Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarised by the comedian Bill Maher: “The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital.”
The election of Obama – a black man with an anti-conservative message – as a successor to George W. Bush has scrambled the core American right’s view of their country. In their gut, they saw the US as a white-skinned, right-wing nation forever shaped like Sarah Palin.
When this image was repudiated by a majority of Americans in a massive landslide, it simply didn’t compute. How could this have happened? How could the cry of “Drill, baby, drill” have been beaten by a supposedly big government black guy? So a streak that has always been there in the American right’s world-view – to deny reality, and argue against a demonic phantasm of their own creation – has swollen. Now it is all they can see.
Since Obama’s rise, the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown. [...] This tendency to simply deny inconvenient facts and invent a fantasy world isn’t new; it’s only becoming more heightened. It ran through the Bush years like a dash of bourbon in water. [...] But the ordinary Republican base believe this stuff. They are being tricked into opposing their own interests through false fears and invented demons.
Read the rest of the article for a lot more of a pretty clear description of how crazy all this looks to the rest of the world.
#54 Li
At least it will reduce our carbon footprint…
I don’t know, burning cities release a lot of CO2.
Oh, why can’t the fascist socialists just get along with the socialist fascists?
Posted by Uncle Dave “As a moderate, your Uncle Dave and others like me may not like (to be kind) some of the things Obama and the left are doing”, hee, haa,hee……
Uncle Dave is a raving Communist Fellow Traveler, too brain washed to know that he’s been pulled to Satan/Stalin orbit.. What NAZI Tyrannical trash Uncle Dave is, they are nothing but racist. All Uncle Dave sees is the color of a man’s skin. It’s the Demoncrats that continue to bring up the whore’s argument of race. Who gives a crap what color a communist is, I still don’t want to be trapped in the hell whole they are trying to create.
The only fantasy is that American’s what to have the Government standing over then saying who can live and who can die. Why didn’t congress restrict themselves to the same plan if it’s so good. Once a government, that’s National Debt paid, health care is established it’ll be a fast road towards only one legally allowed system. We know this is the goal, because if nothing else of Hillary’s own health care crap.
The Demoncrats are pissed that some Americans are actually becoming active in their politic and taking the same action that the Demoncrats advocate. And since they know that longer it takes force this upon the American people the more they are going learn and turn against their brain washed garbage. What ever happened to “Question Authority”. Well we’re Questioning Authority, which in the case of the slave holding Demoncrats is mostly a white/rich privileged class..
Whenever someone tries to bum rush a great deal pass the people, I’m reminded of a Used Car Salesman, the slim of humanity only sightly above life insurance salesmen. I hope the disgust and derision I hold all communist, ie. ‘Uncle Dave’ Stalin, has come through…………………………..
Whatever…………………..
Traaxx
# 60 Thomas
Oh it’s not ‘my system’.
I’m just saying they exist and are ‘socialist’.
People weren’t shouting hitler, communism, nazi etc – when any prior president was in power and they existed. And if health care reform is a socialist thing to do, then its just an extension of whats we already have.
Now you could argue that makes things better or worse. Personally I think we need health care reform. And I believe a government option / single-payer system.
I think it’s pretty clear – if we did have health care reform, that America wouldn’t be a fascist/communist/socialist/nazi state. I’m also pretty sure there wouldn’t be death panels chasing down and killing granny and the baby either.
Yet, that is the current discussion.
There’s a place for socialism, capitalism, conservatism, liberalism and so forth. Funnily enough they can even do co-exist. Yes, here in America. Ideally we’d be open minded enough to try and maximize our result by taking the best of each – instead of just demonizing.
#64 Traaxx
Oh dear. It’s yet another rant proving the original article was onto something.
Traaxx, are you for real, or are you just telling a joke I’m not getting?
Well, just woke up to Chris Matthews with the newsflash that Bushie Boy manipulated ((or did he only try to manipulate==I was still half asleep)) the Threat Level during the run up to his election.
I think we all knew that at the time?
Barney==where are you??? Not even a simple denial like DAD?
#51–DAD==Name one. All three if you really have them.
#56–Thomas==I aint dodging nothing. YOU dodge the clear statements in my post as if I did not give you jit and jot of REALITY. I know you have read Fusions multiple posts on the issue. The REALITY of my tough titties is all around you. I’m not going to argue with a dining room table about it.
Do I really think you retards have shit for brains?===Hurts to say, but not really.
Do you retards with shit for brains really think providing healthcare to all will make this country Socialist?===Yes, I think some of you are that stupid. Call me a budding Nazi.
