And so it went Friday morning when WLS radio host Erich “Mancow” Muller decided to subject himself to the controversial practice of waterboarding live on his show . “I want to find out if it’s torture,” Mancow told his listeners Friday morning, adding that he hoped his on-air test would help prove that waterboarding did not, in fact, constitute torture. Listeners had the chance to decide whether Mancow himself or his co-host, Chicago radio personality Pat Cassidy, would undergo the interrogation method during the broadcast. The voters ultimately decided Mancow would be the one donning the soaked towel and shackles, and at about 8:40 a.m., he entered a small storage room next to his studio that was compared to a “dungeon” by Cassidy.
“The average person can take this for 14 seconds,” Marine Sergeant Clay South answered, adding, “He’s going to wiggle, he’s going to scream, he’s going to wish he never did this.” With a Chicago Fire Department paramedic on hand, Mancow was placed on a 7-foot long table, his legs were elevated, and his feet were tied up.
Turns out the stunt wasn’t so funny. Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop. He only lasted 6 or 7 seconds…..
“It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that’s no joke,”Mancow said, likening it to a time when he nearly drowned as a child. “It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back…It was instantaneous…and I don’t want to say this: absolutely torture.”“I wanted to prove it wasn’t torture,” Mancow said. “They cut off our heads, we put water on their face…I got voted to do this but I really thought ‘I’m going to laugh this off.’ ” Last year, Vanity Fair writer Christopher Hitchens endured the same experiment — and came to a similar conclusion. The conservative writer said he found the treatment terrifying, and was haunted by it for months afterward.
Hey, at least he had the guts to try. Sean, Rush, Dick… we’re waiting.
#7: “It is also not illegal in to be gagged and whipped if that is what you are into (I’m looking at you repressed conservatives).”
Depends on the state where it takes place. For example, in MA, even consensual BDSM is considered chargeable criminal assault.
Yo guys! and gals!
Only THREE guys were water boarded by the CIA. That is documented and provable.. Of course every whacko that was ever at GTMO is going to say they were tortured. But, heck, you want to see torture go downtown and spit in a cops face at random, you will see some. Oh, btw, There are CIA documents for every interrogation the only stuff that was lost was some video. And, yes, for those 3 that were severely interrogated, it did work and good intel was received that resulted in good things for the US., Is water boarding an acceptable thing, Hell NO! should it be done, Hell NO! But, think about like if it was some dude that had information as to where your six year old son was being buried alive, would you then permit it? You know the answer. All this is now just political BS., It was done, it then Now it is not.. But we also do not want the bad guys to think that whatever they do the worst that will happen to them is a few nights at some Marriott. Come on …Let it go Get some rest!
Tell you what: every time you have an urge to write that torture doesn’t work, read this:
From the Chicago Tribune:
“Consider Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the 39-year-old former Al Qaeda operative who was the Sept. 11 mastermind and bearer of many Al Qaeda secrets. If anyone had a motive for remaining silent, it was the man known to terrorism investigators as “KSM.” But not long after his capture in Pakistan, in March 2003, KSM began to talk. He ultimately had so much to say that more than 100 footnoted references to the CIA’s interrogations of KSM are contained in the final report of the commission that investigated Sept. 11.”
http://tinyurl.com/7wcsz7
Every time you feel like writing that torture results in unreliable info, ask yourself whether it is conceivably possible to check the info out by, say, actually going to the location in question.
Hope that helps out.
47 Mr. Fusion. I would not like to be tortured or even put under extreme stress for even 14 seconds, so I would tell everything including where my buddies are hiding. Maybe you, and the enemies wishing to kill our fellow citizens, are different, I don’t know.
I would not like a bullet coursing through my body to extract info. In fact I would not like a bullet going through my guts for any reason. But our “civilized” society seems to feel this is an ok activity in spite of the extreme duress such events produce. Something like torture I would say. Again, you might feel differently about these things.
That was all you needed to know, huh? Or was there some kind of point you wish you could make?
RBG
#57 Thomas
Typical Americans, willfully misinterpreting and splitting hairs to make themselves feel better. Sounds like the Bush/Cheney mentality isn’t entirely gone yet.
“At what point does it merit being called a “mental assault”? What exactly is the line where discomfort become torture?”
How about at the point of waterboarding? Waterboarding is not designed to kill you, Thomas. Mental assault via physical assault is the entire point of the exercise.
“Let’s look at the second part: telling the victim that their family will be subjected to grievous harm. Lying to a victim is not torture.”
Telling? Lying? Who said anything about telling and lying? As a rule, I think you need to do a little bit more than telling and/or lying to convince religious zealots you’re serious.
#63, RBG,
Quoting an opinion piece from a second hand source does not qualify as as a reputable citation or even an excuse. It has come to the public’s attention that most of the information was gleaned before the torture commenced. PLUS, none of these people had the codes to that atomic bomb.
But our “civilized” society seems to feel this is an ok activity in spite of the extreme duress such events produce.
They do? I don’t know where you live, but in all the places and societies I’ve ever visited, this kind of activity is extremely frowned upon to the point of being illegal. People can and do go to jail for that and similar activities.
#64
What about sleep deprivation? What about loud noise? What about yelling at the person? Where is the break point? We agree that waterboarding is torture and that hitting someone with soft pillows is not, where is the line of demarcation? Is confining someone against their will torture?
RE: Telling/lying
This is what was said in #53:
> convince
> them they or their loved ones are about
> to suffer grievous bodily harm or death
> if they don’t tell you something,
So, “convincing” someone even if no one is physically harmed is torture? Police do it all the time to criminals without laying a hand on them. There are many ways to convince people that their loved ones will be harmed if they do not cooperate and they do not involve actual physical harm. Putting on a performance that convinces someone that bad things will happen if they do not cooperate is not torture.
Christopher Hitchens is a conservative writer?
#66 Thomas
a) Exactly what word or words in “at the point of waterboarding” didn’t you understand? Perhaps it was the combination of words that caused you problems? Maybe we need to order you an imagination from the brain catalog?
b) You think the U.S. government was “putting on a performance” about the Gitmo prisoner’s loved ones? This wasn’t a police/criminal interrogation, now was it? Sometimes you have to actually do things to convince people.
I guess that never occurred to you? I mean, they were torturing them at the time and there’s lots of soldiers in Afghanistan where those loved ones live.
Sheesh!
#68
Frankly you are skirting the issue. There are many types of torture. We agree that waterboarding is torture. However, claiming waterboarding to be torture draws an ugly grey line in the legal definition since it is non-lethal and does not cause physical damage.
You have no evidence that anything was actually done to the loved ones of people they captured on the battlefield in order to blackmail people. There are many ways to convince people that harm will come to them without actually harming them. By the way, many of the people they captured were not Afghani nor Iraqi. They were Sudanese, Iranian, Saudi etc. The whole problem with the illegal combatants is that they are people not fighting for a country nor to protect their own country.
#69 Thomas
a) What? I don’t get it.
b) What? I don’t get it.
Sorry, my fault. I must be particularly stupid today.
Every super power has had it’s boogy woogy man to scare the people with so they can supress the same people they are trying to control.
Romans had the christians, USA used to have the commies but since they went belly up they had to come up with “terrorists”.
Remember back in the 50′s how they had the freedom to be in any political party except the Communist one? They are coming for YOU, let us throw your neighbour in jail for no reason so you are protected. (BTW We said the same thing about you to him)
History repeats itself cause your pathetic education system does not teach why events happened just the dates. Good luck on that ride down the gurgler.