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	<title>Comments on: Sarkozy says burqas are &#8216;not welcome&#8217; in France</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544711</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544711</guid>
		<description>#68, Hugh,

&lt;i&gt;billboards are often a symbols of women’s oppression&lt;/i&gt;

ooooo, now that is an excellent point. 

My weak argument (I hope it hold some validity) in response is, there is a difference between objectifying women for their femininity and subjugating and oppressing them because of they are women. 

I know I got tired of being held up as a sex symbol when I was younger, but I was never forced to physically suffer. I could mingle in society, talk with anyone willing to talk with me, and be regarded as an equal.

But damn, that is a good point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#68, Hugh,</p>
<p><i>billboards are often a symbols of women’s oppression</i></p>
<p>ooooo, now that is an excellent point. </p>
<p>My weak argument (I hope it hold some validity) in response is, there is a difference between objectifying women for their femininity and subjugating and oppressing them because of they are women. </p>
<p>I know I got tired of being held up as a sex symbol when I was younger, but I was never forced to physically suffer. I could mingle in society, talk with anyone willing to talk with me, and be regarded as an equal.</p>
<p>But damn, that is a good point.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Patso</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544567</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Patso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544567</guid>
		<description># 25 bobbo, not catching red herrings said, in part:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Only the oppressed Arab Muslim women wear the burka...&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Several evangelical Christian sects dress their women in clothes that stand out somewhat in modern society. And of course there are the Amish. But at least those clothes only go back to the 1800s -- burqas are from, what, the 700s?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Many Muslims believe that the Islamic holy book, the Qur&#039;an, and the collected traditions of the life of Muhammed, or hadith, require both men and women to dress and behave modestly in public. However, this requirement, called hijab, has been interpreted in many different ways by Islamic scholars (ulema) and Muslim communities (see Women and Islam); the burqa is not specifically mentioned in the Quran.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 25 bobbo, not catching red herrings said, in part:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Only the oppressed Arab Muslim women wear the burka&#8230;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Several evangelical Christian sects dress their women in clothes that stand out somewhat in modern society. And of course there are the Amish. But at least those clothes only go back to the 1800s &#8212; burqas are from, what, the 700s?</p>
<p>From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa</a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Many Muslims believe that the Islamic holy book, the Qur&#8217;an, and the collected traditions of the life of Muhammed, or hadith, require both men and women to dress and behave modestly in public. However, this requirement, called hijab, has been interpreted in many different ways by Islamic scholars (ulema) and Muslim communities (see Women and Islam); the burqa is not specifically mentioned in the Quran.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Hugh Ripper</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544448</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Ripper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544448</guid>
		<description>#62 Fusion 

Sorry. Not a good enough reason to ban something. Advertising billboards are often a symbols of women&#039;s oppression (not to mention oppression in general), but you wont see them being banned.

Also, does this mean I cant wear my ninja suit in France?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#62 Fusion </p>
<p>Sorry. Not a good enough reason to ban something. Advertising billboards are often a symbols of women&#8217;s oppression (not to mention oppression in general), but you wont see them being banned.</p>
<p>Also, does this mean I cant wear my ninja suit in France?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544275</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544275</guid>
		<description># 60 deowll said,  &quot;It is in the Koran.&quot;

I&#039;ve searched a couple of English versions and couldn&#039;t find it.  Where did you read that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 60 deowll said,  &#8220;It is in the Koran.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve searched a couple of English versions and couldn&#8217;t find it.  Where did you read that?</p>
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		<title>By: jbellies</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544247</link>
		<dc:creator>jbellies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544247</guid>
		<description>Turkey is 98% Muslim, yet Kemal Ataturk, &quot;father of Turkey&quot; banned traditional Muslim garb. Not just the burqa. Men were executed (true, some 80 years ago) for refusing to stop wearing the fez.  It was unfortunate for the individuals, but the results have been generally positive.  Wake up and smell the 20th ^H^H^H^H 21st century.

Perhaps Sarkozy is foreseeing a time when voluminous clothing will be banned everywhere because of suicide bombers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turkey is 98% Muslim, yet Kemal Ataturk, &#8220;father of Turkey&#8221; banned traditional Muslim garb. Not just the burqa. Men were executed (true, some 80 years ago) for refusing to stop wearing the fez.  It was unfortunate for the individuals, but the results have been generally positive.  Wake up and smell the 20th ^H^H^H^H 21st century.</p>
<p>Perhaps Sarkozy is foreseeing a time when voluminous clothing will be banned everywhere because of suicide bombers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544185</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544185</guid>
		<description>#64, qb,

Only those with &quot;bad habits&quot;. The &quot;good habits&quot; would be welcome.

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#64, qb,</p>
<p>Only those with &#8220;bad habits&#8221;. The &#8220;good habits&#8221; would be welcome.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: qb</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544137</link>
		<dc:creator>qb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544137</guid>
		<description>I guess a lot of nuns wouldn&#039;t be welcome as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess a lot of nuns wouldn&#8217;t be welcome as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544056</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544056</guid>
		<description>Oopps, in my #62 I called them temples. Wrong. They are called Mosques. Whatever the eff the difference is is beyond me, but hey, ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oopps, in my #62 I called them temples. Wrong. They are called Mosques. Whatever the eff the difference is is beyond me, but hey, &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1544055</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1544055</guid>
		<description>#59, Hugh,

&lt;i&gt;Many have the choise of wearing it or not. &lt;/i&gt;

Those Muslims who do not wear one do so because of that choice.

