We the People Stimulus Package

Published on June 18th, 2009

Posted by hhopper in Column fodder, Politics

Found by Jim McDonald.

84 users responded in " We the People Stimulus Package "

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# 1 Fat_Anarchy said, on June 18th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

[Comment deleted - Violation of Posting Guidelines. - ed.]

# 2 Sea Lawyer said, on June 18th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

lol, whoever he is pretending to be dresses as probably wouldn’t have been jumping around trumpeting e-verify.

# 3 Schleprock said, on June 18th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

It looks like John McCain is a little angry. I like how these people have found religion after the last 8 years. I wonder how Ronald Reagan would have felt if you told him that we were building a wall(not tearing one down)? They don’t like a black man in charge even if he is a CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR! Sounds a little like John Wilkes Booth… Oh… but he was an actor

# 4 Sea Lawyer said, on June 18th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

And the reason why there are no term limits is precisely because in a system of self-government, the people should be free to choose whomever they want to be their representatives, for as long as they so desire. An interesting note is this very topic was debated when the method for choose the President was still bouncing between being an appointee of the Congress, or chosen by the states.

# 5 steve said, on June 18th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

thomas paine for president,and never vote for a incumbent they win 90% of the time and do everything to enhance their prosperity and subvert american VALUES.

# 6 Schleprock said, on June 18th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

Yes, that’s true. Al Gore would have been the V.P..

# 7 Jägermeister said, on June 18th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

Where was this cocksucker during the Bush regime?

# 8 Schleprock said, on June 18th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

I think that he is dressed that way because he is the judge that Dick Cheney wanted instead of Sotomayor.Either that or he just likes wearing dresses with frumpy collars. No wonder he’s so angry.

# 9 Somebody_Else said, on June 18th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

The basic points of the video are perfectly sound: We’re living beyond our means and need to get the government to stop borrowing so much money.

Unfortunately, fiscal conservatism has been so closely tied to (and undermined by) the social/religious conservative nutjobs that I don’t think it has a chance at regaining popularity until the baby boomer generation dies off.

# 10 chuck said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

Alfred1 do you have a key on your keyboard labeled “STATIST” – because you see to use every 3 or 4 words like it’s a comma or form of punctuation.

Can you help me out – what exactly STATIST do you mean STATIST when you put the word STATIst in every STATIST sentence?

# 11 someguy said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:05 pm

We’d do well to take this advice to heart.

# 12 Hugh Ripper said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

Yes, Afred1. Please provide STATISTics on STATUS of the STATE of your STATIST STATEments.

See, I can indulge in sophistry too!

# 13 Patrick said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

# 10 I’ve noticed the same thing. I can only assume he probably heard it from a conservative talk show and now insists on parroting it. Of course maybe he’s attempting to make it the new fascism, and use it so often that it losses all meaning.

# 14 Rakiah said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Oh yah, I am real up for some tea-bagging.

Thomas baby, you need to get in line…

# 15 bobsyeruncle said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

[Comment deleted - Violation of Posting Guidelines.

You have been warned before and are now banned from this site. - ed.]

# 16 dagnabit said, on June 18th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

TEA – Taxed Enough Already events need to have Democrats attending as well. If not then the meetings will be shown as examples of fringe meetings and will not be taken seriously.

# 17 ridin the short bus said, on June 18th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

He makes allot of sense… The MTV generation and Hollywood have allot to be held accountable for. Ans I have also said that if the people who made the laws were effectred by the laws they make they would meke different laws… thier is too much special interest in washington and no one is paying attention to what the normal struggeling people of america are having to put up with every day. I truely beieve that the only people left supporting the respublicans are people who are not objective… they are retirees of the military or sme other govt agency that have never had to worry abut loosing their jobs and always have been able to suck on the govt tit.. America has gone to hell and dont think she’ll be back… she cant or wont take care of her people and evenn provide basic mediacal care… its al a huge shame…and it can all go back to the days of Nixon and before.. big business and self importance by our elected leaders. Show me a politician and I’ll show you a crook. and lstsly we Need to let 1 man 1 vote be the only way forward.. the Electoral Colege needs to be removed and an ammendment to the constitution crated to desolve this antiquaited way of voting. Please Help save America… I wish everyone had the chance to lve outside the country for 1 year…(not in the military) and see and feel how others countrys live and look at America from the outside… then they would begin to understand..

