Comments on: Airbus could be asked to ground all long-range airliners http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/ General interest observations and true web-log. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:07:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: fccu http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548556 fccu Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:38:22 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548556 Valve actuators are really needed for complex tasks in the high power market.If the load requires accurate positioning, the electric actuators as well as the valve actuators has the advantage among others.That is why,to familiarize yourself in this kind of industrial application , knowing how an automation works is a wisely action and will positively keep us in track. Valve actuators are really needed for complex tasks in the high power market.If the load requires accurate positioning, the electric actuators as well as the valve actuators has the advantage among others.That is why,to familiarize yourself in this kind of industrial application , knowing how an automation works is a wisely action and will positively keep us in track.

]]> By: ridin the short bus http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548305 ridin the short bus Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:20:15 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548305 The latest (newer) Aircraft do have a GPS Primary active option that can be de-activated... So in this respect It appears you are correct(ish). As seen in FCOM-4 (Navigation) As taken from another site: see below Brand new, state of the art systems use VOR and DME inputs, as well as INS, IRS, GPS, and even LORAN to come up with what some manufacturers call "Best Computed Position". I'm out on a trip, so I don't have my manuals handy, but I believe the FMS computer uses a "Kollsman" filter to do this. Bottom line is it usually works very well, with accuracy that can be measured in meters. :-) The latest (newer) Aircraft do have a GPS Primary active option that can be de-activated… So in this respect It appears you are correct(ish). As seen in FCOM-4 (Navigation)

As taken from another site: see below
Brand new, state of the art systems use VOR and DME inputs, as well as INS, IRS, GPS, and even LORAN to come up with what some manufacturers call “Best Computed Position”. I’m out on a trip, so I don’t have my manuals handy, but I believe the FMS computer uses a “Kollsman” filter to do this. Bottom line is it usually works very well, with accuracy that can be measured in meters.
:-)

]]> By: ridin the short bus http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548250 ridin the short bus Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:52:52 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548250 #33..The Airbus philosophy is a very modern idea of how flight should be handled. And Yes Normal Law/Alternate Law/Direct Law are all fine concepts. Espcially in normal flight regime. And The Best part about Flying the A3x0 is no trimming is required by the Pilot to control the aircraft in stable flight....I will endeavour to say, that the GPS input is NOT the Primay consideration to the FMS to calculate Best know Position. It is one of several inputs that are run thru a piece of software that is referred to as a Kolsman Filter and the Best known/calculated position is a summation of these positions. Auto-Tuned DME Known possition ground DME Stations are the Highest priority in the FMS Calculation.Over water and out of range of DME then the INS/GPS are used. Also Rememeber that GPS was NOT used in the A320 FMS until version -208 or higher. And remember, the GPS system can be detuned for accuracy at any time by the US Government. The Honeywell-or Thales Versions of FM2 are the latest FMS renditions to the A320's currently coming out of germany or (Now China!!) If GPS was so accepted then we woild see more GPS Precsion approaches, at the end of the day the Ground stations are controlled locally and more reliable. I thnk GPS is a wonderful thing, and can ou remember how to navigate without a ND? It seesm those days are long gone, and thankfully, life is easier now than previously relying on Fixed positions and radar. Trangulating Tuned stations etc... A picture is literally worth a 1000 words, but we had those before GPS in the Airplane. As for the B777, the Engine Flameouts have been attributed to Rolls Royce Powered Aircraft only and (approx 30% of all Flying) and an Engineering solution is underway to correct a problem on the Engine. i Too am tired of the Boeing / Airbus debate, its getting Old... I wil ask you however... have you tried to perform a mechanical backup approach in the simulator? Including a turn to final... it can be hair raising!!! :-) Happy Flyng!! #33..The Airbus philosophy is a very modern idea of how flight should be handled. And Yes Normal Law/Alternate Law/Direct Law are all fine concepts. Espcially in normal flight regime. And The Best part about Flying the A3×0 is no trimming is required by the Pilot to control the aircraft in stable flight….I will endeavour to say, that the GPS input is NOT the Primay consideration to the FMS to calculate Best know Position. It is one of several inputs that are run thru a piece of software that is referred to as a Kolsman Filter and the Best known/calculated position is a summation of these positions. Auto-Tuned DME Known possition ground DME Stations are the Highest priority in the FMS Calculation.Over water and out of range of DME then the INS/GPS are used. Also Rememeber that GPS was NOT used in the A320 FMS until version -208 or higher. And remember, the GPS system can be detuned for accuracy at any time by the US Government. The Honeywell-or Thales Versions of FM2 are the latest FMS renditions to the A320’s currently coming out of germany or (Now China!!) If GPS was so accepted then we woild see more GPS Precsion approaches, at the end of the day the Ground stations are controlled locally and more reliable. I thnk GPS is a wonderful thing, and can ou remember how to navigate without a ND? It seesm those days are long gone, and thankfully, life is easier now than previously relying on Fixed positions and radar. Trangulating Tuned stations etc… A picture is literally worth a 1000 words, but we had those before GPS in the Airplane. As for the B777, the Engine Flameouts have been attributed to Rolls Royce Powered Aircraft only and (approx 30% of all Flying) and an Engineering solution is underway to correct a problem on the Engine. i Too am tired of the Boeing / Airbus debate, its getting Old… I wil ask you however… have you tried to perform a mechanical backup approach in the simulator? Including a turn to final… it can be hair raising!!! :-) Happy Flyng!!

