By SN
Saturday June 6, 2009
Slashdot – June 6, 2009:
“Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is threatening to move Microsoft employees offshore if Congress enacts President Obama’s plans to curb tax avoidance by US corporations. ‘It makes US jobs more expensive,’ complained billionaire Ballmer. ‘We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the US as opposed to keeping them inside the US.’ According to 2006 reports, Microsoft transferred $16 billion in assets to secretive Dublin subsidiaries to shave billions off its US tax bill. ‘Corporate tax is part of the overall advantage of doing business in Ireland,’ acknowledged Ballmer in 2005. ‘It would be disingenuous to say otherwise.’”
#76, Cirdan,
You tell ‘em buddy. Show ‘em who’s the boss. Let everyone know what a dick you are.
#81 – Cirdan sounds like a fat, towel head.
Pretty freakin scary the number of commenters who appear to be so set in their beliefs of how ‘corrupt corporate America is’, that the only way they will believe themselves wrong is when the whole country collapses.
It’s a shame that HISTORY isn’t taught a bit more in schools….so we don’t have to go thru the destruction of repeating it over and over again.
So move to fuckin Ireland, monkey boy!
Maybe it’s time for someone in Congress to introduce legislation calling for greater use of open source software by the federal government. Perhaps that would help Ballmer remember how much he loves the good ol’ U.S.A., in exchange for certain considerations…
According to the US government’s GAO ( General Accounting Office) 61% of American corporations pay no Federal taxes. This means that mostly large corporations are the ones taking advantage of various loopholes that smaller businesses aren’t in a position to take advantage of. Instead of small business owners drinking the kool-aid, they should be screaming for us to waterboard some large corporate accountants to find out where the money is and who the real enemies of America are. You idiots are being fucked coming and going and you want more. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Completely insane.
Ballmer sez: “Hey America! We want your expensive infrastructure and the quality of life it makes possible — but we’re not going to do our share to pay for it.”
The normal corporate line. Skim the cream, never contribute — and call anyone who objects a “socialist”.
Conservatives on this board are brilliant. “What has U.S. infrastructure, education system, government and corporate laws ever done for Microsoft??”
Great point. But it makes you wonder…
Why, then, doesn’t Microsoft uproot and move to Ireland entirely?
Why didn’t move *all* of their operations out of the country YEARS ago?
Idiots.
#87:
“Hey America! We want your expensive infrastructure and the quality of life it makes possible — but we’re not going to do our share to pay for it.”
We’re charged capital gains taxes when we cash in Microsoft stock. Everyone Microsoft employs pays income tax. Everyone who purchases a Microsoft product pays sales tax.
You act like corps generate absolutely no income for the gov’t. They do directly and indirectly.
“Why, then, doesn’t Microsoft uproot and move to Ireland entirely?”
Because, duh, there was no incentive to. That can change, and when it does, poof. They’re gone.
#70 You’re asking way too much. Lefty commies don’t think, they just obey.
#77 for the win!
#79 That might change quite soon too, when your beloved leader starts saying that there’s no such thing as intellectual property and that anything done by anyone belongs to everyone.
#81 You’ve done so many time. Perhaps you should show him how to be a dick.
#88 Because thing sworked until now? Dumb lib!
#89 But according to the lefty loons, illegal aliens are not bad to the economy and do pay taxes. Maybe they should replace MS with a hoard of illegals. Hey, there’s an idea!
This is why I support the Fair Tax!
#15/31 In this mad race to the bottom, could some wing nut tell us what taxes the Democrats have raised.
And yes, what taxes are being increased for the majority of US citizens? Can’t find them?
Tobacco and I didn’t have to search google. Nice way to help out the poor on that one.
#50, Perhaps we should start actually working within our means a bit and try to produce the best things and services we can without going into debt doing it?
Small businesses don’t get government handouts when they are drowning in debt. They go out of business. Living trillions beyond one’s means are solely the purview of big governments and big business.
Amen. I’ve been in business nearly 10 years and grown from just me to 12 people and I’ve done it without credit (other than a $2500 credit limit credit card for office supplies). I’ve grown the business soley on cash-flow.
#51, If Microsoft disappeared tomorrow, the effect on the economy would be devastating. Forgetting the people employed directly by Microsoft, there are hundreds of thousands of people that use their technology to produce solutions for other companies both small and large.
It would destroy us, that’s for sure. Every single one of my customers use MS. They only use MS because they are assured that MS isn’t going out of business tomorrow. We are a MS partner and get all the Microsoft software for about $500/yr. If we didn’t have MS, we’d all be out of work.