# 18 deowll said, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

The problem is the greatest generation, forged in the pain of the great depression and tempered in the blood shed of WW II, raised their kids and grand kids to be soft, self indulgent wastrels who think they and the entire world is entitled to a free lunch and now we the people are to immature to understand that isn’t what we are going to get if we turn everything over to a bunch of con artists who lack as much sound judgment as can be found in the average opossum.

Freedom, liberty, and prosperity are for those who hustle wisely. I don’t think this nation any longer fits that description.

# 19 GetSmart said, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

Good propaganda usually has better production values. Yawn. Get the sheep riled up enough to do something that will be harmful to them in the long run. “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” “Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream….”

# 20 Mattg said, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

One of this guys problems is that he tries to cram too many of his views into the one message. While some of them have obvious merit, some of them are more contensious and a little jingoistic. Wrap that all up in package of slightly crazy and he probably puts off some of the people that would agree with a least a couple of his points.

# 21 faxon said, on June 18th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

This guy makes too much sense. That’s why none of what he advocates will ever see the light of day. This country is going to hell in a handbasket.
My advice, buy ammunition, stockpile supplies, and get your ass ready for riots. If you don’t own firearms, then kiss your sorry liberal ass goodbye.

# 22 Jim said, on June 18th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Thanks for wasting my time with a few minutes of bullshit. I especially love the argument of balancing the budget and also paying for social security. Which requires TAXES, which these sort of people hate since they are anti-federalists.

Just go sit in your little cells with your little firearms and boxes of crappy survivalist snacks and let the rest of us who care about our country run it.

# 23 amodedoma said, on June 19th, 2009 at 3:00 am

The best way to avoid getting cushed under the collapse of the United States is by emmigrating to some place civilized.

# 24 RTaylor said, on June 19th, 2009 at 3:09 am

Grant any group of people authority and you’ll witness corruption and repression. The problem is with the animal. There is a bit of anarchist in me.

# 25 amodedoma said, on June 19th, 2009 at 3:16 am

For those of you who apparently don’t know who Thomas Payne was ->
http://ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/

# 26 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 3:58 am

Looks Like #23 has the real answer…
Move to Europe… Atleast you’ll have Health Insurance… that wont refuse to pay when you need it most… because no one pays!!!
6 Weeks of vacation per year
and the list grows…
and you have a quality of life… not just be a number and a cog for the Industrialists…
France is the Number 1 Country in the world for Health Care… The even make house calls in the middle of the night… America ranks… WAY…down the list…its embarrassing really..
So what do you get for your taxes now.. Oh the latest Military Hardware and Missles and Bombs and surveilence equipment (used against you) …you get to pay for Cheneys retirement…
Move to Europe…
The you can watch the Americans self desteruct from across the Atlantic and Laugh at Fox
News…
Thank you #23 for our insite
Cheers Boys…(and Girls)

# 27 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 4:16 am

Valid points. Nothing will happen as the gov has perfected the art of bribing citizens with their own money.

# 28 RTaylor said, on June 19th, 2009 at 4:28 am

A country like Norway has a good social welfare net. North Sea oil subsidizes a lot of it, but the country was populated, mostly by Norwegians. They didn’t have the cultural diversity the US has, and it is a smaller nation with limited spending on Defense. You can’t graft European models to the US very easily. The Europeans has been paying up to 50% of income in taxes for a generation now. By the way not all are happy with their systems either. Like most European Nations they import cheap labor.
It would help if we resigned from being a super power and stop minding the worlds business.