]]> By: deowll http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548147 deowll Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:10:42 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548147 # 34 I didn't know you had such a gift for words. # 34 I didn’t know you had such a gift for words.

]]> By: Chris1 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548112 Chris1 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:15:57 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548112 Am I the only one who remembers the first Airbus crash, during the DEMONSTRATION FLIGHT! As I recall, the computer didn't know what a touch and go was, and proceeded to land off the end of the runway. The plane and the crew were lost. Apparently the crew was unable to regain control of the aircraft. I've worked with computers since the 70's and I am pretty comfortable with them. But there are two places I'm not: airplanes and elevators! C Am I the only one who remembers the first Airbus crash, during the DEMONSTRATION FLIGHT! As I recall, the computer didn’t know what a touch and go was, and proceeded to land off the end of the runway. The plane and the crew were lost. Apparently the crew was unable to regain control of the aircraft.

I’ve worked with computers since the 70’s and I am pretty comfortable with them. But there are two places I’m not: airplanes and elevators!

C

]]> By: Mark Derail http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548107 Mark Derail Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:55:20 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548107 Nice responses from pilots. But surely, a TomTom (TM) powered by simple AA batteries, wouldn't that kinda help when all else fails? If I was a commercial airline pilot, I'd carry one in my carry-on (just in case). #33 We could have used the model's name... Nice responses from pilots.

But surely, a TomTom (TM) powered by simple AA batteries, wouldn’t that kinda help when all else fails?

If I was a commercial airline pilot, I’d carry one in my carry-on (just in case).

#33 We could have used the model’s name…

]]> By: The Crypticone http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1548091 The Crypticone Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:05:09 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1548091 Definitely doesn't seem like one should feel comfortable with Airbus going to or flying from France. This is just going to be a boom for Boeing in the ongoing market share for these large jumbo jets. Starting to believe that "No Agenda" nonsense. I guess it is not bs anymore. follow me @ www.twitter.com/thecrypticone www.myspace.com/thecrypticone1 Definitely doesn’t seem like one should feel comfortable with Airbus going to or flying from France.

This is just going to be a boom for Boeing in the ongoing market share for these large jumbo jets.

Starting to believe that “No Agenda” nonsense. I guess it is not bs anymore.

follow me @ http://www.twitter.com/thecrypticone
http://www.myspace.com/thecrypticone1

]]> By: John C Dvorak http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547986 John C Dvorak Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:15:20 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547986 #29 we aim to please <img src="http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6577/bouncing2os.gif" alt="" /> #29 we aim to please

]]> By: abusdriver320 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547983 abusdriver320 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:09:18 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547983 Short bus driver, I am not sure which airbus you are familiar with, but my 320 uses GPS as its primary n, updating the ground based stations to create a bias velocity (drift) for the INRU's in case of GPS failure. Additionally, the control column (yoke) that Boeing insists on keeping (around since Orville and Wilbur) is outdated and needs to be replaced by a stick (see the F-16, Airbus is not alone). All the 737 guys who ride in the 320 love the idea. As for the safety of Airbus, Boeings have their own special brand of problems- 777's engines both flaming out on short final, 747's tank 5 fuel tanks blowing up, 737's rudders mysteriously slamming to one side in flight etc. As for the computers telling controlling the plane over the pilot, that argument is so old and tired I don't know where to begin with it. That has never been a problem for me in 6000 hours in the bus. 'Normal law' keeps the plane in very liberal limits. Transport aircraft don't need to go -15/+30 pitch, or more than 66AOB, plus Alpha max, which prevents the bus from stalling is a GREAT feature (the crew of AA965 would probably agree- max power and full back stick would have saved them). Now if only could get the 787 into the air within 2 years of schedule, that would be a something to brag about ;) Short bus driver, I am not sure which airbus you are familiar with, but my 320 uses GPS as its primary n, updating the ground based stations to create a bias velocity (drift) for the INRU’s in case of GPS failure.

