With a vote set for high noon on Tuesday, the political tide in the Senate has shifted to now favor the White House and Pentagon in their pivotal fight to strike new procurement funds for the F-22 fighter.
Just last week, conventional wisdom held that the $1.75 billion authorization would easily survive a challenge on the floor. But fearful of embarrassing President Barack Obama, Democrats appear to be moving back toward the White House, which has mounted its own late-breaking campaign to win the last votes.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is the public point man for the administration, making calls to senators and delivering a toughly worded speech last week in Chicago. But as the political stakes have become more evident, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel has also begun working the phones, and Vice President Joe Biden last week even called his old friend, Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), an ardent F-22 backer.
It’s a fight some Democrats would argue that Obama was foolish to make, raising the stakes unnecessarily with early veto threats. But the F-22 termination is Gates’s signature issue in changing the Pentagon budget.
When you are over a Trillion in the hole. Its about time the government cancelled something in spending. But so many other things go on.
The war in Afghanistan is not going away anytime soon. That’s got to be killing us in debt! If the terrorist can’t beat us in fight they are sure doing a good job helping us go broke!
scrap’em all and break out the electro-gravitic craft(s), i say.
sure, the pentagon overcharges us everything BUT..
first off, If they stop the F-22 program, they MUST uphold the export ban. period. Russia is already on par or better than us tech wise, and letting this tech out will only cause us major grief down the line our F-15 fleet is very tired as evidence of fatigued airframes from 25+yrs of use is mounting…
given that we are about to let Israel drag us into a very dangerous, useless (and insane) war with Iran and by extension Russia, (due to defense contract obligations with Iran–and possibly China)
-I figure no later than November (after the October deadline) we will be warring with countries that for the first time, (possibly ever) that are equal to or superior than us in weapons platforms.
Make no mistake, this war will be very costly. we’ve had a cake walk all these years, tactfully picking on countries that are 20yrs or more behind us overall in weapons technology.
-also of major note is that Iran has full capability to manufacture all their weapons systems *in Iran* and has almost double the manpower on the ground as we do..and their personnel is not spread out all over creation trying to secure pipeline deals like our’s is either. -sad to say, but personally, i don’t think the morons in the white house or congress have a clue about Iran’s military capability.
-Much like Afghanistan, Iran’s population hangs out in the mountains, going in their on the ground will end up being a clusterf*ck -esp given that gaining air superiority will NOT be the cake walk that Iraq was. We used PsyOps/Mind control EMR technology on an unsuspecting Republican Guard in Iraq. Iran has been fully briefed from Russia on the EMR technology we used in Iraq (we initially got/learned most of it from Russia) and has the ability to counter a good portion of it as well as return the favour in kind.
Signing on to a war with Iran will cost us greatly if it extends past one week…going in with a limited supply of advanced front line technology against a foe that has equal footing and a lot more reserve units to spare than us is plain, hugely ignorant, stupidity.
(let’s not forget we as a country are BROKE on top of it – creating major friction with the people who underwrite our debt is…how stupid??
The F35-II is not due to hit the tarmac in production until 2011, iirc. -by then it will be too late.
We will be in a full blown war if not in 4 months, then 8 months *MAX* (-remember, the democrats are the war party and the repubs are the recession/depression/clean up crew party, contrary to what many think)
Obama will lead (and i use “lead” facetiously) us into full blown war, count on it. (more correctly, his puppet masters will. -he’s just a salesman hired to sell the war to the masses)
If they cancel the F-22 on the brink of war without the new platform fully prepped with well-trained maintenance crews, pilots and supply chains *globally* up and running, we will be cremated. -we rely on too many foreign assets as it is for our supplies.
regardless of the 700+ bases we have globally, it would be far too easy for foreign entities to lock us out of our supply chains. -esp if we back Israels pre-emptive strike plans. -we will be seen as [backing] the bad guys (if not already)
IMO, people around the globe are far more fed up with having to deal with Israel’s meddling in their affairs than they are of Iran’s.
Unless we come clean on this war and either leave Israel completely on their own, or better, bomb *them* for an unprovoked attack on Iran, we will be screwed royally.
Personally i see that as the best option out. we have been manipulated and used as “the muscle” and lap dog by Israel for far too long. if we could use this as an opportunity to rid ourselves of that scourge. sorry, but they want to be religious fanatics, fine, let them do it on their own dime and blood. we have already foolishly supplied them with a relatively huge nuclear arsenal as it is.
There is too much political subterfuge going on right now between Iran, Israel and the U.S. (et al)
If we cancel the F-22 before this conflict/war is resolved, or before we have at least 150 f-35′s on the hooks, it will be suicide.