# 29 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 4:38 am

I knew the 50% tax issue would be brought up by someone… In Norway this is true… But in most of Europe it is a little less. But if you were to add up the Income tax and all the other taxes you pay now…its not so much less.. Anyway if we did spend most of the real tax dollars on America… the Roads would be perfect, the schools would be great the elderly would not worry and the list is long..but we prefer (congress does) to give away billions to foriegn powers to throw aroound their influence and waste billions on defense… some examples are appauling… like spending 3000$ per month renting villas for junior officers, when the villa has 4 bedrooms etc… imagine the waste.. I see this sort of thinf in real life… every day.. or the US Govt spending your Tax Dollars to Fix houses on a compound that are not owned ny the Govt, they stay for a few monthes and the owners rep the benefits…Etc Etc Etc… Lets give up the supwer pwer status ansd concentrate on the People in our country not other countries, if we lived our lives like this then 9/11 would of never hapened… so who is really to balame?…:-)

# 30 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 4:53 am

# 29 ridin the short bus said, “I knew the 50% tax issue would be brought up by someone… In Norway this is true… But in most of Europe it is a little less. But if you were to add up the Income tax and all the other taxes you pay now…its not so much less..”

VAT

# 31 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 4:57 am

#1 That wasn’t me, the dickless troll impersonating me is getting old…the blog shouldn’t allow that… he should be banned for doing it.

Hopefully the moderators will do just that…

[Fixed. Impersonating another commenter is not allowed and will get you banned from the site. - ed.]

# 32 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:01 am

Moderators…a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

[If he does it again, he's gone. - ed.]

# 33 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:05 am

In most cases VAT is an optional purchase. Besides dont worry the idea is being tossed around congress..so it will be the next TAX u get to Pay!! And in Most Western European Countries the inimum wage is more than the US Minimum wage… an example UK = 7.25Pounds per Hour…and a few monthes ago with the exchange rate at 2 to 1 that almost 15$ an hour… so everything is relative.
n this day and Age we need to get rid of the Electoral College and Limit the Congress terms..because absolute power corrupts absolutely…its true… Frpm Olympia Snowe to Byrd..they all stayed too long… and after living in washington for so many years they forget what its like to live in their constituancy…

# 34 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:09 am

# 16 dagnabit said, “TEA – Taxed Enough Already events need to have Democrats attending as well.”

They did, at least in CA.

# 35 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:10 am

Moderators Posts #1 and #15 are not mine,..a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

[You don't need to demand that he be banned... that is our standard operating procedure. An imposter is warned and if he continues to do it, he is automatically banned. In your case, there have been three people that have impersonated you. All of them have been warned. One has been banned. - ed.]

# 36 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:11 am

#13 – Get your own screen name.

# 37 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:13 am

To the Real Alfred1, choose another user name… forget the individual who is using Alfred1..its all relative and no one really knows who you are..we are freely expressing our individual views here so it does not matter what user name we have… if we have to veryfy each posting etc..it will be difficult for some to post due to por internet connects..etc… (I am one of them)… over seas posting… relax and shrug it off.. this is one of the freest ways to express ones views and I hope it does not get restrictive.. thanks..

# 38 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:19 am

How do I alert the Moderators…a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

I couldn’t find a link to them…is there one?

[We read the comments. We heard you. - ed.]

# 39 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:20 am

# 33 ridin the short bus said, “In most cases VAT is an optional purchase.”

What, like clothing and such? Anyway, factor it in and it is way above 50%. Thus your argument falls apart.

# 40 Bastian said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:22 am

Pure garbage. I suspect people like this are the type to chase me off their lawn. Never happy, never satisfied. Take a xanex and get over it already.

# 41 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:23 am

#37 BS…its a simple matter to restrict a handle to an email address

Posts #1 and #15 are not mine, and I demand the impersonator be banned…

He has offended me personally by impersonating me.

I demand justice…compensation for the injury he caused me.

If banning too strong…how about public ridicule…inform us all who the troll is…

# 42 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:26 am

I bet is someone posted as John C Dvorak it would be stopped…

Posts #1 and #15 are not mine…and I demand the impersonation stop immediately, and we be informed who the troll is..

