Obama on gov’t health care: “it’s the Post Office that’s always having problems”

Obama should have stayed on topic. Perfect examples are available with Medicare, Medicaid, VA hospitals.

Or he could have brought up the sweet deal with Big Pharma he cut…

No need at all to pick on the shining example of government and bureaucratic efficiencies at the good old USPS.

#2 – pedro

# 3 Jägermeister – but I thought Obama could do no wrong…

Oh. Unless he is showing he is just human. Then the faux pas is acceptable and endearing.

Words mean something. Especially from the leader of the free world attempting to sway opinion.

#3, nice video. Had a good laugh.

#4 – Animby said USPS – probably the most successful agency of the US Govt

Yeah right….and for 2009 they currently have a shortfall of $2 BILLION dollars. Really successful agency.

Everyone should do a little research on the other “successful” government agencies Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Point your browser to the Google and do a search on each of those programs and use the keyword “shortfall” with each of those agency names. Those programs are owed TRILLIONS of dollars to get them solvent.

So with these “successful” government agency’s in the red for TRILLIONS of dollars there is no way that Obama or anybody else is going to convince me that the government should be handed the keys to run the healthcare system. The government cannot run ANYTHING effeciently, effectively, and economically. They never have and never will.

#12 – Ah_Yea

Most (not all) postal workers are incompetent. Believe it or not, they put the best in public view. The slugs are behind the scenes.

USPS is a good operation. If you want to send expensive stuff send it through UPS because of the superior tracking. The postal service is good for just about everything else, though.

#9 Thanks for the jpg, I will share it with others.

USPS is an agent of the US gov – but privatized by Nixon. Capitalism subsidized by taxpayers.

Try to get a bill through Congress raising the rates on corporate junk mail to a profitable level. Dead silence from the Blue Dogs and Republikans.

Which is why the single largest producer of junk mail in the U.S. is Capital One.

Same as it ever was – even before Nixon.

But, then, some of y’all might have to read something. Like history.

You were losers last November. Same as it ever was.

I read many years ago that the Post Office was harassing companies for using UPS or FedEx. It is actually illegal to use anything other than the Post Office for certain parcel deliveries.

I think everyone here is missing what he was trying to say, and apparently should have rephrased. He means that private enterprise shoudl not feel financially threatened by socialized medicine, because FINANCIALLY the post office has had a hard time against Fedex and UPS. He didn’t call the USPS inefficient, or anything else the quick-to-criticize have inferred, he was merely stating an example of how private enterprise can still stay competitive against a socialized model.

#24, just remember to get the forever stamps, otherwise you will have to pay more next time.

Hold it, klippoth. Rethink what you just said. “he was merely stating an example of how private enterprise can still stay competitive against a socialized model.”

So why bother with a socialized model if the current system is competitive?

Why not just have some oversight and regulation of the insurance industry?

EvilPoliticians.
“Most (not all) postal workers are incompetent.”
Probably true, but you don’t get reelected insulting your voter base.

pedro.
“Does this mean that doctors from the new public healthcare initiative will go berzek and shoot at patients in the waiting room?”
Yes, it does. That would be called “End of Life Counseling”. It’s in the Plan!!

27, and the rest of you..

4 people run MOST of the health care systems in the USA..PERIOD.
Only competition is WHO can get the HIGHEST prices.
There are only (MAYBE) 4-5 persons running the banking industry in the USA..
3 in the insurance industry, dont let a name FOOL YOU.

IMHO..(in my honest opinion)
When a person..
doesnt worry about WHO pays the bills, as long as they are ALL paid.
DOESNT worry about how much in in the bank..(not the one he OWNS) no matter WHAT he buys..
Can BUY a new car ANY TIME HE WISHES…
Doesnt call the kids, he calls the NANNY..
Has a HOME BUILD so that he can ACTUALLY get away from OTHERS(including kids and wife) and they cant FIND HIM..
HAS more then 2 homes, not counting the yacht, house boat..
Doesnt worry how far the STORE IS, as he takes his OWN private jet to Milan..for new underware, as he has worn all 100 sets he has, in the last 100 days OR LESS..

The bastard has to much money. And should LOWER his WAGES, and hire MORE PEOPLE, or give the ones he has a RAISE.

#23 I see your reality distortion has kicked in to protect your insanity. He did say that USPS was bad and that’s why the private sector was able to compete with it.

#26 BTW, keep rationalizing yout boss’ mistake.

#28 Reminds us how USPS treats trash mail? Dos it stop it in any way? NOT!

The only times I’ve lost anything on the mail (twice) was because of the USPS. With no way of making any complaints about it.

Just like the Obama’s socialized medicni will work. Lost patients, wrong procedures performed on patients and no one to complain to.