The conservatives calling universal healthcare ‘fascist’ is like calling your mother a ‘fascist’ for making you share your toys. Grow up and share your toys. Universal health care works adequately in every other country and the citizens (mostly)love it.
#30, Dickhead Belligerent,
I have to go with the others, you are effen nuts. And a racist too.
Why do you hate America?
Uncle Dave clearly has the right to express his views but if he thinks he’s middle of the road he’s delusional. He might try matching his views with what independants think rather than what his friends think and see where that actually leaves him standing.Maybe 30% of Americans share his views.
#69 Let’s get this cleared up; the seniors are going to get it in the neck. Massive amounts of cold hard cash are going to be transfered to paying bills for younger citizens and non citizens. The math doesn’t add up any other way and that’s the only way to get even a fraction the savings Obama has been claiming. That would be in line with positions he and his friends have taken in the past. If the bills for those last three or four years are to high just pay out less money and let them make up the difference.
The other issue is you think the government loves you and will serve you well at a reasonible cost. Try taking a look and the finical condition of medicare, medicaid, and social security. The numbers all say all three programs can be expected to implod in the next five years even without another huge increase in spending.
I wouldn’t call the ultra Dems people fascists. As much as I hate fascists most fascists could do math and these people can’t. A little bit of Joe McCarthy maybe. If you can’t convince people vilify somebody.
They are socialist and bigger government is the answer to all our problems type people. They expect the God they don’t believe in to pay the bills or maybe Harry Potter to show up and wave his magic wand. They are spending like a teenager who stole their mother’s credit cards.
#65
No one is arguing against heath care reform in general. Claims to the contrary are a strawman argument.
We all want reform. The catch is in what people actually mean by “reform”. There are many types of reform of which a government managed health care plan is only one. Not all forms of reform are being branded as socialist. Facilitating competition amongst providers in different states would not be considered socialist. Having the government directly manage people’s health care would.
The socialist systems you mentioned are good arguments against the massive changes that the left is proposing.
#68
You appear to be arguing with yourself. You might consider sobering up before you post. There was a time when you actually provided poignant commentary. Did the medications finally get to you?
#56, Thomas,
You are claiming that the interstate commerce clause (I presume) has given the Federal government the authority to nationalize the health care industry but there is no case law precedent for this.
That is just a stupid comment. Almost every venture by the Federal Government has resulted in the Supreme Court upholding that under the “Commerce Clause”.
Gibbons v. Ogden (1824)
Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831)
Swift v. United States (1905)
Stafford v. Wallace (1922)
National Labor Relations Board v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation (1937)
Wickard v. Filburn, (1942)
Anderson v. Mt. Clemens Pottery Co. (1946)
Katzenbach v. McClung (1964)
Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States (1965)
Maryland v. Wirtz (1968)
Daniel v. Paul (1969)
Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority (1985)
Gonzales v. Raich (2005)
Then, if you really want to explore this a little further, try reading this article by Lawrence Tribe
Then the Supreme Court has ruled many times that Medicare is valid. I can picture no reason the Supreme Court would condone Medicare yet declare any other health care insurance plan unconstitutional.
McNARY, COMMISSIONER OF IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION, et al. v. HAITIAN REFUGEE CENTER, INC., et al (1991)
Fisher v United States (2000)
SHALALA V. ILLINOIS COUNCIL ON LONGTERM CARE, INC. (2000)
While these cases do not deal with the question of whether or not Medicare is “Constitutional”, they operate upon that assumption.
#72, Thomas,
Not all forms of reform are being branded as socialist. Facilitating competition amongst providers in different states would not be considered socialist.
So what would have to be done to “facilitate” competition among providers? Are certain Health Insurance companies not allowed to operate in certain states?
The problem isn’t the competition, it is the larger corporations swallowing the smaller companies.
I’ll put this one under the bullshit category as a reform.
The “opposition” has not come up with any meaningful reform though. I’ve heard some cry about tort reform as if hurting those already injured by malpractice is something to be encouraged. Cut taxes is another buggaboo, but then I’ll wonder how we’ll pay for anything.
I don’t mind a Brit critiquing the USA as long as he doesn’t mind me calling him on a few things about his sad country. If you dish it out, you should be able to take it.
1. Your food is horrible.
2. Jonathan Ross. Seriously, is this the best you guys can do? I can’t understand a damn word he says. Give him subtitles! At least I can understand Graham Norton. And he’s funny!
3. The Brits follow their government like cheerful lemmings toward the precipice. Tally ho old chap!
4. Police state much? Orwell was right. A nation that’s the cast of Big Brother.
5. For a country that prides itself on National Health, they sure have awful teeth. It must be the vicious inbreeding.
6. Soccer…excuse me, “Footie”, sucks. It’s a crap sport that’s almost as boring as Cricket.
Alright, so much for my rant. What do you Brits do right?