# 43 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:29 am

Its not an arguement… my point is that Europens generaly get more from the Government than folks in the US. It looks like you Pay VAT, this normaly replaces customs duties on foriegn goods…
We pay some sort of Tax… I live in a foriegn country and pay a small tax on my earnings and because I am foriegner in tis land I have no say in the Government Actions or elections..so in this case it is Taxation w/o Representation… but if I want to continue to live here.. I put up with it… what to do?..
I do Beleive that VAT is coming to America as well…

# 44 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:32 am

# 43 ridin the short bus said, “Its not an arguement… my point is that Europens generaly get more from the Government than folks in the US.”

Well, in order to determine that you need to 1st establish the % of taxation, which you haven’t. Thus, your statement has no basis in truth.

# 45 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:36 am

If impersonation is allowed…legitimate discussion will cease…

Posts #1 and #15 are not mine…a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

[OK already! It's been taken care of! - ed.]

# 46 jescott418 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:38 am

Where was this guy during the Election? Sounds better then Robin Hood Obama who robs Peter to Pay Paul. I would be happy if all government was required to balance every budget. That would solve a lot of these problems. Now Obama is going to build us up to support this Health plan then after we are onboard tell us how much its going to costs us. I think it won’t be long we will be working for the government.
I’ll just mail my check to Uncle Sam.

# 47 ridin the short bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:39 am

Housing when needed, Medical care when required, pension plans (state Sponcered), homes for the elderly, reimbursement for the trip to the doctors office, free pharmacutical products, effecient public transportation, just a few thngs off the top of my head..and ya all own bit of Airbus to boot!!!(Who owns EADS) Money for the mothers for every child in the houshold,….even a nanny if needed..
You wont find any of these things on the US Citizens list of freebies from Uncle Sam… ut you can Lease a Few C-17s from us..thanks..
Alfred1… sorry mate but Grumpy or Ebineizer could be a new handle for ya?.. Sorry for yur plight… I am sure the moderators will notice and take ana ction..

# 48 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:42 am

My new name will be John C Dvoark if impersonation is allowed.

If impersonation is allowed…legitimate discussion will cease…

Posts #1 and #15 are not mine…a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

# 49 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:45 am

Of course, if I begin posting under his name…I’ll spell it right…John C Dvorak…

Otr

# 50 riding the longer bus said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:48 am

Alfred1, keep it up and You’ll be Banned… dont Bite the hand that feeds you…. Remember who’s Blog it is mate!!…

# 51 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:48 am

# 47 ridin the short bus said, “You wont find any of these things on the US Citizens list of freebies ”

You obviously know next to nothing about this country. At least you are entertaining.

# 52 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:52 am

#50 If impersonation is allowed against me…its allowed against all..

I’ll begin posting as hhopper, Eideard…etc…confusing all their followers…

But especially it will be fun putting words in John C Dvorak’s mouth…I’m sure he will appreciate that.

# 53 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 5:56 am

Impersonating Adam Curry might be self defeating…

If impersonation is allowed…legitimate discussion will cease…

Posts #1 and #15 are not mine…a blogger is impersonating me…posting under my name offensive material…I demand he be banned…immediately.

[Stop it! You've said enough. We get it. - ed.]

# 54 The Monster's Lawyer said, on June 19th, 2009 at 6:26 am

blah, blah, blah, another right-wing nutjob with more anger than reason.

# 55 Fat_Anarchy said, on June 19th, 2009 at 6:43 am

You’re gonna get yourself banned if you keep repeating the same thing alfred. You’ll be accused of flooding the boards.

Although if someone is using your name I guess thats a legitimate cause for concern. I think this place could do with the OPTION to register your name to stop it happening, if it is what is happening to you. That way people who don’t ant to register don’t have to, but risk having someone use their name, and people who dont want it happening, can register a username.