#32 I don’t use the mail for that. We live quite close. But for Christmas cards and things like that, I’ve been using e-cards for years already

#31 — Obama didn’t say the USPS was bad. He said USPS was the company having problems competing. It is all there in the context of his statements.

#27 — more oversight and regulation would mean more government employees to make sure the regulations are upheld. Would you like your taxes raised to pay for those employees?

As for the people yelling they don’t like socialism, why aren’t you fighting to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Dept. Of Education, Federal Law Enforcement agencies and other government programs? Is it that some kinds of socialism is OK but not others?

Heh, heh. Pedro—I almost warned you not to evade the question. I’m sure you saw it but decided to jump in nonetheless.

I do assume you are referring to something other than the video clip starting this thread? How can you hear anything other than Obama using the words of his critics to mock this lame argument? Its not very difficult to see.

Plus—-#34–joaoPT posted a most important contextual summary I haven’t seen recently enough to remember: “The private sector is tendentiously Exclusive, while the Public sector should be Inclusive” ==== very well said.

Pedro: the USPS delivers letters at 44 cents plus whatever subsidies they get. Fed Ex does the same job for $5.00. Saying one is efficient and competitive can only be concluded by those thinking sending email answers a question about which mail service is used for 99% of the traffic.

44 cents vs $5.00
99% vs 01%.

There is a “place” for each. Problem is the 1% is denying the INCLUSIONARY benefits of needed healthcare to us 99%.

>> pedro said, on August 15th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
>> #4 But your leader said USPS is a failure compared to the private carriers. What gives!

Obama didn’t use the word failure!

(Why do conservatives constantly have to lie to make their points?)

I, myself, prefer the USPS. Because of my job, I have mailed thousands and thousands of items. The USPS is WAY cheaper yet I can’t tell any difference in quality of service.

But, if YOU want to spend $5 (or whatever) to send your letter with FedEx instead of $0.44 with USPS, _YOU HAVE THAT OPTION_.

When it comes to health care, the conservatives overthrow the government before letting the public have that kind of option.

If the USPS constantly loses mail, as conservatives claim, how did NetFlix ever successfully build a business model on it?

I’ve gotten 2 to 3 DVDs a week for two years and I think _one_ DVD has been late by one day — and that’s counting both directions. None have been lost.

(Credit card companies and Amazon don’t seem reluctant to send me stuff either and I always get it.)

I’m not saying that the USPS doesn’t lose mail — but for me it’s been rare or maybe never. (because of my work, I’ve sent _a lot_.)

It’s weird that CONSERVATIVES are having their mail lost all the time but my mail is fantastically reliable.

This may be another case where conservatives are lying their fool heads off.

GregAllen, I’ve also used the USPS a lot. I haven’t had anything lost in years, but then I stopped using it for anything important,because they lost2 things several years ago. One CD arrived months late shredded. And the delivery confirmation that I got said nothing more than I dropped it off at the Post Office.

Then another time I shipped a priority mail package and it arrived 23 days later. That was probably out of 50 items shipped.

I am really surprised that Obama said this. One thing I have learned is that people will go to great lengths when they are really trying to prove their point – even say things that go against their main points when they are trying to prove a sub-sub-point. I have seen this time and time again.

Considering the USPS in the debate about the potential for government being able to successful control health care costs is an interesting one. I think the USPS actually extremely efficient for a government agency. The details are in what ‘efficient’ means. What the USPS is really lacking in is being able to break even and deliver good service.
What they do well is provide delivery at a low cost and process a huge amount of pieces per office every week. They are probably one of the only government agencies that actually keeps the employees busy. But their cost structure and resource allocation prevent them from capitalizing on their efficiencies and no matter how much they raise prices, they still lose money.

When I go to the post office, the average wait time is over 30 minutes. No private company could stay in business if they offered service like this. It does no good if the public option has an agency that is efficient in terms of cost per transaction and throughput, but ends up still losing money because of mismanagement and the inability to make tough cuts AND delivers an end user experience so abysmal that people want to go somewhere else and pay more to avoid dealing with them.

>> aslightlycrankygeek
>> When I go to the post office, the average wait time is over 30 minutes.

Is this another conservative lie? (I’ll concede that maybe you go once-a-year at Christmas)

I ask because this is not my experience.

I’d guess that 30 minutes is the LONGEST I wait in the post office, during a Christmas rush. (I’ll admit that it SEEMED like 3 hours.)

Are you truthfully claiming that you sometimes wait there one or two hours to average-out the sometimes two or five minute waits?

In my experience, the lines at the post office are that same as “for profit” lines at Walmart or where ever.