1. Bulldogs. How can you not love Bulldogs?
2. Keeley Hazell is hot.
3. Doctor Who is one of the best shows on TV.
That is all.
PS: Prince Charles creeps me out.
#71 Deowll
Clearly there are serious questions over how the Obama administration is implementing this health care, but most of the objections coming from conservatives are pure whacko scaremongering based on the usual cocktail of prejudice, ignorance and tight assedness (needs to be a word for this). There seems to be no honest intelligent, or even intelligible, debate.
It also seem strange to me that people are willing to put their health needs in the hands of corporations, who have proved their untrustworthiness and their singularity of purpose (profit), over a publicly elected government.
#71–do-ill==Uncle Dave is a moderate. I wouldn’t confuse being so indecisive that your default position is to be an independent. Thats a different continuum. Now, I have seen our good Uncle be “wrong” on a few technical points, but moderate in doing so.
Maybe only 30% of Americans are moderate. I’ve often hear America is 1/3 left, 1/3 right, and 1/3 undecided. What this all demonstrates mostly is lack of definition on an issue that people just throw numbers at rather than accurately measure.
In fact, people are a mix. I am a social liberal and an economic conservative. I think both parties are corrupt. Does that make me a moderate in that my polar extremes are averaged out???
Labels===for idiots only. Like John C who wants to pre-qualify opinions by hanging Country of Origin Labels as part of his evaluation. Done mostly for humor, but still telling.
Thomas==trumped again. You are very consistent. Very calm and reasonable “sounding” in your approach, but uniformily completely vacant in substance. Kinda unusual actually. I’m sure you’ll post again in a few days on these same issues just as if today never happened.=====Groundhog Thomas. Don’t worry, some day you’ll get the girl, but only if you stop being who you are today, and grow as a person.
# 16 Jetfire:
“…Nowhere does the Constitution say that the Government is to supply health care….”
Nowhere does the Constitution say that the Government is to build roads either, but I don’t see the Right complaining about that.
– - – - -
# 36 Phydeau:
“He[Obama]’s a cautious middle-of-the-roader in most aspects, but Republicans have gone so far off the rails that he looks like a radical leftist to you.”
Yes, there are many who call both Eisenhower and Nixon socialists and all those other bad names they keep calling us.
Such as…
To sum up, we’re:
Leftists
Nazis
Socialists
Marxist Liberal Fascists
Sneering Liberal Morons
Consumed with arrogance, hubris, a thirst for revenge, and elitist entitlement
Brownshirts
Idiots
Lapdogs
Racists
Bozos
Stupid
Sub-literate
Clueless tree-hugging, economical ignorant, elitists
That’s not even halfway through the comments, and they complain about adhominem?
– - – - -
# 39 Thomas:
‘ “Massive” landslide? What election was that? It certainly wasn’t the Presidential election.’
Final vote: 365 – 173. That’s more than two to one.
“…Federated system like the US…”
Nice fantasy, but the U.S. hasn’t been a loose federation in at least 140 years. It’s a country now and has been your whole life and will be after we’re all gone.
Here’s more:
raving Communist Fellow Travelers
brain washed
NAZI Tyrannical trash
racist
slave holding Demoncrats
mostly a white/rich privileged class
Unfortunately, there are quite a few that go in the other direction as well. Tsk tsk. Let’s all try to do better, shall we?
For what it’s worth, while I called myself a moderate, that’s probably the wrong word. I don’t know what the right word is for someone who agrees with some of the Democrat’s policies and some of the Republican’s. I also wholly reject many of the Democrat’s policies and the same for many of the Republican’s.
And I loath incompetent fools like Bush & Co. were.
For business, I’m a devout capitalist who believes there need to be regulations to keep companies from straying into harming people and the planet. Think food testing, pollution controls, etc.
For personal, I’m ultra liberal which is pretty much the same as libertarian in government keep out. No drug, sex, religious (prayer in schools, etc) and other ‘morality’ laws except to protect against harm to another (drunk driving, rape, etc).
Fed government generally: Military (limited — no neocon fantasies), foreign affairs (no toppling governments to help business buddies, however), adjudicate between states, major projects that are too big for the states (interstate roads construction in the 50′s, space program, etc.) and mutually agreed upon other activities. That’s it.
Government at all levels should, as an agent of a modern society, help people who can’t help themselves until they can. Compassion plus getting people back to being productive members of society. Freeloaders (including investment bankers bonuses) — fuck ‘em.
I could go on with a lot more, but my point is since I’m drawing from both sides I figure that puts me somewhere in the middle.