[And you're going to get yourself banned if you impersonate anyone again. - ed.]

# 56 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 7:09 am

I am being impersonated…blamed for views I don’t hold…I have lost all desire to comment on issues…I am being called things I am not…

If impersonation is ok, then I will begin posting as John C Dvorak and Eideard…I’m sure they will love being blamed for the words I will put in their mouth.

# 57 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 7:13 am

I have emailed Senator Boxer the following…lets see if I get more than a canned response:

Dear Senator

Our country is bankrupt…hyperinflation is what we will reap…

The alleged stimulus did nothing…we need business solutions now…not massive Government health care.

We are bankrupt…stop spending our money…

Repeal H.R.1, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009…

Please stop bankrupting the country.

# 58 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 7:15 am

#55 I’ve had it happen a couple of times. Fortunately, those who pay dvorak.org $200+/year can see the IP addresses of posters on the blog…

# 59 fauge said, on June 19th, 2009 at 8:09 am

#40 I agree with a lot of what he said and if I did find you on my lawn I’d shoot your sorry ass because you would have no business being there.

# 60 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 9:03 am

#55 A selling point? I’ve lost all desire to debate issues…what’s the point…a deceiver will begin posting under my name, confusing people about my positions…

If it continues these are probably my last comments here.

# 61 Alfred1 said, on June 19th, 2009 at 9:19 am

#59 Well said…pithy…

# 62 Jim said, on June 19th, 2009 at 9:30 am

Protectionism solves nothing, but the masses would never understand that. The ideas of protecting the borders, keeping businesses in the US, and promoting a “buy USA” only campaign are blind folly that will lead to ruin.

# 63 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 9:58 am

# 62 Jim said, “The ideas of protecting the borders, keeping businesses in the US, …”

So, actively driving businesses out of the country is good? Can you elaborate?

# 64 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

Reason Foundation – Taxpayer’s Guide to the Stimulus
http://reason.org/studies/show/1007618.html

# 65 Patrick said, on June 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

# 55 Fat_Anarchy said, “You’re gonna get yourself banned if you keep …”

Pretty low. You cause a problem, lie and then try to foist it off on the guys running the site.

# 66 LibertyLover said, on June 19th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

#64, One reason for anti-protectionism is that no single country can produce everything it needs/wants. They should specialize in what they are good at and leave other countries to specialize in what they are good at.

The drawback is that the country in question should make sure it’s an all or nothing proposition.

Sugar farming in Louisiana is one good example. Due to the import tariffs on sugar, to keep the prices artificially high, sugar costs US citizens twice as much as it does everywhere else in the world. The tariffs were supposed to make sugar cheaper to buy if produced locally. What it did was allow the sugar farmers to raise their prices to match what was being imported.

Pretty much the same thing with steel, forest products, and quite a few other things.

Of course, with the steady inflation the last 100 years, it’s hard to argue with the cheap imports from China. American workers require such a high salary to live, producing anything in this country has become too expensive. It’s a feedback cycle that is finally coming home to roost.

On the video — I appreciate some of the sentiment but there were definitely some scary parts in it:

E-Verify (yeah, it’s voluntary like Gattaca was voluntary).

And what was that bit about “letting the people elect the President again?” The President has never been elected by the people. It’s always been the electoral college.

And that Universal Service thingy is nothing more that state-sponsored slavery.

# 67 matt said, on June 19th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Wow. This guy makes a lot of good points, which is why he’ll be mocked ruthlessly by the goofballs here. …and me for for pointing it out.

# 68 Uncle Patso said, on June 19th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

Oh, that spam…

I’ve seen several people post as John C. Dvorak over the years, but they usually spell it differently.

I quit listening to Old Angry Grandpa about a minute in when he claimed $300 Billion for “illegal alien welfare.”

I have better things to do with my time and attention than listen to some angry harangue when I could be listening to the latest Tech 5. (Cranky is generally better than angry.)

# 69 pedro said, on June 19th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

Wow! I didn’t pay attention to this post before because the video still showed a guy in retro/colonist outfit with the “get your won 401k” quote and I thought it was a spoof.

