President Obama gave his health care speech to Congress tonight. Did you see it? If not, read it here. What do you think? Agree or disagree with his assessment of the problems? Agree or disagree with his plan? Which side are you on: free government run health care for all or survival of the wealthiest? Discuss!
#60, Benjamin
Why are you so worried about that old piece of paper, and not about providing free health care to everyone?
Feeling so tired of people complaining about having their money stolen and about following their rights, and about the constitution.
I thought it was a good speech. It could have been better.
One thing that I sincerely hope is that mental health issues are covered in any healthcare bill out there.
Maybe then, some people here would be compelled to get a check up from the neck up. Gods know, they need it.
#60 “Where does the constitution prohibit social programs, just curious.””
We have a thing called the 10Th Amendment:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
Social programs are not a power spelled out in the Constitution. So it’s for the states.
Federal Highways were built to move troops and tanks around. That’s how they were original built.
Poor Benji==only a dupe, an idiot, a high schooler, a first year foreigner, a zealot, a stooge, or a propagandist uses the CONSTITUTION standing alone to analyse constitutional issues. That is only the beginning point and NEVER the ending point. People limiting their analysis, readings, understandings, postings to just the CONSTITUTIONS really are maroons.
You HAVE TO add the Supreme Court Cases that have interpreted the Constitution. Once you do that you realize the 10th Amendment has become almost irrelevant and what you need to understand is the Commerce Clause.
You won’t do it because being an idiot is so much more comforting.
So, as Bobo advises, continue to be misdirected.
Ha, ha. Jetfire========you know. Or, maybe you don’t.
Maroon.
Bottom line:
Will the US join the 20th century?
#65 Yes I know about the Commerce Clause and it’s abuse. I also know that some Founding Fathers didn’t want it in there because they feared it would be used as an end run around the limit of power on the Fed. Looks like their fears have come true.
I also know about FDR’s attempt at “Court-packing Plan” when the Supreme Court actually upheld the Constitution.
Food, water and shelter from the elements have far greater immediate importance to most people than whatever services doctors provide. I’d think that granting everybody “free” food and housing would be the priority for the “government is my provider” crowd.
For those stating that Healthcare is outside of the Federal Gov’t scope due to the 10th amendment. I have a very simple question to ask…
“If the Federal Gov’t can’t do it and the states have failed to address it… Who will?”
I’m all for state’s rights. However with that stated the STATES NEED TO STAND UP AND DO THEIR #$%^&Y JOBS. And it is their FAILURE TO DO THEIR JOBS that have envoked the federal gov’t to come in.
So you can continue to whine about “this should be done at the state level”, but frankly I’m tired of waiting for states to decide it is an important issue.
- Ben
Sea Lawyer! Bite your tongue. Have you SEEN government-sponsored housing? Have you EATEN government surplus cheese?
#67–jetfire==so, yes you do understand CONSTITUTIONAL analysis.
Why do you persist in posting as if you have no f*cking clue about it then?
You do a very evil thing posting what you know to be completely defective. You have naive Benji’s believing they have a live issue when all they have is a stupid stick they keep hitting themselves with. Very evil when we don’t even have universal health care coverage. Yes, very evil.
In fact, by ignoring what you know to be the truth, you DISHONOR the CONSTITUTION.
Jetfire==why do you hate America?
#14, Independent of the morality of insurance company decisions I still fail to see how the following will not increase costs: reject people for pre-existing conditions, drop people who get sick, or limit out of pocket expenses. All these mandates to an insurance company will increase my cost as a purchaser of their product.
What will happen if this passes is it will become illegal for insurance companies to drop people. That will raise the price.
To keep the prices down, they will limit what they pay doctors. This will bring the quality of healthcare down.
But that’s ok. At least everyone will be covered. Right? Right?
#21, FTW
#24, OK, so, I suppose you consider Medicare unconstitutional.
Yes.
Public Schools? Highways.
Only if provided by the States and not the Federal Government.
Where does the constitution prohibit social programs, just curious.
The 10th Amendment prohibits it by not authorizing it directly.
#32, unregulated free market has got America into the dire financial situation it is now.
If you consider 330,000 pages of government regulations “unregulated” then you are correct.
#69, A few states have tried it already and it failed. Look at Hawaii’s failed social healthcare system. They shut it down in less than one year because it went bankrupt. Luckily, they didn’t have the power to print more money to keep it afloat.
Now multiply that by 57, er I mean 50, states.
The problem with the healthcare system is the 330,000 pages of federal regulations. It is near impossible to get anything done without violating some regulation. So doctor’s have to hire teams of people whose only purpose is to deal with the government regulations.
And you want to create another agency without fixing that first?
Give me a break, please.
#72–LIEBERTARIAN===perhaps the term provides too much respect. How about just LIAR!!!
Yes, 330,000 pages of regulation–none of them addressing investment banking relations. Those laws were repealed. Bet you were waving the flag of LIEBERTY when those pages of regulation were taken off the books.
LIEBERTARIAN–good for a laugh, if your aim is to be irrelevant.
Moral issue? Probably. I mean, it says something when you’re supposed to be the superpower of the world, and you basically say if you’re diagnosed with cancer or need a heart transplant (and the $400K-600K to pay for it despite being “covered” by your insurance)–you’re going to end up destitute. It’s funny so many people are saying, “it’s fine the way it is.” Have these people ever needed an organ transplant or massive chemotherapy and radiation? Have they seen just what an insurance company does in these cases? Bankruptcy is inevitable for so many of these people, because insurance companies will either 1) fully deny coverage based on whatever they can conjure up, or 2) only provide partial coverage (in which case, the patient is still footed with 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars to pay.)
This is how it works. If you’re middle class and buy your insurance and some horrible disease befalls you or a member of your family, you quickly and smoothly get shoved down into the poor class. Let’s see if people’s opinions change when this happens to them, assuming there’s no emergency trust fund, tax windfall, or stock boon to pay for their medical expenses. But you know what? Even if there was a way for someone to pay for all of this without going bankrupt, why should they have to when they are paying for coverage from an insurance company? You’re essentially paying for the promise of service you are not receiving unless it’s either cheap or you have a good lawyer.
Re: Free market
In reality, it only exists at the small business level. Once you get into megacorporations that gobble each other up, things change. Sure there’s still competition, but not much–moreso a keeping of the status quo. It’s a corporation’s worst nightmare to start a price war from aggressive competition. That 2% market share just isn’t worth the price cuts or added service they would have to provide. More often than not you end up having a sort of agreement to keep things a certain way at a certain price. Some might call this collusion or an oligarchy. It is unfortunately the way things work in this country and many others.
#74, Healthcare
Irrelevant are the emotions behind the cause. It is not supported in the Constitution.
If people don’t like that, they can form an Amendment Committee and get it changed.
Or they can move to one of the other industrialized nations that have it. I mean, seriously, if the other countries are so much better than us, why the hell aren’t more people emigrating?
Current medical regulations account for 330,000 pages. The problem we are in is because of the federal government. Asking them for more help is the definition of insanity.
After 150 speeches, it’s about time Obama starts giving some specifics on the plan.
How will the government find savings to pay for the plan? Specifically, not vague generalities.
He was talking about CBO numbers, and said he would veto any plan that added to the deficit. So already he is lying.
#76 Obviously, you didn’t hear about the death panel idea. Get with it.
He said there were 30 million Americans without health care. But all the posters on this blog keep saying 47 million. So without passing a bill, Obama has taken 17 million off the rolls.
#79, Wow, that’s about how many are unemployed.
I wonder if there is a connection . . .