President Obama gave his health care speech to Congress tonight. Did you see it? If not, read it here. What do you think? Agree or disagree with his assessment of the problems? Agree or disagree with his plan? Which side are you on: free government run health care for all or survival of the wealthiest? Discuss!
Based on people’s reactions here, you would think it actually is an emotional issue. If healthcare is a “right” (a statement I believe both sides of this debate are stating–at least in public,) then why is it being stalled? Because it needs to be done right? LOL! It’s money, people. You can form any committee or group or whatever you want and go on the news and get some PR and even a little attention at the national level (equating to a pat on the head and saying, “aw that’s cute” at the govt. level,) but it’s the money that will give you clout. Not ideas, even if they save billions of dollars to some overworked citizen demographic. Back that with a few billions in contributions and it gets a place on the docket.
Think that’s not how it works? Just ask Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big Oil, Big Unions, Big anything and look at the contributions to our “leaders” by each of these organizations. Corporations are in the game of protecting their own interests, not the people’s. And we continue to let them provide more sway politically than ANY group of citizens in this country.
Really, believing it’s ideas that change anything in this country (or any other for that matter) and not money is beyond ignorant.
As a few people here have said (ie.e DA), our current health care system is not driven or maintained by the free market, or let’s call it Austrian economics for those who dislike the use of the term “free market”. What we essentially have is price fixing by big insurance and pharmaceutical companies.
There is no competition in health care, thereby limiting the average American to whatever coverage their company is lucky enough to get, really expensive coverage if they don’t get coverage from an employer and have to pay themselves, or no coverage at all. Competition drives down prices, this is a proven fact.
Here’s a question: should we even need insurance for health care? If we get tax breaks that we can invest/save, we could use that money for paying our medical bills. Or not. It’s up to the individual to decide how responsible they wish to be. Why put this money in the pockets of some insurance company? I know why politicians prefer we put money in the hands of insurance companies, but why would the average American?
I understand what our current administration is trying to do, and regardless of how good their intentions are, it is not an affordable option for our country.
#81, You bring up a couple of good points.
Consider this: If Big X is really controlling the government (I firmly believe it is), then why would anybody want to give them control of even more money? You aren’t going to keep them out of the decision making process so why even tempt them?
Note: Healthcare is not a right. You have a right to pursue it, just like you have a right to pursue a home, car, fishing boat, or food, if any of them will make you happy.
In 1916, a minister and outspoken advocate for liberty, William J. H. Boetcker, published a pamphlet entitled The Ten Cannots:
– You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
– You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
– You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
– You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
– You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.
– You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
– You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
– You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
– You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
– You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.
Fact is, the central government cannot give to anybody what it does not first take from somebody else.
And that includes healthcare.
I agree with much of what you say, Liberty. However, there have also been examples of the opposite scenarios not working either. Remember “trickle down economics?” It seems that lifting up the rich doesn’t help the poor either. Just an example. That’s not to say that I agree with stripping the rich to feed the poor.
I agree with changing current allocation schemes. I’m not an economist nor do I have access to all the bankrolls of our leaders and govt employees, so I am not qualified to plan out this allocation. All I can do is see what reallocations are thrown at me in a plan and see if I disagree–try to throw some of my pittance of a paycheck at someone who promises to take my opinion into account, and basically hope in one hand while…well you know the rest.
“Consider this: If Big X is really controlling the government (I firmly believe it is), then why would anybody want to give them control of even more money? You aren’t going to keep them out of the decision making process so why even tempt them?”
A valid point based on a single Big X controlling the govt. But that’s where the real competition is–between Big X, Big Y, Big Z whom all have different wishes in what the outcome of this and any other debate ends up producing. In reality, it is extremely difficult to pin the lobby effect on 1 sector–at least 2 conflicting sectors are always funding the same leader. So what do you do? If you support the political agenda, you support at least 1 lobby. If you purchase goods from the sector that’s lobbying, you support the political agenda. As a lowly citizen, it’s hard to get around this. You can always hope for finance reform.