But, I guess if we raised taxes on MS, they would raise their rates to us, which means we would have to raise our rates to customers, which means they would have to raise their rates to the consumer. In the end, companies are going to get their profit.
New Quote: “Yeah, let’s raise taxes on the corporations. I’m not paying enough for my goods!”
#52, Yep. We lost quite a bit of revenue last year when a couple of larger companies moved their operations overseas.
#54, Granted, that scenario is not about to happen. However, what definitely could happen is that MS changes its status to be a foreign corporation and moves most of its production overseas and leaves a US subsidiary. No one would notice any difference in their software. The only difference would be the massive loss in tax revenue to the US, the State of WA, King County and the city of Redmond.
Actually, the federal government would be in a serious pickle. They cannot purchase the goods of a foreign company (all software contracts would permantely expire, upgrades impossible, etc.). They would be required, by law, to move to something produced domestically. I don’t think Linux fits that category. Talk about a nightmare trying to switch everything over to Unix.
#74 If you don’t like the decisions made by the companies you own a part of, invest elsewhere and dont buy their products.
Bingo!
What is so secretive about companies using Ireland for lower taxes? A visit there would tell you Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, Dell, Intel, IBM, etc. all take advantage of the lower taxes.
The lower tax rate applies to monies earned overseas NOT in the US. Corporations are setting up complex business structures to avoid bringing in profits into the US. Some call it tax avoidance but the Corporations will call it tax minimization. Ireland, until recently, has prospered greatly under this tax structure and it is no secret how they made it happen.
I can’t blame Microsoft, more profits keep Wall Street happy. Full US taxes are paid with the profits from what I purchase from Microsoft here in the US. Do I really care how they want to treat profits Norway? Not really.
#92 LibertyLover wrote “Actually, the federal government would be in a serious pickle. They cannot purchase the goods of a foreign company (all software contracts would permantely expire, upgrades impossible, etc.). They would be required, by law, to move to something produced domestically. I don’t think Linux fits that category.”
I’d like to challenge your statement because I believe it to be false. Our own Defense Logics Agency (DLA) uses software made by SAP, a company based in Germany. SAP is also the primary source of technology behind GFEBS, the Army’s new web-enabled financial, asset and accounting management system.
Your concerns about Linux seem to be unfounded as well. According to the Novell website, “US government agencies can purchase and deploy SUSE Linux Enterprise with confidence, knowing that it fully complies to the latest network infrastructure policies implemented by the US federal government.”
You seem to love accuracy less than you love liberty
re: Canada calling- MS already has a large operation in Vancouver. I think they set it up because it is becoming more difficult to keep foreign nationals in the US, but it’s close to Redmond.
According to the article, about 40% of their employees aren’t based in the US already. I suspect that Ballmer’s just blowing more hot air. He’s probably pissed that they’re going to have to dig around for the next loophole. And given the relationship between MS and the EU, he’s going to move there? Really?
This quote was priceless: “It’s just a question of how much will the Dow come down,” Ballmer said. “It’s not about companies anyway; we’re talking about shareholders.”
How much cash is MS sitting on, rather than distributing it to the shareholders? That’s been a sore spot for years. And now he’s concerned for the shareholders?
I don’t like Steve Ballmer or Microsoft.
Yet unfortunately there could be a lot of truth in what he says in the way it could apply to the behaviors of other US companies as a response to tax hikes.
Complicated world.
# 75 JimR said, “please tell me that ”
As I thought. Hot air, your accusation was baseless and you can’t answer to it. Fail.
U.S.: The new Latin America.
Latin America: The new Africa.
What a load of rubbish.
Ms isn’t going anywhere. If there were jobs that Microsoft could have taken offshore for a profit advantage they would have already done that. Having them actually pay their taxes might slightly shift the balance – but not hugely. Those highly educated, experienced, and well paid engineers. They ain’t moving. Same with the vast majority of well paid jobs. I don’t see Balmer leaving the ‘land of the free’.
I really don’t understand, why anybody would argue they shouldn’t pay their taxes. If being forced to pay their taxes make them to make some adjustments, then so be it. That’s the free market isn’t it?
So it’s a empty stupid threat.
And the same applies to all the multinational companies that come out with this sh*t. If you want to do business here great. But you have to pay your taxes, just like everyone else does. Right?
#94, It’s possible there is a “sole-source” clause grandfathered in.
I just recently had to go through the entire legal hurdle of verifying some software I was reselling to the federal government was made in the US and that I was a US-based company.