-to think we can even attempt warring on 3 fronts is ludicrous..all our “talent” is long gone. (-it’s not THAT hard to jam our sattelite tech)
Why don’t we hear from the Generals or Field Commanders on the ground? they ultimately know what we need to hold us over until after the F-35′s are on deck. -DefSec Gates is CIA scum and in bed with obama’s handlers. i wouldn’t trust his evaluations if my life depended on it.
-lastly… 40 years since we walked on the moon..and we’re still using the same 40yr old technology to launch into space. -anyone who thinks we have not mastered electrogravitic flight is a complete idiot. the principal legwork was laid out in the late 1800′s, early 1900′s ffs.. if Einstein didn’t go screw up “the science mind” with his bloody theoretical math, we’d probably be 40-50yrs into using it already. -a smart guy [whom i practically idolized growing up] but he completely screwed up modernscience with his theoretical-math crap. almost as bad as what the Catholic Church did to classical science)
Remember in 2001, Rumsfeld announced, “um, we cant find 2.3 trillion dollars” then they proofed the WTC the next day and the statement was never addressed? where do supposed the bulk of the money went? canned ham and Blackwater? -i think [and hope] not.
Lets go Navy & Air Force, stop yanking our chains with this jet powered crap and let loose the technology we should have been using 20 years ago. -our troops will need it now more than ever..
-s
(ok….mmmmaybe i should keep my thoughts to myself..but..)
There are so many other weapons systems that needs more funding. Scraping this old technology will allow for more funding of nextgen weapons.
#4 – PMitchell – I see another Jimmy Carter canceling the B1 bombers fiasco
And shame on Carter for funding B-2 (Stealth Bomber) project instead?
Jimmy Carter never funded the B2 so get over your lying liberal self
The Horrible Piece of shit Presidient did nothing but destroy our military and give our tactical advantages away
ie the Panama canal ( which is now run by the chinese)
he sat by and let the Shaw of Iran fall and brought in the modern well funded radical Islam terror state to the world
shall I go on
15, GOP-induced recession? Strange. Last I heard the Libs have had control of Congress since 2006.
Obama is likely to lose control of Congress in 2010. So you libs had better live it up while you have it good.
Hopefully “free” universal health care won’t end up like this mess in Canada: http://tinyurl.com/2qm8an
Just curious: is this the first time in Obama’s entire political career (is it 6 years?) that he has ever voted to cut something?
Does he even know how? Someone needs to dig out the “Veto” stamp that Bush lost during his first term.
#24 – PMitchell – Jimmy Carter never funded the B2 so get over your lying liberal self
Sorry for breaking your illusions.
Funny comment about the Shah of Iran! Guess those pesky Iranians had nothing to do with him being deposed.
And, shame on Carter for letting Panama have control of the Panama (!) Canal. After all we did to help them secede from Colombia, too. The ingrates.
BTW- you may want to look into the role the US played with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan when you talk about empowering terrorists. And also the role of rich, religious conservatives in Saudi Arabia (our great, wonderful ally).
The research project that led to the B2 was started under the Carter administration, also.
The F-22 is widely recognized as a new solution to a problem that no longer exists.
Modern weapons platforms are more and more based on the intelligence of their munitions, delivered from long distances and with extreme high performance. We are quickly approaching an era where to dogfighters will never be anywhere near visual range before the fight is over, since the weapons have such great standoff ranges. Even the era of the conventional bomber flying over a target is basically a thing of the past, with precision highly ‘intelligent’ munitions (including air launched cruise missiles) doing a much more effective job.
Having to support innefective weapons systems such as the F-22 puts a severe burden on the military, of which economics is only a minor factor.
#25 – Guyver – Hopefully “free” universal health care won’t end up like this mess in Canada
It’s so much better in the US.
30, HUGE difference between a life-threatening disease and being in pain. There is no perfect system.
If I had to pick the lesser of two evils then I would pick what we have now. At least I can pick and choose who I want to see. But that’s the “problem” isn’t it? It’s not fair that some can have easy access while others are encumbered with no choice and long waiting lists.
Getting back to the subject of this thread, the problem with “good enough” national defense is there is a huge tendency to be unprepared for future combat situations. Bush inherited a weaker military than what was handed to Clinton. Obama has gotten a stronger military thanks to the Bush administration.
In a perfect world you will never have to spend one penny on national defense. The problem is information is more quickly and easily stolen than ever before. Our enemies are doing their best to bridge any gap and potentially leap frog us. When and if a future crisis happens with potentially China or Russia, you don’t want to have military technology comparable to our enemies. You want to have superior tech.