Re: Healthcare as a right.
This is the moral issue everyone gets tied up in. Just like Bush’s whole liberate the people under Sadaam schpeel when we went to Iraq. This is where you and I have very different ideas. I feel health care in the US is a right to our citizens who pay taxes like public education and potable water. Nothing fancy, just basic care–if not for all citizens at least for all minors. In reality that right is already in place since hospitals cannot turn away anyone who comes to their ER. That is where one of our biggest expenses in health care come from–unpaid ER expenses. The way I see it, by requiring insurance among all citizens, in theory this will alleviate some of these issues. However, it’s not a complete approach. Malpractice issues are still a major secondary health care expense in the whole $72.3 billion/year cost-hole. So is pharmaceutical and medical device markup. (I always think it’s funny when you look at a book or other product and see the US price and the Canada price–the Canada price is always more expensive–except for drugs where the opposite is conveniently true.) Here’s where the lobbying gets everything all messed up.
In reality, I don’t see this being fixed by this plan as it is (what Big Z and Big W are lobbying for.) I’m waiting to see what changes in the plan. I do however see things getting far worse for middle class families if everything stays the same (which is what Big X, Big Y, etc are lobbying for.)
I am so disgusted with how this is playing out in the media. Hate/fear/racism/lie-mongering is classic politics, but people just don’t see it. Impartial reporting is dead.
#85, I feel health care in the US is a right to our citizens who pay taxes like public education and potable water.
Why? I am curious where this idea comes from?
And where does it stop? Houses, cars, guns, Big Screen TVs, where?
If you truly feel that way, then talk to your State. It is not the responsibility of the Federal Government to give you anything. The Federal Government’s job is to protect your Rights from encroachment.
Outstanding address! finally, a kernel of truth was spoken at a Long Legged MacDaddy Fest and in politics at large..
..Which was when the congressman yelled out “You Lie”
-pin a medal on that man!
Priceless!
-s
Wow, I have to congratulate most of the commentators on this page. You really sound like a bunch of professional politicians. Way to go!!!!!!
#85 JC Said,
“That is where one of our biggest expenses in health care come from–unpaid ER expenses.”
You nailed that one. Engine Company 10 in Washington handled more than 6,500 calls last year about 40% medical.
The New York Times
http://tinyurl.com/pz6msk
From the Library of Congress website:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
“Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”
– - – - -
# 49 pedro:
“Then what threw Iceland into their economic collapse, socialized medicine?”
No, over-investment in the 30x (or more) leveraged derivative products of the U.S.’s de-regulated (repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc., etc., etc.), overheated financial industry. In short, they bought too much debt packaged as assets; they bought their own bubble and, as all bubbles do, it popped, at the same time as or just before ours did.
Of course, the alternative leaves him in a tough position:
“Some say we will cover illegal immigrants. They insist the legislation must include a provision requiring patients to demonstrate they are here legally. (Joe Wilson interrupts to yell, “YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH!”) But I think that is unnecessary; our laws are currently effective enough at ensuring illegal immigrants do not end up collecting benefits they are not entitled to.”
They rejected amendments to tighten verification.
86,
It is easy to try and escalate the issue by calling health care a luxury. Dick.
#92
Some health care IS a luxury. Boob jobs and quite a bit of other plastic surgery comes to mind.
93,
Yes, of course this debate is only about elective medical procedures. At least try and be good at being disingenuous.
#94
If anyone is being disingenuous, it is the people throwing out the statement that “health care is a right.” No, not all health care is a right. Not all health care cost coverage is a right either.
The taxpayers should not be obligated to help pay for the health care costs of someone that willfully chooses a high risk lifestyle for example or wants frivolous elective surgery.
The point here is that the debate in question is actually about three different topics: the providing of health care, health care costs and health care cost coverage.