STONY BROOK, N.Y. (CBS) ―They’re upset over an ultimatum from the health department. Workers are being told to either get the swine flu vaccine or lose their jobs.
New York is the first state in the country to mandate flu vaccinations for its health care workers. The first doses of swine flu vaccine will be available beginning next week. Much of it is reserved for state health care workers, but there is growing opposition to required innoculations.
Health care workers in Hauppauge screamed “No forced shots!” as they rallied Tuesday against the state regulation requiring them to roll up their sleeves. “I don’t even tend to the sick. I am in the nutrition field. They are telling me I must get the shot because I work in a health clinic setting,” said Paula Small, a Women, Infants and Children health care worker. Small said she will refuse, worried the vaccine is untested and unproven, leaving her vulnerable. In 1976, there were some deaths associated with a swine flu vaccination.
Registered nurse Frank Mannino, 50, was also angry. He said the state regulation violates his personal freedom and civil rights. “And now I will lose my job if I don’t take the regular flu shot or the swine flu shot.” When asked if he’s willing to lose his job, Mannino said, “Absolutely. I will not take it, will not be forced. This is still America.”
The protest also shook Albany Tuesday. Hundreds of demonstrators demanded freedom of choice. After all, as health care professionals they argue they’re already constantly washing their hands and aren’t likely to transmit or contract the flu.
This doesn’t exactly instill confidence in the general public does it?
I’m being serious here. Why don’t the users that agree with this on this site volunteer? I mean you AGREE with this so now it’s your chance to prove what you’re saying. Sign up and do us all a favor.
#21–Theone==I don’t get it. How does ME getting my yearly vaccine prove that those who don’t are idiots?
I’d say its the other way around. If its not a job requirement, then why don’t you prove what you are saying and don’t get any vaccines/anti-virals, medicine in general, snake bite antidote, ie==the whole panoply of modern day science.
Viggo,
I hope you’re not in the medical profession.
Viggo said, on September 30th, 2009 at 9:47 am
“Many diseases would be non-existent except we continue to inject small amounts into people each year to ward off the very disease we’re trying to protect ourselves against.”
Isn’t that what a vaccine is, Viggo? It works for things like polio, smallpox, and whooping cough, though not so much for flu.
#21 – Theone,
Please see my comment number 13 in response to Benjamin.
So scientist bobbo, please explain the difference between these two things scenerios:
1.) You get injected with a small amount of the virus (a vaccine) and your body builds up immunities against the virus.
2.) Someone coughs on you a small amount of the virus and your body builds up immunities against the virus.
For everyone’s information, what do they do to make sure the vaccine doesn’t give you the disease?
I’ll be the first to admit I’m paranoid. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have good reason to be. I’m just gonna let folks I don’t know shoot me up with some unknown crap because they tell me its for my own good? Are you insane? People have a long history of negligence and bad intent and I WILL not allow them to randomly shoot stuff into my body. I will shoot first. I just got rid of the last crap that I exposed my body to and I don’t plan to do it again if I can help it. I haven’t had a flu shot in thirty years and it’ll be that much longer before I do it again. Every year people catch a flu bug and they USUALLY get over it. You can’t prove to me that folks who get a flu shot get sick less than those that don’t. Sure I get a mild case of the flu once or twice a year and if they are honest, most folks do. It kills far fewer people than driving a car.
Second point: Just because a person is vaccinated does NOT MEAN THEY CAN’T TRANSMIT IT! Vaccinated people are resistant to the virus not immune to exposure. If you think the vaccine is a magic bullet then by all means take it for yourself and you won’t need to worry about those who don’t. And quit whining. Life is dangerous and science can’t change that. Life wouldn’t be worth living if it did. For all those who think they have a right to dictate my actions, I will use as much force as required to change your mind if you get near me. I was taught all my life the value of a free nation and I will spend the rest of it defending that.
By the way, Obama needs to be the first one to get the flu shot, followed by Congress, and ACORN, those Fred Phelp’s Westboro Baptist Church people, and Keith Olbermann too. If the vaccine has adverse reactions, then at least the vaccine works to prevent stupidity. If it works as designed then I apologize to everyone that those people I just mentioned are now immune to the H1N1 virus.
Last estimate I heard was an additional 90K dead this year from swine flu. What I can’t find is any estimate at all as to how many would die if no vaccine at all was taken by the population.
It seems to me that year after year the nations that do not vaccinate (India? China? Zimbabwe?) should be reporting huge death tolls, but I haven’t heard anything like that. Either all countries have effective vaccination programs, or it doesn’t make any difference “really,” or – - – or – - – what?
Anybody know the numbers?
#26 – Benjamin,
You really don’t understand vaccines at all.
1) Vaccines contain either dead or weakened versions of the virus. This is why they are vaccines, not germ warfare.
2) When someone coughs on you, the virus is full strength.
Get the difference? Please, do a little research before posting on a topic about which you know less than nothing.