The whole rational behind the burka and hajib is not to protect the woman, but so a man will not be tempted by a woman&#039;s beauty. Those that do wear one do so because of the pressure from the men in her life - fathers, husbands, and local temple traditions.

Sarkozy&#039;s history does not mean he can not also have a valid opinion on this subject. I do agree with that many of the posts above are purely intent upon bashing Muslims for the sake of bashing Muslims. Here though, Sarkosy explained himself and his rational quite well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#59, Hugh,</p>
<p><i>Many have the choise of wearing it or not. </i></p>
<p>Those Muslims who do not wear one do so because of that choice.</p>
<p>The whole rational behind the burka and hajib is not to protect the woman, but so a man will not be tempted by a woman&#8217;s beauty. Those that do wear one do so because of the pressure from the men in her life &#8211; fathers, husbands, and local temple traditions.</p>
<p>Sarkozy&#8217;s history does not mean he can not also have a valid opinion on this subject. I do agree with that many of the posts above are purely intent upon bashing Muslims for the sake of bashing Muslims. Here though, Sarkosy explained himself and his rational quite well.</p>
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		<title>By: zorkor</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543994</link>
		<dc:creator>zorkor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543994</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Sarkozy there. Even though I am a Muslim but i dont think Burqas are necessary anymore considering you can get along easily now a days. Of course u need Burqas in a muslim countries like Saudi Arabia but when youre living in France, or any other western country, then you dont need it. I always say, when living in rome, do as the romans do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Sarkozy there. Even though I am a Muslim but i dont think Burqas are necessary anymore considering you can get along easily now a days. Of course u need Burqas in a muslim countries like Saudi Arabia but when youre living in France, or any other western country, then you dont need it. I always say, when living in rome, do as the romans do.</p>
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		<title>By: deowll</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543984</link>
		<dc:creator>deowll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543984</guid>
		<description>It is in the Koran. Besides they kill their women if they don&#039;t wear them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is in the Koran. Besides they kill their women if they don&#8217;t wear them.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Ripper</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543978</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Ripper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543978</guid>
		<description>#56 Fusion

Many Moslem women don&#039;t see it that way. Many have the choise of wearing it or not. 

I also cant believe that Sarkozy, a known womaniser, believe all this guff about it being a women rights issue. This is populist Moslem bashing, pure and simple. He&#039;s sure to get a good nationalist reaction.

I don&#039;t agree with the Muslim world view of things but I do believe in the right to worship whatever, whenever, as long as you do no harm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#56 Fusion</p>
<p>Many Moslem women don&#8217;t see it that way. Many have the choise of wearing it or not. </p>
<p>I also cant believe that Sarkozy, a known womaniser, believe all this guff about it being a women rights issue. This is populist Moslem bashing, pure and simple. He&#8217;s sure to get a good nationalist reaction.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the Muslim world view of things but I do believe in the right to worship whatever, whenever, as long as you do no harm.</p>
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		<title>By: faxon</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543969</link>
		<dc:creator>faxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543969</guid>
		<description>#54 Priests should wear whatever they like. So should you. We all should be able to wear whatever we want. The world is a richly diverse, wonderful place, with plenty of different opinions and ways of doing things. It is truly the variations that make the world so delightful. And if these women need a helping hand, they have loving husbands and fathers to guide them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#54 Priests should wear whatever they like. So should you. We all should be able to wear whatever we want. The world is a richly diverse, wonderful place, with plenty of different opinions and ways of doing things. It is truly the variations that make the world so delightful. And if these women need a helping hand, they have loving husbands and fathers to guide them.</p>
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		<title>By: faxon</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543965</link>
		<dc:creator>faxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543965</guid>
		<description>Who are we Westerners to criticize any other culture. This women certainly are not bothering anyone. If their society is based on this clothing, there is nothing westerners should have to say about it.  They have been here longer than us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who are we Westerners to criticize any other culture. This women certainly are not bothering anyone. If their society is based on this clothing, there is nothing westerners should have to say about it.  They have been here longer than us.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/22/sarkozy-says-burqas-are-not-welcome-in-france/comment-page-2/#comment-1543927</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=51434#comment-1543927</guid>
		<description>#52, Hugh,

This is not about religion. It is about the subjugation and humiliation of women for the sake of power to the men. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;“The burqa is not a religious sign, it’s a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly,” he said. “It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This, to me, sounds more like disapproval of anyone advocating inequality in women. Of course, there are still those who think it was a mistake to give the vote to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#52, Hugh,</p>
<p>This is not about religion. It is about the subjugation and humiliation of women for the sake of power to the men. </p>
<blockquote><p>“The burqa is not a religious sign, it’s a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly,” he said. “It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”</p></blockquote>
<p>This, to me, sounds more like disapproval of anyone advocating inequality in women. Of course, there are still those who think it was a mistake to give the vote to women.</p>
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