Click pic to embiggen
The map is from two years ago. While the Senator’s positions (and Senators) may have changed, it’s unlikely any of the costs listed have gone down.
Is the public option dead? Liberals fear losing it. The White House is pushing ‘curve bending,’ whatever the hell that means. Republicans, on the other hand, are trying to scare the elderly and spouting other blatantly false crap which hurts their credibility. And then, out in the far reaches of the galaxy that even Hubble can’t see, is Glenn Beck.
15,
Things look greener on the other side.
Video of Japanese Government fining Employers for having FAT employees: http://tinyurl.com/4nzn8w
Article on said Japanese policy: http://tinyurl.com/5shmkx
Canadian Forced to Come to the U.S. for Cancer Surgery due to Socialized Medicine policies in Canada: http://tinyurl.com/356v7m
British Government Funds Teen’s Boob Job: http://tinyurl.com/deznof
The news this morning cited a poll in which 80% of Americans are satisfied or are happy with their current health care coverage / plan.
My office visit co-pays are $10. My ER visit co-pays are $50. And my medicine co-pay is $5.
I have ZERO desire in seeing my health care benefits being taxed nor am I unhappy with my coverage.
This whole issue is nothing more than class warfare and redistribution of wealth for politic’s sake.
On top of that, I have zero desire in paying for someone else’s abortions because they’re not personally responsible nor do I want to have any cosmetic surgery covered for shallow people. Lastly, I don’t want to pay a “fat tax” because I like my drinks with sugar in them and I happen to enjoy eating dead animal flesh even though there are liberals who are screaming bloody murder that the beef industry is causing man-made global warming: http://tinyurl.com/5t3rwu
15,
Things look greener on the other side.
Video of Japanese Government fining Employers for having FAT employees.
Article on said Japanese policy.
15,
Canadian Forced to Come to the U.S. for Cancer Surgery due to Socialized Medicine policies in Canada.
British Government Funds Teen’s Boob Job.
The news this morning cited a poll in which 80% of Americans are satisfied or are happy with their current health care coverage / plan.
My office visit co-pays are $10. My ER visit co-pays are $50. And my medicine co-pay is $5.
I have ZERO desire in seeing my health care benefits being taxed nor am I unhappy with my coverage.
This whole issue is nothing more than class warfare and redistribution of wealth for politic’s sake.
On top of that, I have zero desire in paying for someone else’s abortions because they’re not personally responsible nor do I want to have any cosmetic surgery covered for shallow people. Lastly, I don’t want to pay a “fat tax” because I like my drinks with sugar in them and I happen to enjoy eating dead animal flesh even though there are liberals who are screaming bloody murder that the beef industry is causing man-made global warming.
Sorry on broken link.
Article on Japanese Policy.
#17, bob
Public Option = Government Controlled Health care.
Hhmmm, is that worse than the system we currently have?
While there will always be those who disagree for the sake of disagreeing, Canadians much prefer their form of Health Care. The British prefer their form of Health Care. The French prefer their form, as does Denmark, Germany, Italy, Norway, Finland Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, . . . . They all have longer as well as healthier lives.
It seems to me the only ones that like the American style of heal care are the right wing nuts and the CEOs earning $ tens of millions annually and lobbyists profiting off of them.
@ 22 Guyver
So have you actually _experienced_ the difference?
Finding some fringe articles really doesn’t demonstrate anything interesting – other than any system isn’t perfect. But we all knew that didn’t we?
That said – from your posting you seem to be claiming the current system is perfect or close enough to. If that’s you point of view I understand, but disagree.
You even weakly claim on TV that 80% of US citizens agree. Hmmm. Might be nice to have a link there – as not all news sources are equal. Seems highly unlikely to me.
Perhaps you should look at studies and articles that cover health care in general. In all that I’ve seen universal health care, is more efficient (ie costs less) and people get better care for their money. Ie a doubly whammy of benefit.
If you can find some articles from respected sources that demonstrate something different I’d be very interested to see them.
If not, then at best all this seems like scaremongering.
24, Or there are middle-class people who are currently happy with their present form of health care and have no desire to see their benefits get taxed regardless of how much money they make or what their occupation is.
If universal health care is going to be run much like the Department of Education, then we’re all in trouble. We have a growing population of people who are less and less educated thanks to our government and these same people are competing for lower paying jobs with fewer benefits. Imagine if we improved education by eliminating incompetent teachers and eliminate the teacher’s union what that would do to the average American’s educational background. People could compete for better paying jobs with better benefits. That won’t help the people at or near retirement, but that’s a far better way than to create another bureaucracy.
Ross Perot said it best when he said Universal Health Care will have the efficiency of the Post Office, the compassion of the IRS, all on a Pentagon budget.
Guyver,
i>The news this morning cited a poll in which 80% of Americans are satisfied or are happy with their current health care coverage / plan.
I noticed you didn’t cite your information, so I took the liberty of finding some polls myself. Does four neutral polls decide anything for you?