Amazing! You could have told the guy speak in Spanish and talk about Venezuela and it would have been a perfect fit. Same issues. Realities only differ in graveness level.

Sounds like me but even clearer. I’ve told you guys many a time that the US has been lost and that time to do something is going past.

There’s no doubt in my mind that governments worldwide have stopped looking after their own citizens & countries affairs and are looking not even to their own, but to those of external entities. Note I said entities rather than entity.

#3 A little shallow minded, aren’t you? I’d say you’re the racist, not the guy in the video.

#7 Not doing anything like the people he’s trying to bring awareness to. Different people have different times to reach the tipping point. Precisely the reason why his calling will fail.

#11 I’d say you’re correct.

#18 Very well said. A lot of examples of your statement in comments before (and I’m sure after) your own.

#23 Care to say exactly were that is? Spain is no better. If you want to discuss this in person, I’m heading Bilbao tomorrow.

#26 Yeah, you have that. But also have the bad side of it.

Missery and unemployment are sharply increasing; more illegal immigration from everywhere in the world (mainly Africa, the Middle East & Latin America) unwilling to embrace the culture that recieved them with a bunch of sissies in the govermnet willing to accomodate; corruption everywhere; vote coersion by fear or direct buyout; separatist factions in mayor contries in the EU (something that the US took care off with the civil war. That backwards Europe is in that regard); some of them have the same political demons of 40 & 50 years ago returning and represented by their youth; great salary disparity among UE member countries yet the costs of living are quite alike (with the exception maybe of the newly inducted eastern european countries like Slovakia, but their other problems greatly offsets this small advantage).

As I said, change the guy in the video’s idiom & country he’s referring to and is a fit.

#28 You forgot the political issue Norway is facing with the Muslims trying to impose their way of life onto everyone (sharia, etc) & get a political party to further such an endeavor.

Most of the EU countries wont be able to maintain the European way of life that some are referring here since the ones not believing in it, comprised of non-embracing immigrants and loonie missguided locals, will be the mayority soon.

#47 said: “Housing when needed…”

You say this as if there were no homeless in Europe.

#51 I’d say you’re about right.

#54 Blah blah blah blah. Another Lib with less wit than common sense.

#64 You’re trying to reason with someone like #54. If you’re doing it for enterteinment, keep on going. Otherwise, you’ll lose your time.

#65 Which call for a blatant attempt at manipulation. The intention is clear, but who and why????

#67 Don’t worry. You’re in good company.

# 70 ridin the short bus said, on June 20th, 2009 at 12:23 am

Patrick, I guess we know 2 different Americas.. I am an American..as much you probably are, I spent 6 years serving in the Armed Forces as well, its all perspective and lifes circumstances that let use realize exactly where we live and whats available to us when we need it. I work with allot of people from the UK, France, Holland, Germany and other places in Europe, so I get my information from the individuals from these countries, over many years. Please Enlighten me if you will, tell me where i am incorrect, I am always willng to listen and learn. Currently I still feel the average western European can count on more from his/her government, than most us citizens may. Arguably, yes they pay higher taxes in these countries, but once again, I am just stating the primanry points in the video I do agree with, an if the US had fiscal responsibility, then we too could have a higher standard of living and education in America, as compared to what is happening today, the standard is erroding fast. Amazing how quicky things change, remember 8 years ago when Clinton left the white house?.. First time in a long time,..the US had a surpluse budget and it was in the black and balanced…but it did not last for long… thanks George!!! Obama is and the Dems are handling a mess left to them by G.W…lets not forget, it was the self serving greed of the mighty that ultimately let us to the predicament we have today. Allot of the responsibility starts at home, literally.. how much debt does the average american carry, (not including a mortgage)…. we have allot to fix in this country!!!

# 71 LibertyLover said, on June 20th, 2009 at 3:32 am

Currently I still feel the average western European can count on more from his/her government, than most us citizens may.