#26–Benji==I’m sorry. Didn’t catch your call out until Scotts post made me go back. I’m tending to skip over your posts as they too often aren’t worth reading. Your simple minded ignorance isn’t up to a conversation.
Now, I admire the way you haven’t feigned insult or gone catatonic over my own childish ways but “really”==just look at yourself.
First you post that vaccines don’t work, and then you ask for information on how they work. Ever hear the expression about putting the cart before the horse? You see, the cart has to be put IN FRONT of the horse in order to pull it, doesn’t work the other way around.
You have to study an issue IN FRONT of forming an opinion, it doesn’t work the other way around.
In this age of google, missing such basics is really an embarrassment. Learn to use google. Its your friend.
Lets see what the wiki has to say? – - – - – - – - – -Yep==says what Scott said with more words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccines.
Its “Science” Benji. Science. If you aren’t a man of science, how do you define your relationship to the universe?
# 31 bobbo, are we of science or devo said, on September 30th, 2009 at 11:47 am
“First you post that vaccines don’t work, and then you ask for information on how they work.”
I actually said flu shots don’t work because by the next year the virus has mutated. Polio, smallpox, and whooping cough don’t seem to do that because you don’t need a new vaccine for the shot every year. Also these vaccines had years of clinical tests that show their effectiveness. The H1N1 vaccine does not have this background.
“In this age of google, missing such basics is really an embarrassment. Learn to use google. Its your friend.”
Probably should googled or checked Wikipedia. It is just slightly different then I thought. The wikipedia article did mention the themerisol controversy.
“Its ‘Science’ Benji. Science. If you aren’t a man of science, how do you define your relationship to the universe?”
Science is asking questions about how the universe works and finding answers to those questions.
#32–There you go Benjamin==again, you “could have” gotten all pissy with my condescending attitude, but you didn’t go there. Thats a good attitude.
Keep reading. The flu virus does mutate all the time. THAT means the original virus and the new virus are both in the environment. You have protection against the older virus either by vaccine or by exposure. Each “new” virus does not have years of testing, its brand new—except “parts” of each virus are understood in varying degrees. Thats why its called H1N1 and there are loads of letters and numbers to describe the different known factors. Its how science is staying only a little bit behind the virus and why the swine flu is of concern to those who have spent their lives fighting the little beastie. It very much resembles in structure and early history the 1918 Epidemic that killed millions. As with that epidemic, once you get sick, the vaccine won’t cure you. You get dead with this illness, or thats the fear if it mutates again.
So–this issue really does require JUDGEMENT based on KNOWLEDGE. If you don’t have both, take the vaccine. Its the kind of faith you should believe in. But always be ready to question as I have in Post #29.
Its simply not enough to identify the “dangers” of vaccines. Until you balance that risk off against the risk of not vaccinating, you have only looked at part of the equation. Silly to do that.
#32 – Benjamin,
What? No response to the fact that you can’t tell a full strength viral infection from a weakened or dead virus that increases your immune response to the real thing? Oh well. So much for your basic knowledge of medical science. Until you figure out this most basic fact of vaccinations, I’d suggest that you likely have nothing to add to this conversation.
@Benjamin – #26
The difference is that one is a dead virus cable of provoking an immune response and one is a live virus cable of provoking an immune response AND causing disease.
The immune system generates antibodies and trains white blood cells based on the shell of the virus. The problem with the flu is that the shell and genetic material in it are highly variable and mutate quickly.
I believe in science. I believe vaccinations work. I don’t trust pharmaceutical companies. Aye, and there is the rub.
#36–Improb==and yet all the science of vaccinations is done by/thru the instrumentality of the pharmaceutical companies. No need at all to “trust” except in the track record of vaccinated vs not vaccinated. Pharm Co being on both sides of the equation, drops out.
I asked Bobbo and he provided a link that discribed it better than you. My initial thought was they somehow removed the RNA strand from the protein shell of the virus which would cause the immune system to recognize the virus when the real one came, but not allow the virus to reproduce. After reading the article, that is not exactly how it is done. They heat it up and kill it and that is were they get the vaccine.
I was just confused about the mechanism.
Improbus said, on September 30th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@Benjamin – #26
The difference is that one is a dead virus cable of provoking an immune response and one is a live virus cable of provoking an immune response AND causing disease.
The immune system generates antibodies and trains white blood cells based on the shell of the virus. The problem with the flu is that the shell and genetic material in it are highly variable and mutate quickly.
Scott and Bobbo- Men of science and all knowing trustees of all things vaccine related. Please explain to me how Baxter Pharmaceutical “accidently” shipped live flu virus in their vaccines to 8 different countries. Then explain to me why you think we should trust these “men of science”.
With all of the so-called safeguards to prevent an accident such as this, it still happened. Or haven’t you heard? You are either naively trusting, or dumb as dogshit. Probably both.
#39–Jim==only an idiot “trusts” anything without verification and some reserve doubt. Only an idiot thinks some exception invalidates a general rule.
What does your exception mean to you Jim?