I am in favor of a single payer system for everyone. The premiums currently paid to private insurance companies is more than enough to finance a system that covers everyone. Yes, the same money currently paid in premiums would be collected as taxes, but this would still remain revenue neutral.
24, Oh I never said the system was perfect. That would be stupid to conclude that this is what I was saying. I’m saying that I am happy with what I have and see no benefit in raising my taxes or rationing off my benefits.
And yes I have experienced the difference. I’ve lived overseas and the systems are not better. So what? I also have friends in the medical field. Not surprisingly, none of them are for it. Scaremongering? Nah. Far from it. Sort of strange that the Congress wants to get this through before they recess. Seems like they want to do the “damage” before coming home to their angry constituents.
To the youth in this country: Get a better education. Great employers seeking better educated and talented employees offer good benefits such as health care. Public education is the root of this problem IMHO. Empower parents to put their children in better schools and things will work their way out.
For those at or near retirement, suck it up. We already have medicare and medicaid. Both need to be reformed and are already a form of social medicine. There’s a lot of waste there which can be revamped to be better than what it is. That being said, the Constitution never said the Federal government’s role is to provide health care of its citizens.
But I’m not a heartless, evil, greedy person. There is ONE way I am willing to go with universal health care. The catch is, we all go to a fair tax system and eliminate income tax. I can meet you half-way. But if you are a partisan hack and want to do class warfare with universal health care by raising disproportionate amount of taxes on certain classes of people then all bets are off.
Fringe articles? The boob job link was from my recollecting a posting made on Dvorak a while back. And the beef article quoted the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. I’m sure you can find a link to that quite easily. The other links are from ABC and CNN news. Good grief! Fringe indeed.
“Weakly” claim is entirely your interpretation of it. I even pointed out it was from a poll and I think most intelligent people already know that there are fudge factors and some skewing of said polls. The key thing to note is trends. As for the news, it was either from CNN or Fox. I’m guessing you’re a partisan hack and will go ape sh1t because I might have used something from Fox.
Either way, Obama has the Congress till 2010. And at the rate he and his Congress are spending, it’s unlikely he’s going to have control of Congress after the elections next year. Best of luck.
#27 Guyver,
Ross Perot said it best when he said Universal Health Care will have the efficiency of the Post Office, the compassion of the IRS, all on a Pentagon budget.
And Ross Perot is a fool. We currently have one of the best postal services in the world. Service is fast and inexpensive. But then the American health insurance industry wastes 25% of income on bureaucracy. The Canadian system is closer to 1%.
Tell my doctor about the compassion of the insurance companies that refused a treatment for one of his patients. The patient died.
As for the cost, when you can pay your CEO over $100,000,000 then yes, you have a Pentagon budget.
Yup, sure sounds like Ross Perot doesn’t know what he is talking about.
#28, Guyver,
I even pointed out it was from a poll and I think most intelligent people already know that there are fudge factors and some skewing of said polls. The key thing to note is trends. As for the news, it was either from CNN or Fox.
The fudge factor comes from misquoting a statistic that is phony. It was good enough to use earlier but suddenly when confronted with contrary facts, you don’t know anything.
The trend remains, people want affordable health care that covers everyone.
*
For those at or near retirement, suck it up. We already have medicare and medicaid.
Fuck you asshole!!! Suck it up??? Suck this!!!
A woman I know developed a serious heart problem around age 60. She was let go from her job as a nurse because they didn’t have any light duties for her. Her insurance ran out. She had another heart attack but couldn’t afford the procedure. They did it anyway and she lost her house. In those four and a half years from when she first became ill until she qualified for Medicare ruined her life.
She brought her children into the world. She worked most of her life and paid her taxes. She and her husband built their house together(he died ten years earlier). She volunteered in the community. And you want her to “suck it up”?
That is one story, there are hundreds of thousands like her. Bankrupted because of medical costs. Your mother must be proud.
27, And none of your polls covers the one I regurgitated. So what?
The poll I referenced from my rectal data bank was referencing people’s satisfaction with their current health care.
If the polls you’re citing are accurate then there’s absolutely no need for the Blue Dog Democrats to be worried about passing the bill.
Claire McCaskill Healthcare Forum 7/27.
@ 28 Guyver
So we agree the US system is not perfect. That’s a start.
Okay let’s go a stage further – do you think it is the best in the world as it is? If not then what non-universal health care system is better?
‘I’ve lived overseas and the systems are not better.’
Pray tell – where, and for how long? And was it the same or worse and how?
I ask because I don’t believe you have any meaningful experience. Why? Because I’ve lived here for many years, and in Europe for any years. It’s obvious.
‘The other links are from ABC and CNN news. Good grief! Fringe indeed.’
Fringe in the sense – that you can always find isolated examples of when things don’t work, or have problems. It doesn’t say anything about the system. It’s from the fringe of the system. Unless you think there are millions of boob jobs on the NHS? No? No – because they aim to only do them in cases where there is disfigurement. Which is fair enough. So its fringe and in this context scaremongering.