I’m not Patrick, but I would like to state my opinion on this statement.

There are many of us who don’t WANT anything from the government except what is spelled out in the Constitution. And I, too, spent 6 years in the military and received a wound while serving.

So how is it that two people with similar (seemingly) backgrounds have such radically different views on what to expect out of our government? Does my opinion count more because I was wounded? Of course not because the Constitution doesn’t leave interpretation based on feelings and wants. You may WANT more out of the government but the government is not allowed to supply it. EU countries have different constitutions.

I am not going to suggest you move there. I find that to be a coward’s answer when all other arguments fail. I will ask this one question, though:

You say you find the EU governments better. If that is the case, why haven’t you moved there? This is an honest question and the first of a few. I have a few more to ask based on your answers.

Allot of the responsibility starts at home, literally.. how much debt does the average american carry, (not including a mortgage)

And this we certainly agree on.

# 72 Patrick said, on June 20th, 2009 at 5:17 am

# 70 ridin the short bus said, “Please Enlighten me if you will, tell me where i am incorrect, I am always willng to listen and learn.”

I’ve lived in EU & US. H.C. is available here to those without $ faster than in the EU. I’ll start there. Section 8 housing… In short, you haven’t actually researched anything. Also, listen to Pedro above.

Hey, Pedro, say hi to the girls down at Plentzia beach for me.

# 73 ridin the short bus said, on June 20th, 2009 at 11:28 am

Hi Patrick, and LL.. I am at work and i dont have the time to search for Section 8 Housing… Is this a state sponcered scheme or a federal Scheme?… My initialpoint hasbeen lost.. I beleive that the Govermnet should supply some sort of Guaranteed Medical Coverage, the US is the ONLY Industrialized Western Country to not provide this service to its Citizens… I do not want to get into a pssing contest about housing… Everyone of us will get old or sick or one day and this should not be the reason to be financially devestated. Did you watch the Movie “Sicko” from Micheal Moore?… And I may just move to the EU… I hope I dont get Tazed on the way to the Airport…by an over zealous cop… America aint want she used to be!!!

# 74 ridin the short bus said, on June 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am

OK Section 8 is HUD… a very complex, but… Housing is available… OK.. maybe you have me on this one….. But again, I beleive that the original topic is lost now..
I am generally conservative, But I have seen what it means to not have much money and become sick. The bills are devestating… Most Insurance companies in the woorld out siode the US will say./.. “World Wide Coverage, Except North America” … I know..thats what my current policy says…
But we should GET the folks in Congress to listen to the pweople once again, Limit the terms…and be rid of the Electoral College… (We would not of had Bush, if the 1 man 1 vote were in force. The Electoral College is part of the Constituion, so it will an amendment to change it..and that would take allot of effort.
By the Way… I have no Credit Card debt…

# 75 Patrick said, on June 20th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

# 73 ridin the short bus said, “I beleive that the Govermnet should supply some sort of Guaranteed Medical Coverage, the US is the ONLY Industrialized Western Country to not provide this service to its Citizens…”

Bzzt. Wrong again. Walk into a State/County owned hospital in ANY state of the union and you’ll get medical treatment if you don’t have money. Please, do a tiny bit of research.

# 76 ridin the short bus said, on June 20th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

We can do this all day long… In a major city you may be correct and I beleive this would apply to Emergency treatment only… No long term care… (most expensive type of care) cancer patients, Heart Attacks etc… Even an Ambulance ride can set you back a few thousand… its all rediculious…

If you live in any rural part of America, this may not be the case, and if its all possible and wonderful, then why is it a problem that is being discussed for correction?… Why then are people hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt after heart attact? Or suddenly the Insurance company finds a way to opt out of coverage… These are the wrongs that need to be corrected… You seem to have enough time on your hands to do research…..what about the State of Maine?… (I dont live there…)..
Do you have insurance that you can count on?.. Or do you have some sdort of Government Retiree Coverage that will never be taken away?… Each person experiences his or her own America…Its usually Pretty simple… The more Money you Have the better off you will always be…. I dont like to see anyone suck on the Government TIT, but I do believe that the Government has a responsibility to provide certain services for the Tax we pay. And I beleive that guaranteed Health care should be one of them… Not Hit and Miss, based upon your income or state or county you live in… watch “SICKO” Micheal Moore..