Additionally, the control column (yoke) that Boeing insists on keeping (around since Orville and Wilbur) is outdated and needs to be replaced by a stick (see the F-16, Airbus is not alone). All the 737 guys who ride in the 320 love the idea.

As for the safety of Airbus, Boeings have their own special brand of problems- 777’s engines both flaming out on short final, 747’s tank 5 fuel tanks blowing up, 737’s rudders mysteriously slamming to one side in flight etc.

As for the computers telling controlling the plane over the pilot, that argument is so old and tired I don’t know where to begin with it. That has never been a problem for me in 6000 hours in the bus. ‘Normal law’ keeps the plane in very liberal limits. Transport aircraft don’t need to go -15/+30 pitch, or more than 66AOB, plus Alpha max, which prevents the bus from stalling is a GREAT feature (the crew of AA965 would probably agree- max power and full back stick would have saved them).

Now if only could get the 787 into the air within 2 years of schedule, that would be a something to brag about ;)

]]> By: Named http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547965 Named Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:31:57 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547965 20, So, the EU is doing the "right" thing? I agree. 20,

So, the EU is doing the “right” thing? I agree.

]]> By: MikeN http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547905 MikeN Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:51:03 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547905 That's a lot of ifs. I think we should ground all air travel until they can prove that their flight will not be brought down by terrorists. That’s a lot of ifs. I think we should ground all air travel until they can prove that their flight will not be brought down by terrorists.

]]> By: billabong http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547891 billabong Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:57:52 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547891 The picture on this post sucks!Please use just regular photographs.The movement takes my interest away from the story.The only way this technique works for me is bouncing boobs. The picture on this post sucks!Please use just regular photographs.The movement takes my interest away from the story.The only way this technique works for me is bouncing boobs.

]]> By: ridin the short bus http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547866 ridin the short bus Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:36:25 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547866 And for those who have not heard the phrase: "If Aint Boing I Aint Going" Here ya Go!! I am an American. I work With Airbus Aircraft Systems Every day... and I still Prefer the Boeing!!! I was a B747 Specialist/B767 Development Engineer and Now I work as an A320 development Engineer... I prefer the Boeing!!! But in all respect, the Airbus does have redundent systems. The Boeing has a Control Column... Ya still feel like a Pilot!!! But to stay on Subject...Europe wont stop/ground any Airbus Aircraft..The backlash and eceonomic negative effects and world wide embarrassment are tooo great..it wont happen, this is some Lawyers Scretactic crazy Idea..Only.. And with several Hundred A330's in the Air (my Company has many!!) And 1 Crash in bad weahter in undetermined conditions..it wont/cant happen.. just retorik again!!! And for those who have not heard the phrase: “If Aint Boing I Aint Going” Here ya Go!! I am an American. I work With Airbus Aircraft Systems Every day… and I still Prefer the Boeing!!!
I was a B747 Specialist/B767 Development Engineer and Now I work as an A320 development Engineer… I prefer the Boeing!!! But in all respect, the Airbus does have redundent systems. The Boeing has a Control Column… Ya still feel like a Pilot!!!
But to stay on Subject…Europe wont stop/ground any Airbus Aircraft..The backlash and eceonomic negative effects and world wide embarrassment are tooo great..it wont happen, this is some Lawyers Scretactic crazy Idea..Only.. And with several Hundred A330’s in the Air (my Company has many!!) And 1 Crash in bad weahter in undetermined conditions..it wont/cant happen.. just retorik again!!!

]]> By: jescott418 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547859 jescott418 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:25:26 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547859 The AirBus has become the DC10 of the century. I don't think its right to assume the plane is to blame. But that is what will happen. Just like auto accidents. We tend to blame the car for low tires, bad brakes, and such. When it really is the lack of the driver or owner of that vehicle to maintain and drive it properly. One way or another its human error that causes most accidents. I think we need to realize that we can prevent some accidents but we can never eliminate them. The AirBus has become the DC10 of the century. I don’t think its right to assume the plane is to blame. But that is what will happen. Just like auto accidents. We tend to blame the car for low tires, bad brakes, and such.
When it really is the lack of the driver or owner of that vehicle to maintain and drive it properly. One way or another its human error that causes most accidents. I think we need to realize that we can prevent some accidents but we can never eliminate them.

]]> By: qb http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/06/30/airbus-could-be-asked-to-ground-all-long-range-airliners/comment-page-1/#comment-1547856 qb Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:17:31 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=52060#comment-1547856 #23 It's pretty hard to find a commercial plane built in the last 10 years that isn't fly-by-wire. #23 It’s pretty hard to find a commercial plane built in the last 10 years that isn’t fly-by-wire.

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