‘But I’m not a heartless, evil, greedy person. There is ONE way I am willing to go with universal health care. The catch is, we all go to a fair tax system and eliminate income tax.’
No. You are at least a heartless, greedy person – I’m assuming your not a stupid person – because you claim it’s acceptable for someone say earning 100 million dollar bonus to pay the same tax as someone earning say 20k USD. What a crock. Lets call a spade a spade.
‘Weakly” claim is entirely your interpretation of it.’
Its weak as your claim is hearsay.
On the news I heard this morning that 100% of Americans think people using the name ‘Guyver’ are health care reform scaremongers.
That has as much strength as your claim.
Give us the link. I’m fascinated now to see where this supposedly solid data is coming from.
29, You can’t be serious. I’ll disagree with you on the post office. “Free” health care isn’t cheap and disproportionately burdens people who are higher income earners. ‘Nuff said. Perot if nothing else is at least an independent.
30, There was no misquoting. All statistics use carefully chosen words. I have affordable health care. ‘Nuff said on that.
Sorry to hear about the supposed woman you know, but Life is unfair. Grow up or Suck it up. The Federal government is not authorized by the Constitution to provide health care for its citizens.
Liberals like yourself try to make life “more fair” by riding on the shoulders of others who take matters into their own hands and achieve.
Speaking of trends.
@33 Guyver
‘You can’t be serious. I’ll disagree with you on the post office.’
How so? Please explain.
Do you send all your letters fedex?
@33 Guyver
And whilst you’re at it, could you explain how you got this cheap ‘excellent’ health care plan?
Where do I sign up? What do I need to do?
Hey if I can get great cheap health care in the current system, hey sign me up. Tell me how I do it. I’d really like to know.
32, You will always find someone who is dissatisfied with what they have or don’t have. IMHO the health care here is the best in the world. You have foreign dignitaries who come here for 2nd to none surgeries. You have Americans going overseas for procedures that are not considered ethical over here (i.e. Farrah Fawcett) or want to “Wal-Mart” shop for cosmetic surgeries.
I’ve lived 4 years in Germany. 5 years in South Korea. And intermittently throughout other parts of the world. Problems are wait lists, dated equipment (yes we have better hardware here), and being required to get prescriptions for trivial things like ASPIRIN.
The “fringe” examples are to illustrate what can and will likely happen. I don’t see a need to pay for it or nurture going down that path. The Japanese example is an entire country… hardly a “fringe” example. And over here there’s already been talk of a “fat tax” for people who buy sugary drinks and eat fast food. So yes, I can see us going down a path towards something similar to the Japanese once government is also regulating employers over the health of their employees.
You will get rationing because you have a fixed number of doctors and the liberals want government to force doctors how much they can charge. Doctors are not compelled to be within an insurance’s network.
With regards to tax, I think it’s completely fair and ethical to tax EVERYONE except for the poor the same tax rate, not the same tax. If you for some reason feel charging everyone above poverty the same rate, then you just have a case of p3nis envy.
As for the hearsay, I already mentioned it was Fox or CNN. So what? I was just passing along what I had heard this morning. If it’s from Fox, odds are it’s a Rasmussen poll… if it’s CNN it’s probably a Gallup poll. But I’ll tell you what, I’ll try to hunt it down for you because I’m such a nice guy.
>The current trends in health insurance is HSAs and higher deductibles. Why does it seem logical to pay a company for a service which equates to customers paying more out of pocket for health care?
Because that’s the way it used to be. Why shouldn’t insurance be insurance against a catastrophe, rather than paying every little expense? Do you tremble at the sight of auto-insurance deductibles too?
The 50 million wth no insurance is really close to 10 million when you subtract illegal immigrants, people eligible for Medicaid who don’t bother to sign up because they are healthy, and people who can afford insurance but would rather not spend the money.
34, The USPS is terrible with packages. When I send packages I end up paying more to ship via USPS. A package in a box over 12″x12″ (or something like this) but weighs as much as a smaller box package incurs about twice the price. Tracking costs extra as does signature confirmation. Not to mention when packages are lost or late, the USPS doesn’t tell you when it will be scheduled for delivery or where it currently is. On the matter of letters, how many postage rate hikes have we had in the last handful of years?
35, Pretty easy. Go back to school and get a good education. Good employers have a tendency to hire better educated / qualified employees. Those more desirable employees are rewarded with better benefits. For the children, kill the Department of Education, reform education, give parents vouchers so they can vote where their kids go to school, test competency of teachers (while empowering principals the power to fire substandard teachers on the spot), and make education the responsibility of the State. Will this fix every person’s problem? Probably not. But I would argue it would fix a lot. IMHO the poor education kids have been getting is the root problem for being unattractive to better employers who have the better benefits.
More government isn’t the solution.