# 77 pedro said, on June 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

#73 You seriously pay attention to michael moore? That explains a lot. Move to cuba. I hear they’re the shiz in healthcare.

# 78 ridin on the short bus said, on June 21st, 2009 at 2:55 am

I did not see anything in his Movie (Sicko) that was not true… did you?.. maybe in my next life I will have the same fortune as you appear to have made for yourselves..(Patrick and Pedro)… This is no longer a debate… I’ll se you guys at the next Dick Cheney Posting… I also watched Arron Russo’s Film as well.. maybe you should, if you have not… these are more entertaining than I… have a good day Gentlemen…

# 79 pedro said, on June 21st, 2009 at 6:15 am

#78 Sorry if you got upset, but anyone that believes cuba is a good example of anything is either naive or a lefty loon.

Examples abound on how pathetic the cuban health system is, not to mention how the cuban government leaders get richer by sending health slaves with subpar preparation abroad and having a full fledged health tourims for the rich inland. Just watch whenever a venezuelan “revolutionary” (people that “exhude” revolution for others but them and are puppy-lead by cubans) have any health issue; they all travel to the US or any other “imperial” country.

# 80 ridin the short bus said, on June 21st, 2009 at 9:27 am

I never said anything about Cuba… Look at the portion of the Movie referring to England and Canada… I am not a pro communist or Castro supporter..!!! Forget the Cuba Crap!!!!
By 1963, Castro moved Cuba towards a full-fledged Communist system modeled on the USSR. Looks like we are way off topic now.. This is my last posting on this subject… take care my friend.

# 81 pedro said, on June 21st, 2009 at 11:12 am

#80 Although Canada has a system that works, it’s filled with lenghty waitlist (typical 3 months, coud get upwards of 6) for studies and interventions because they don’t want anything private on healthcare. They seem to have seen the light and are thinking about allowing some privates in wether mixed provincial/private endeavors & full private places.

So it’s better than the one in the US in some respects but worse in others (e.g. better in health coverage but worse on health attention performance). I’ve always thought a mix of the two could be the ticket.

UK system, I know little about it.

# 82 Patrick said, on June 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 pm

# 76 ridin the short bus said, “In a major city you may be correct and I beleive this would apply to Emergency treatment only… No long term care… (most expensive type of care) cancer patients, Heart Attacks etc… Even an Ambulance ride can set you back a few thousand… its all rediculious…”

Wrong.

# 83 jeremyromero said, on June 26th, 2009 at 2:15 am

1.please america obama is crap really,he is,bush,regan,crap we been lied too,regan cause he hollywood,oh yeah clinton too,is it funny but joe crocker is full of —-!!!!!!!
2.where is our stimulas money really,are the fixing road and junk,naw our people are getting tired of b.s like this!!!!
3.bills,gas,food,our cable,life in general is getting crappy,but face it,well i say religion,etc,some funny some serios,kind of like one boss stroking another or something like that!!!
5.working sucks,but hey got to pay bills,well finding out,many of us are tired of maddoff,blogavish,whole lot of others
6.who tells me who to admire or anything of sort
7,than to billy jeff or billy bob-bill(william clinton)oh by the way hilary wants to run for supreme court,not her,not her!!!!
8.are ya depressed,i know soumd like coutry needs remedy relief!!!!!!!!
9.well i got stuff on my mind as you do too!!!!!!
10 as much time it to tell fcc off and others,plus folks were screwed cause the don’t don’t care,i do,but hey ya can’t help everybody!!!!!!

# 84 jade1 said, on July 9th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

“All it takes for evil to rule is for good men to do nothing.” Are you doing something?

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