If I hit it at the slow times, there may be a couple people in front of me, if I hit the rush times it can be much longer.

When I went to FedEx recently, after having to driven MUCH further than two local post office branches, there where several customers milling around and nobody at the counter. Finally, a clerk meandered in and S L L O O W W L L Y Y helped us. It felt like I stood there three hours. (but, honestly, it was probably 15 minutes.)

Do you HONESTLY believe that if FedEx or Walmart bought the postal system, they would have a small army of clerks there, assuring that there are never any lines? My guess is that they would do just like Walmart … as soon as the lines start getting reasonable, they close lanes to maximize profits. They’d be derelict in their corporate responsibilities to NOT have as long a line as the customers will tolerate.

#47 GregAllen,

Again, it totally depends on the post office. In college there were times where I could walk into the post office and have no wait, and the longest wait I saw was about 15 minutes. Other post offices in my city have low waits, but the ones near me have waits between 10 and 45 minutes, and it is usually near the higher end.

I am sure for you everything in life can be explained by conservatives lying, but statements like that just make yourself look like you cannot see reality through your own prejudices. I am a libertarian and my conservative friends do not agree with me when I complain about the post office. I also think they contribute my lost letters to me misplacing them, but I do not then make the leap that all conservatives love the post office.

aslightlycrankygeek #45

Well, what you describe for the USPS is on par as the service provided by many a public-directed healthcare. Specially in the third world.

#46 Watch the video, is there. Watch the part where the likes of you are snickering when Obama said the private sector was doing better than the USPS. And since I know your reality distortion will prevention from actually hearing it, watch it at least 5 times before getting back to me.

#47 your wish to leave your leader looking good is showing. Do not stress yourself too much in the effort.

#48 Be kind with him, he doesn’t go out much.

#26
Actually, the majority of public schools at the elementary through HS level are awful. If having everyone educated is the goal, then vouchers would be a better way. Government in general works best when it sets standards rather than try to directly implement or manage standards.

So, if public schools is your example, it is more of an argument for private insurance.

> Should we also have private cops
> , and private courts, to take
> the load off the taxpayer paid
> Law Enforcement system?

We do; they are called private investigators and private security firms and if you want any crime other than a felony to actually be investigated your only recourse is to do it yourself or hire a PI. Any cop will tell you that if your home is burglerized, your hope of ever seeing any of your stuff is pretty much zero.

Privitizing courts of course are silly. We want accuracy and justice from our court system over efficiency.

#34
> There’s a reason to have
a public sector, and there’s
> always opportunity to be
> taken by the Private sector.

That is a completely different argument than to claim that the PS is efficient. Arguing that it should be a public utility is fine but don’t claim it to be efficient. Health care cost coverage (HCCC) (which is really what the current bills are about, not Health Care) does not fit into the same category and is far more complicated and far more expensive than whether anyone should have access to mail letters.

For some of you idiots, that have brought this up..
THERE ARE/WERE REGULATIONS.
THERE WAS enough people to regulate them..

In the last 20 years..
Kick backs, payoffs, and Blatant NOT DOING THEIR JOB.
Cuts in government.
The corps POUNDING on the gov to drop regulations.
“we can regulate ourselves” “we compete on the market”
Lets look at this.
1 person controls 4 companies giving insurance.
He holds the cards.
The MAIN company has the best coverage and services.
Company 2 has good coverage and alittle cheaper.
company 3 has service, and is cheaper.
Company 4 is crap and contests everything, and is EVEN CHEAPER.

The person on top REGULATES prices, and pushes them up and down, as he wants EACH of his companies to gain or loose stock price, so that he can gain MONEY.
The person on top, OWNs the companies but doesnt RUN them, except to tell them what to do.
THINK about what this person could do.
He shows he is competitive.
He shows he has competition.
He shows he can make money.
AND when one company MAKES the money he shows the OTHER LOST..so he pays only a small amount in TAX. He made his money on the market, controlling his companies..
This is like playing CARDS in Vegas..DEALER wins 90% of the time.

#56
You are arguing a strawman by ignoring the entire picture of their efficiency. How well the PO delivers mail is not where you should be looking. Are they, as an organization, run cost effectively? Are they able to adapt to market changes quickly? Are they profitable? (Even non-profit organizations strive for profit. The only difference is that all profits are reinvested back into the organization for R&D, improve infrastructure etc.)

The answer is clearly no. They are perennially short of money and have been slow to adapt.

Of course, private businesses are going to leverage the PO because the government is artificially lowering the price and thus for individual businesses it is in their self-interest to take advantage of it. That does not mean that the overall economics of resource distribution works out evenly as the public bears the cost for an organization they use less every year.