Fusion, my guess is that viewing porn would use a million times the energy used by spam, but offset almost equally by the energy expended on friction and heat, somewhat lowering home heating bills.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