One of the big reasons why we can leverage what power we do military is largely due to superior tech. Our enemies easily out number us. But sure, go and balance the budget and choke the military while providing all sorts of pork barrel “Stimulus”.
When and if something pops up, we will all be basically say “Damn I didn’t see that one coming”.
http://tinyurl.com/kmcfza
Somehow that bothers some people and they want to make life “more fair” by making others pay for someone else’s health problems. Would I like to help others? Sure I would. Do I want to subsidize someone else’s recreational lifestyle because they take no personal responsibility? Nope. Do I want my own health care services to dwindle as my wait times increase and quality suffers? Absolutely not.
Sorry for the last post…. last paragraph should follow the 2nd paragraph.
#31 – Guyver – HUGE difference between a life-threatening disease and being in pain.
Perhaps you missed that they mentioned people being diagnosed with cancer. And who says that that rich fellow in Canada wouldn’t have survived if he waited?
At least I can pick and choose who I want to see.
If you’ve got money in the bank…
the problem with “good enough” national defense is there is a huge tendency to be unprepared for future combat situations.
Who’s most prepared to stomp out another nation? Even if you slash the budget in half, the US still comes out on top.
Umm Rush
take the blue pill or the red pill..gulp…
Confusion….oh yeah time to blame something on Obama
Seven airframes will not make any difference in US air defense capabilities. The USAF will get all 1987 aircraft as purchased. Plus, let’s keep in mind the F-22A is a very talented, one trick pony…
$600,000,000,000 per year goes to health insurance companies. They are not going down without a fight.
Figure they spend a few billion dollars to line the pockets of legislators and propaganda machine. You can see this is a massive uphill battle to fix this burden on our economy.
Thank you leader obama for taking this up on your first term as president.
The conservatives are wringing their hands and weeping on how to come up with $100 billion a year for Obama’s healthcare reforms.
The military budget is $650 billion a year.
Would we really be in any greater danger if we spend $550 billion a year on defense?
Heck, we might be safer.
#31, Guyver,
If I had to pick the lesser of two evils then I would pick what we have now. At least I can pick and choose who I want to see.
Great. What insurance company are you with? Do they allow you to see physicians not in their plan? Or attend hospitals they don’t have agreements with? Can you really pick and choose your physician and hospital?
Now, in Canada, what citizen is restricted by the insurance plan from seeing the physician he wants to see? Please, you claim it, back it up.
It’s not fair that some can have easy access while others are encumbered with no choice and long waiting lists.
Yes, so very true. Which is just another reason Canada has such a better health care system.
Oh, Boss Limpdick and Sean Hannity have been saying different? Have you ever considered that maybe they are lying to you?
I rarely advocate any Youtube video as an authority. But Jagmeister posted something well worth watching.
Do I want to subsidize someone else’s recreational lifestyle because they take no personal responsibility?
If you have health insurance (or really any type of insurance) you already do. There are very few policies that prevent one from skydiving or snake handling.
Do I want my own health care services to dwindle as my wait times increase and quality suffers? Absolutely not.
Instead, you would rather continue to pay more and more every year to get less coverage. Physicians spend more and more time on the phone arguing with insurance companies that the patient needs a procedure, specific medication, or a treatment. If the procedure is not widely accepted the insurance people might still call it experimental and decline that way. Or the co-pays could bankrupt you as they have all those who couldn’t meet their end of the bills; 60% of all personal bankruptcies are caused by health insurance co-pays.
Fortunately for the rest of us, Obama and the Democrats in Congress are listening to the majority of Americans and doing something.
So fuck you and your selfish attitude.
Here’s a deal to make…you dems don’t waste the 1 trillion dollars on health care and the repubs won’t waste 1.75 billion on the planes.
Both sides are doing nothing but wasting trillions of tax payers dollars. The USA is 8 trillion dollars in debt now and the interest on that debt this year alone will be $300 billion dollars.
When election time comes,vote against every incumbent. I don’t care if you vote democrat or republican. Keep replacing the jokers until we get some people in there that will do whats right for America and its’ people.
Unimatrix,
For starters, saving 18,000 Americans a year from needless death is not “WASTING” money.
Secondly, thats a trillion dollars over TEN YEARS. That’s 180,000 saved American lives… not to mention increased tax revenues from healthier and ALIVE Americans who can keep their jobs. It’s also money spent making our products competitive globally.
But these airplanes and most military crap that blows up? That’s our money thrown down a rat hole.